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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: waiteohman on Saturday 11 November 06 00:54 GMT (UK)
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Hello
I made a trip to the Archives today and discovered in my Great Grandfather's war records that he lists his place of birth as Drummond Street, London, England. Would anyone know what district of London this would fall under or be able to describe the area for me so I can picture it. He was born in 1873.
Thank you,
Linda
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Hi
Officially it's in the Borough of Camden.
If you go to this link and press map, you will see it just north of Euston Road and west north west of Euston station:
http://www.londontown.com/LondonInformation/Underground_Stations/Euston_Square/3d54/
There's also a nice piece here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drummond_Street
Gadget
PS I can vouch for some of the Indian restaurants :)
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Thank you Gadget.
In 1873 would you know how someone would describe the area? Would scuzzy still apply? I don't hold any hope that it is a well off area, as my great grandfather was a British home child. Would anyone know what was in this street in about this time?
Much appreciated,
Linda
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Hi Linda
I'm not too sure about that. There are others who might have more info. In the meantime, it might be worth you looking at this site:
http://www.victorianlondon.org/
Gadget
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Linda
Also look at http://booth.lse.ac.uk/ and ensure you get the correct Drummond Street as there are several.
Biker
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Hi again Linda
If you can get a copy of his birth certificate, it would tell you which Drummond Street it was. The one I gave you is the most well known and I think the most likely.
Some of my line lived around there in the 1890s. They appear to have been a reasonably affluent family, the husband being a factory manager. At least one of the sons became a solicitor.
Gadget
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Great sights and thank you so much. I've spent the morning browsing.
I have briefly extracted and summed up:
In the late 1800s for people living on this street none can be said to rise above poverty, nor are many to be classed as very poor. As a general rule they had a hard struggle to make ends meet, but they were, as a whole, decent steady men, paying their way and bringing up their children respectably. Residents of this street generally had earnings of 18s to 21s per week for a moderate family and included intermittent working labourers, poorer artisans and street sellers. The irregularity of employment may show itself in the week or in the year: Stevedores and waterside porters may secure only one of two days' work in a week, whereas labourers in the building trades may get only eight or nine months in a year. The comfortable received small regular earnings and included factory, dock, and warehouse labourers, carmen, messengers and porters.
It was interesting to find out there was a bank at Drummond, 49, Charing-cross. It has been found from the marriage record that James' parents were Helen Day and Joseph Clark. I did find a Joseph Clark with wife Helen on the 1871 census living in the St. John at Hackney District. I cannot find this couple on the 1881 census. It is known that James had a sister in England; however, grandchildren living don't know her name, so the Amy with this couple looks promising. He lists both parents as dead in his war records. James was born August 18, 1873. I haven't been able to identify him on the BMD yet. Still looking.
Thank you both once again,
Linda
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Hi Linda
I'm glad you enjoyed the read. However, I don't quite understand this sentence
It was interesting to find out there was a bank at Drummond, 49, Charing-cross
As far as I can find there were no Drummond Streets in the Charing Cross area. All the Drummond Streets appear to be either the one I mentioned or smaller streets in the St Pancras area.
Have you asked for a look up for your Clark family on any of the censuses. If not, it might be worth asking on the Look up section of this board.
I shall certainly have a good look for James' birth registration for you. However, there was no legal enforcement (i.e. it wasn't a criminal offence) to register births until 1875 so he might have just not been registered. :(
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
You will find the bank here: http://www.victorianlondon.org/finance/listofbanks.htm
This is the 1871 census reference, RG10/326/p.13 for Joseph & Helen Clark.
Hackney Parish, Parliamentary Borough of Hackney, Ecclesiastic District of St. John at Hackney
Household #60 at 10 Clifden Rd. Joseph is listed as a banker's clerk.
Thanks Gadget, I appreciate it.
Linda
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I can see why. It would be Drummond Bank on Charing St. I misread the sight. :-\ I wanted it to work.
Linda
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Hi Linda
I think I might well have found James and his mother and sister on the 1881 - RG11/199 Folio 100 page 24
Living as lodgers at 4 Elizabeth Street, St Pancras
Ellen Clark, lodger, mar, 52, laundress, b. Middlesex, St Pancras
Ellen, d, 9, b. St Pancras
James, s, 7,b. St Pancras
I think that this is a strong possiblility. Ellen and Helen can often get confused. It is also in the same neighbourhood as Drummond Street - and all the other Drummond Streets. James would have been 7 - his 8th birthday was the following August. You also mentioned that he was a home child. Joseph could have been working away or something.
Gadget
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Wonderful Gadget. This looks promising. Maybe on the 1871 she is Ellen also intead of Helen and I have the wrong one with the 1871 Helen I have is born Oxfordshire.
Linda
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I've been looking on the 1871 and 1891, Linda, but I'm coming up with blanks at the moment. Do you know anything more about James before WW1?
Gadget :-\
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Hi Gadget
In 1890 he came to Canada, I have him on the a passenger list and the 1901 and 1911 census in Palmerston, Ontario. I haven't found him on the 1891 Canada census yet. He arrived in Halifax. He could be anywhere, being in transit. He will only be found on the 1881 British census.
I will see if I can find a death for Joseph Clark between December 1872 and the 1881 census, a marriage of Helen/Ellen Day to a Joseph Clark in this area before 1872 or the birth of the daughter Ellen to see if she also has the father Joseph.
Thanks for your help. It sure helps me not knowing the area.
Linda
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I think this might be the birth registration of Ellen Clark, aged 9 in the 1881:
Ellen Clark, March Q,`1872, Pancras, Vol 1b, page 8.
Gadget
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The nearest that I can find for James is this one, it's possible as Marlylebone was just along from Drummond Street but I'm not too sure about it. There are no suitable registrations for the Dec Q 1873 but registration could have been delayed, not entered into the central GRO register or just not registered at all.
James Clark, Mar Q, 1874, Marylebone, 1a, page 560
Gadget
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There is a death registration for Ellen Clark, Dec Q, 1884, Pancras, Vol 1b, page 116.
Gadget
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Goodness, I do believe I've found Ellen and Joseph in 1861:
RG9/173 Folio 114 page 54
St Giles North, Finsbury, Middlesex
14 Sunker or Sember(?) Court
Joseph Clark, hd, mar, 38, green grocer, b. Hampshire
Ellen Clark, wife, mar, 32, b. London, Middlesex
Ellen's age gives same approx birth date as the 1881 one.
_______________________xxxx_______________________
Now I am totally and utterly confused. This is what I've found in 1871. It's the same person. His wife is the same age but different name, different place of birth and an 11 year old daughter ??? ??? ???
St Giles North, Finsbury
RG10/352 Folio 11 page 16
26 St Earl Street
Joseph Clark, hd,m, 48, Green gorcer Foreman, Hampshire, Christchurch
Margaret, wife, 42, b. Cornwall, Helston
Sophia, d, 11,scholar, b. Middlesex, Upper Holloway
_______________________xxxx_______________________
I don't see Joseph or Margaret Clark in 1881
I don't see Margaret Clark in 1861 - maybe she married Joseph afterwards :-\
Gadget
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My family lived in the area at this time. They had a tripe shop (Butchers Shop) at 133-135 Drummond Street, run by my Gt Gt Gt Grandmother! Harriet Wyatt..I went there recently..it is a Vegetarian Indian Restaurant the building itself much the same as it was in the 1860s- 1880s when they wewre there!!. The Street has a lot of character most of it is early 19thc
one end was demolished to extend Euston Station and its goods sheds.