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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (North Riding) => Topic started by: Ticker on Saturday 13 November 04 19:47 GMT (UK)
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My great grandfather John William Tymon (pictured below holding my granddad) served with the Scarborough Pals Battery 161st Brigade RFA and served in France with the Battery during the First World War.
Does anybody know what this means? What was the Battery? Where can I find out more about it? (I'm in Scarborough and there is no information at the Library)
Any help appreciated
Incidentally for any of you who have followed my posts on the Sedman family of Scarborough John William's wife (also pictured) is Daisy Sedman.
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Hi Ticker
Battery = an artillery subunit of guns, men, and vehicles. As described in the Readers digest WordPower dictionary
Wendy
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Cheers Wendy - I really meant what is this particular battery's history.
Thanks anyway. :D
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Hi Ticker,
There were a number of the "Pals" units, I have not seen anything on the Scarborough one unfortunately.
There are a number of references to Accrington, Sheffield, Leeds etc, perhaps you could try the Imperial War Museum as they have a number of sources.
I think the idea of the "Pals" was that they were usually men that knew each other so there was already a sense of comradeship which would be of benefit in the circumstances they would face.
It was not confined to big towns, in many villages men signed up together and as our memorials show died together, an appropriate subject for today!
Sorry only to provide only general info.
What a superb photo to have of your ancestors.
Trangy
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Thanks Trangy
I'll try the Imperial War Museum as you suggest.
Glad you like the photo - Here's another one of John William Tymon! Everyone says I look very much like him - though you wouldn't know from the caricature!
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Ticker,
Found out a bit more on the 161st Batt RFA, they were raised/formed on outbreak of war Aug 1914 and were part of L Brigade of the 9th Division from Aug 1914 - Feb 1915.
They then became B Battery RFA from Feb 1915 - 11th Nov 1918.
From Aug 1915 - Mar 1918 they were with the Guards Division.
The book I have "Order of Battle of Divisions Part 1" does not cover the 9th Division, or where they were during the "missing" dates sadly I do not have parts 2 & 3 to look further.
My Grandfather William Trangmar was a regular soldier with the Royal Horse Artillery, at the outbreak of war his Battery (J) went in with the British Expeditionary Force on the first day and managed to come out at the end in 1918!
Trangy
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Trangy
Thanks for finding out this additional info for me - much appreciated.
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Ticker, you probably already have, but thry thi site. I highly recommend it.
http://www.1914-1918.net/
Also, the message board is excellent...
http://www.1914-1918.org/forum/index.php
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Hi Amy
Thanks for that. I have tried that site before (some time ago) without success - I'll give it another go now you've mentioned it. :)
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This is a bit of an old thread, but in the interest of adding more to the tale.
161 Brigade RFA was a "Pals" Unit, raised by local communities rather than by the War Office. The other 18 pounder batteries were from York, mainly Rountree employees. The three 18 pounder batteries would be joined by a 4.5 inch howitzer battery raised from Yorkshire miners.
We know quite a bit about 161 Brigade on the First Day of the Somme because the Brigade commander, Lieutenant Colonel A S Cotton wrote about it in the 1930s as "Reflections and recollections" R A Journal volume LXIII No 4. By and large the artillery barrage on the First Day of the Somme gets a bad press. This was the day when nearly 60,000 British troops become casualties, just under 20,000 fatally. But the 161st Brigade, reinforced by other artillery batteries supported the 97th Infantry Brigade in one of the few successful attacks in the northern half of the British Line, capturing the Leipzig redoubt south of Thiepval.
There were two reasons for their success.
1. The Infantry brigade commander had been an observer to the Russo Japanese war. He had noted that the infantry needed to be very close to the artillery barrage to succeed. This his highlanders crawled withion 50 yards of the German trenches before the barrage lifted.
2. One of either Colonel Cotton or the infantry Brigade commander noticed that the Germans were counter attacking and artillery fire was brought back from then barrage which had moved on.
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Thanks Trangy
I'll try the Imperial War Museum as you suggest.
Glad you like the photo - Here's another one of John William Tymon! Everyone says I look very much like him - though you wouldn't know from the caricature!
There were two sorts of unit formed from the hundreds of thousands of men who answered the call for volunteers in 1914 - Kitchener's New Armies.
Some of these were formed by the War Office as extra units. However the sheer numbers of volunteers overwhelmed the Army which lacked the weapons, clothing or accommodation to equip clothe or the officers and NCOs to train them. Many volunteers ended up living under canvas in the autumn and winter of 1914.
Local communities stepped in. Town councils could not supply weapons, but they had access to buildings to accommodate soldiers and places to feed them. These units were the "X town pals." They typically transferred to the War Office sometime later when they would receive an official designation as e.g. YZ Battalion the Loamshire Regiment.
The Scarborough artillery were originally raised as part of a whole division of Kitchener volunteers from North East England, which would eventually be numbered the 31st Division. However, the artillery group was for some reason swapped with that of the 32nd Division raised from men recruited from west of the Pennines, so they supported the 17th (3rd Glasgow) battalion the Highland Light Infantry, the 11th (Lonsdale) Battalion the Border Regiment and the 16th Battlaion (3rd Salford Pals) Lancashire Fusiliers