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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Keziahemm on Saturday 11 November 06 15:06 GMT (UK)

Title: Significance of Plumed Hat - Complete
Post by: Keziahemm on Saturday 11 November 06 15:06 GMT (UK)
Why is this soldier wearing a plumed/feathered hat?  Is it part of ceremonial dress?

The photo was taken in Italy, year unknown,  he was in the Gloucestershire Regiment.
Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: bearkat on Saturday 11 November 06 15:19 GMT (UK)
Perhap she borrowed it from an italian soldier.

See this link

http://www.pbase.com/sproket/image/22275316
Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: Roger Griffiths on Saturday 11 November 06 15:33 GMT (UK)
It's WWI. Definitely British Army, although I did'nt know we were in Italy then. The headdress is Italian Bersaglieri. They were worn by Bersaglieri in WWII. Could be seen in N. Africa.

Roger
Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: Keziahemm on Saturday 11 November 06 16:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Roger,

The Photograph is in the form of a postcard sent from Italy, unfortunately the mark is unreadable (water damaged).  He was a regular in the Gloucestershire Regiment before WWI and during.  Here's another one from Italy in uniform but wearing his cap (standing at back).  Hoping to get his service records from Kew.

Susan
Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: bearkat on Saturday 11 November 06 16:04 GMT (UK)
Love the photo - would be great for a caption competition.  ;)
Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: Keziahemm on Saturday 11 November 06 16:06 GMT (UK)
Perhaps Paul E would like to borrow it  :D

Susan
Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: manmack on Saturday 11 November 06 17:11 GMT (UK)
the 2nd batt was in macedonia and salonika,finished up at lake doiran,mack
Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: Keziahemm on Saturday 11 November 06 18:30 GMT (UK)
Thanks mack

Going to Kew at end of November, hopefully will find his records.

Susan  :)
Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: themonsstar on Sunday 12 November 06 02:29 GMT (UK)
Hi
The 1/4th,1/5th,1/6th(T.F.) & 12th Service (Gloucestershire) Battalions were in Italy. But the Cap badge do's not look like the Gloucestershire Regiment cap badge. The badge was a Sphinx on a tablet 'Egypt' above a laurel spray with a scroll'Gloucestershire' below all in w/m, with no crown on it, your photo shows a badge with a crown ?. unless one of the TF battalions had there own cap badge. 
Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: Keziahemm on Sunday 12 November 06 14:36 GMT (UK)
Hi

He had two Gloucestershire Regiment Nos. 241050 and 3224TF, Mack very kindly told me the TF stood for Territorial Force.  He was in India in 1907, I posted a photo on the restoration board of him in the 1st Gloucestershire Regiment cricket team in Lahore.  We don't know the date when he was in Italy.

Hopefully his service records have survived, surname Stroud, so we can find them at Kew.

Regards

Susan  :)
Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: themonsstar on Sunday 12 November 06 16:56 GMT (UK)
Hi Susan
Going from the Army number 241050, this would put him in the 5th Battalion Gloucester Regiment, I still stand by the lads in the photo are not wearing the Gloucester Regiment Cap Badge.

Do you know the 5th Battalion have a very good book out, its called the "The Fifth Glo'ster Gazette 1915-1919" its a Trench Magazine of the First World War, published in 1993. ISBN 0-7509-0537-9.  It is well worth getting if your man was in the 5th Batt.
Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: OldBraggs on Monday 13 November 06 09:06 GMT (UK)
Stroud is not on the roll of the 1/5th Battalion as recorded March 1915. There is no mention of him in the 1/5th Glosters Gazette or the Battalion War Diary. He is not listed in the 1/5th's cricket team either.
(The picture of the cricket team in Lahore 1907 is 1st Battalion).

The plumed hat is Italian, obviously borrowed it for a photo.
(Oddly enough, 3 Volunteer Bn of the Gloucestershire Regt did wear a plumed hat early in it's history, but this has nothing to do with them).

The cap badges of the three men in the second photo are not Glosters badges. If that is your man then he was serving with another regiment in Italy.

Steve

Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: themonsstar on Monday 13 November 06 09:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Steve
The Army No do,s fall in the range of the 5th Batt 240001-265000, hes being 241050, if this is the man she is looking for. As for the badge it looks like the Suffolk Regiment badge.
Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: Keziahemm on Monday 13 November 06 18:09 GMT (UK)
Hi Steve and Themonsstar

His regiment nos. were from his medal card 372/19

Stroud William C,
Glos. Reg                              Glos. Reg.
No. 3224TF                            241050
Private

We know he was in India in 1907 because of the Cricket photo (1st Gloucestershire Regiment) and another photo taken in Poona also 1907.

We had understood he was in Italy during WWI with the Gloucestershire Regiment.

The visit to Kew we are planning should help.

Regards

Susan  :)

Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: themonsstar on Monday 13 November 06 19:47 GMT (UK)
Hi Susan
There are 3 other W.C. Stroud in the medal cards, also a W.Stroud in the Glos Regt, 15522, & W. Stroud 38626 in the Suffolk Regt, Happy hunting at the National Archives
Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: Keziahemm on Tuesday 14 November 06 17:56 GMT (UK)
Thank you for pointing us in the right direction, think we have the wrong medal card  :-\  Identifying the cap badge as Suffolk Regiment and again speaking to an elderly relative who now says her father may have been in a "London Regiment" during the war! 

The medal card for William Stroud 38626 Suffolk Regiment, on close scrutiny, has in the same box as the word medal "Wm. C" directly under name William! As well as the Victory and British Medal this William Stroud was awarded the Silver War Medal Badge which I just happen to have in my hand  ;)

At least with your help we won't be on a wild goose chase at the NA.

Regards

Susan
Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: themonsstar on Tuesday 14 November 06 18:57 GMT (UK)
Hi Susan
If you can post the MIC on here i will give you the file number for the national archives, for when you go there.
Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: Keziahemm on Tuesday 14 November 06 21:03 GMT (UK)
Does the file need to be ordered before we go, or is it on film?  Also will this file include all his army records from c1900?

Susan  :)
Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: Keziahemm on Sunday 26 November 06 15:30 GMT (UK)
Spent a very fruitful day at the NA yesterday.  William Charles Stroud's army records were in good condition, albeit a bit faint in places.  Also found records for other family members Army and Navy.

Didn't find my grandfather's records (Stanley E. Knight, Worcs. Regiment) looked in WO363/364 must be in the lot that didn't survive WWII  :(

For anyone who hasn't been the National Archives are well worth a visit.

Thanks for all the help.

Regards

Susan  :)

Title: Re: Significance of Plumed Hat
Post by: Indaloman on Sunday 26 November 06 15:44 GMT (UK)
He has 'borrowed' it from the Caribineri, the natonal police force