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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: chester on Friday 10 November 06 09:59 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I'm trying to find the family and parents of Jemima born c1847 in Citty Derry. Her father was John Beattie a school master. Jemima obviously migrated from Ireland to NSW Australia and in March 1868 married William Hamilton in Sydney Australia. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
Chester
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hello chester,can you give me any more info. is that the proper name(jemima) do you know what religon she was? by the way its derry city.
kind regards mary.
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Hi Mary,
Thanks for your email. Jemima had an illegitimate son in NSW in 1867 (prior to marrying in 1868) and the birth records for this illegitimate son recorded Jemima Beatty as the mother. Unfortunately no other detail was given except that Jemima was born in Citty Derre Ireland and was 20yrs old. I only found out about her fathers name and profession from her death certificate.
Cheers
Chester
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hello chester again, i thought you could try these. griffiths valuation-derry 1858-59. tithe applotment, and irish genealogy (this is only an index) they are all on line.
sorry thats the best i can do. but i will keep looking.
good luck mary.
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Are there two Jemima Beattys who married two William Hamiltons in that year? To quote from the Sydney Herald of 20th May, 1868:
HAMILTON-BEATTY-March 2Bth, by the Rev. Dr. Bailoy, of the Free Church of England, Mr. William Hamilton, to Jemima, daughter of Mr. Benjamin Beatty, both of Smithfield, near Parramatta.
Jemima was born in Australia (prob. 1846) and her parents were originally Scottish. Her father was transported, her mother (Jane Wells) went on assisted passage. I've traced the father back to Canongate, Dumfries and found his parents and grandparents, but earlier than that the trail runs cold. There's a full transcript of the father's trial at the Old Bailey available on-line.
I suspect that the Jemima Beatty you've found is a separate Jemima Beatty, but it doesn't sound like the one who married William Hamilton in 1868. I've been looking through a lot of the Sydney newspapers of this period and the Beatty (or Beattie - the two get used interchangeably, even for the same individual) surname is very common. Jemima isn't all that unusual a name in the 19th century (and to confuse matters, could also be used as a nickname, so the birth certificate might not register it) so it's entirely possible that there were two or more Jemima Beattys in a city the size of Sydney.
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Thank you for your comments.
My investigation has found that Jemima Beatty paid 3 pound 9 shillings and 6 pence on 31/12/1865 to emigrate to Queensland. Jemima was from Portadown and she came out to Queensland on the "Light of the Age".
The "Mariners Records"indicate that the "Florence Irving"departed from Brisbane to Sydney on 13 June 1867 and the 2 passengers of interest on this ship were Jemima Beatty and Sarah Beatty. Is Sarah , Jemima's sister who had previously emigrated to Brisbane and because Jemima was pregnant, decided to go with her sister to Sydney? Jemima would have been heavily pregnant at this time, as she had a son William John born on 18 July 1867 at Dog Trap Rd (Woodville Rd) Parramatta NSW. On her sons birth certificate, there are no fathers details. Jemima's age was 20 yrs and place of birth was "Citty Derre, Ireland". The marriage cert I have for Jemima and a William Hamilton was dated 28/3/1868, spinster & bachelor & both from living at Smithfield near Parramatta. I think I assumed that this date appeared to be correct. Information from my late mother revealed that William Hamilton (snr) worked on the railways. Jemima's son, William John obviously adopted his step fathers surname, "Hamilton".
Jemima and William Hamilton appears to have had 10 children commencing 1870.
Now that you have mentioned it, possibly there were two Jemima and william Hamiltons, although it is rather confusing. Do you have any further thoughts?
Chester.
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This is getting more confusing!
Quick answer for the moment. There is no NSW birth record of a Benjamin Beattie (or Beatty) having a daughter called Jemima. However, there are records of a Benjamin Beattie and Jane having three daughters: Georgiana (b. 1834), a Jane E (born 1846) and a Georgina (b 1854).
I think we can take it as read that a marriage took place on March 28th, 1868 between a William Hamilton and a Jemima Beattie.
There are two obvious explanations:
1. Jane E Beattie (b 1846) and Jemima Beattie are the same woman. This fits the NSW records and the newspaper announcement. BUT: can we accept that Jane E was also known as Jemima?
2. 'Irish Jemima' and Jemima Beattie are the same woman. BUT: why is she described in the newspaper announcement as the daughter of Benjamin Beattie, because clearly she isn't? Did Benjamin take pity on her and adopt her? This is not as impossible as it first sounds.
Must go to a meeting now - I will think more on this and I hope write later today. Incidentally, I can tell you a shedload about the Hamiltons as I'm descended from Alfred Hamilton (one of William's kids).
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Did a bit more checking up - we can forget the idea that Benjamin adopted Irish Jemima, because he'd died eight years earlier in 1860!
Also, looking at the dates, Irish Jemima must have been pregnant before setting out for Australia. So this makes it very unlikely that William Hamilton was the father and the naming of the child as William John is pure coincidence (and bear in mind also these are very common names, so it's not all that big a coincidence).
I also doubt if the Beatties in Australia would claim Irish Jemima with a child born out of wedlock as their daughter and then announce this in a newspaper marriage announcement. Sydney at that time was still a relatively small (so everyone knew everyone else) and with a fairly conservative and 'respectable' middle class - I seriously doubt if folks would have tolerated such a thing. Therefore, I think that when Jemima is announced in the wedding announcement as the daughter of Benjamin Beattie she really is the biological and legitimate daughter of Benjamin Beattie.
Thus, I think on the balance of things that Irish Jemima is not the spouse of William Hamilton. Instead, the spouse is Jane E Beattie, who for reasons now lost, decided to call herself Jemima (this isn't all that odd a thing - e.g. one of my other ancestors was born Vivienne Irene, but always seems to have called herself Brightie). All that is required to fit the evidence (the formal NSW records, the newspaper announcement, etc) is that Jane E Beattie later called herself Jemima. And as I've just said, this isn't all that odd a thing to do.
My hunch on what happened to Irish Jemima is this. She got pregnant in Ireland. To avoid scandal, her father packed her off to Australia to have the child. There are a LOT of Beatties in Sydney at this time, and it's not impossible that there was a close relative out there. Jemima was met by Sarah on the last leg of the journey and they went to Sydney where William John was born. Irish Jemimah then went back to Ireland or otherwise simply disappeared off the radar. I think she quite possibly went back to Ireland and the child was adopted, possibly by a relative. Indeed, it's not impossible that 'our' Beatties were the adopting family. I've a shrewd suspicion that as Benjamin and others prospered, other family members were invited to come and live in Australia. There's the occasional mention in the Sydney Morning Herald about the death of a Beattie, 'late of Dumfries' (i.e. where Benjamin Beattie was born), which tends to support this idea.
Incidentally, absolutely the only marriage of a Jemima Beatty (or Beattie) I can find in NSW is the one to William Hamilton.
If this sounds plausible, I can gladly send you what I know about Jane E Beattie (and more particularly her father, who makes for interesting reading).
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Your comments are very interesting and sound plausable. You may contact me at
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Thanks for your input
Chester :)
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I can tell you all about Benjamin Bell Beattie and Jane Wells. They had 5 children born in Australia and Jemima is not one of them.
William Beattie b. 1835 married Catherine Delaney
Madeline Cecilia Beattie b. 1843 married William Barnett
Jane Elizabeth Beattie b. 1846 married Joseph Chatfeild Clarke (my Husbands greatgreat grandparents)
Elsie Beattie b. 1847 married John Driscoll
Georgiana Beattie b. 1854 married Isaac Levy
Benjamin Bell Beattie was a convict he came in the Ship "Georgiana II"
married Jane Wells in Sydney 1841
Jane Wells a free woman came on the 'Bussorah Merchant' in 1833
Benjamin was married before in London 1822 to a Martha Richardson. I do not know of any children.
I have nothing on Benjamin Beattie's parents or grandparents. I would very much like to know anything about his life in Dumfries Scotland where he was born.
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I would love to have any info regarding Benjamin Beattie's Scottish family
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Pernille, you will find that there are TWO Benjamin Beatties (or Beatty - the spelling is variable). For a while I was led on a wild goose chase in chasing 'your' Benjamin Beattie thinking he was my ancestor, and I accumulated some information on him and the rest of the family before I realized my mistake. I will try to dig out what I have on him if you want to PM me.
My immediate recollection is that there is little to tell about his earlier life because the records simply aren't there, but I will check. However, when I did my search I wasn't aware of Scotland's People, a very good website of Scottish BMD records. The one snag with Scotland's People is that it is a pay site (though initial searches are free, you will have to pay to see the detailed records).
For the record, Chester and I got in contact and have worked out the background (in considerable detail) of the other Benjamin Beatty. In brief, he was an Irish schoolmaster who came to Australia in his fifties along with the rest of his family. He worked in and around Brisbane (and from his official records, doesn't seem to have been particularly good at his job and possibly had a drink problem). Jemima got pregnant by a Mr Hamilton from Sydney (we have no positive proof, but we suspect Mr Hamilton was a trainee teacher working under Mr Beatty). Jemima had the first child out of wedlock, and then married Mr Hamilton. From all we can gather, the couple prospered and Mr Hamilton ended his days as Alderman Hamilton and was a fruit grower living near Sydney. We have very strong circumstantial evidence that the Hamiltons and the Beatty families knew each other before all this through a close relative of Benjamin, called Hugh Beattie (he changed the spelling of his name when he arrived in Australia). Hugh was either Benjamin's brother or a close cousin. Hugh was one of the earliest wine growers in Australia and one of his grandchildren was Mary Gilmore, a rather famous poet and writer whose face adorns the Australian 10 dollar note!
If anyone is reading this thread who wants more details of this branch, please PM me.
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Thank you for your reply. How do i PM you. I would like to have all the detail of you research as i could have missed something.
regards
pernille
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Hi,
To use the PM system click on the green scroll under the name of the person you wish to contact and you can then send private messages.
Regards
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Thank you that is easy
regards
Pernille
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Hello,
I have been doing some searching for an ancestor of mine named Benjamin Beattie and I have managed to stumble into this chat.
My great-great-great grandmother was called Mary Beattie, her father was Benjamin Beattie and her mother Sarah Robertson.
On Mary's birth certificate in 1863, Benjamin is listed as deceased, and having been a Soldier in the Royal West India Rangers.
In the 1851 Census, he is not there and his wife is declared a widow. In his wife's death record, she is the widow of Benjamin Beattie, Chelsea Pensioner.
However I cannot find any death in those years, nor a record for a Chelsea Pensioner of that name in those years.
I wondered if somehow he had been convicted in London and then transported and he had his family informed that he was dead, rather than them know that he had been sent abroad.
A long shot I know, but you mention that he was born in Scotland, so it started to sound more and more likely.
Anyway, anything that anyone can tell me and shed any light would be much appreciated.
Best
Chris
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Hello Lipscombe
I am very interested in any information you might be able to share regarding Jemima Beatty. I feel very certain that she is my husband's great, great great grandmother that I've managed to track down through a somewhat exhausting search. Her first born son William John b.1867 on Dog Trap road married a Sarah Elizabeth Burless (B: 1871 in Wollongong) in Sydney 1891. From what I have managed to find out without any real degrees of certainty is that Jemima's father Benjamin immigrated to Queensland aboard the "Queen of the Colonies" 1866 (I think that was the name of the ship)! Jemima in 1865 aboard the "Light of Age" also to Queensland. Then on the 13th June 1867 with her sister Sarah travelled from Brisbane to Sydney aboard the "Florence Irving".
Hopefully we are talking about the same Jemima Beatty, and I would be more than interested if you or anyone else has more information. Thank you.
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Having found this website by chance I hope that I can learn a bit more about Jemima Hamilton née Beattie [or Beatty] from you. I am a descendant of Edward Hamilton (1882-1963), last-born child of Jemima and William. The last posting on this site seems to have been 24 November 2013; I hope that there is still someone who can help.
I have found Jemima on the passenger list for the “Florence Irving” from Brisbane to Sydney, arriving 13 June 1867. Also travelling on that ship is Sarah Beattie; perhaps they were sisters or otherwise related. There is no William Hamilton on board.
However, I cannot find a passenger list for “Light of the Age” leaving the United Kingdom in late1865, on which it has been said that Jemima travelled to Australia, and as a paying passenger. (Chester 2 February 2010). However, I have found a reference to the arrival in Queensland of “Light of the Age” through Trove, in The Queenslander, Brisbane, 31 March 1866, page 4. The article refers to the ship’s passage from the Clyde on December 10 1865 and arrival in Queensland in March 1866; only the five saloon passengers are named; the other passengers, some 507 immigrants, are identified as 383 males,124 females, and included 58 Irish persons. There is also a health officer's report from the ship’s arrival Moreton Bay: the Votes and Proceedings of the Legislative Assembly of Queensland, Report dated 27th of March 1866.
Jemima appears to have spent April 1866 to early June 1867 in Queensland; precisely where is unknown. Her son William was born on 18 July 1867, and so is likely to have been conceived in Queensland.
How and why Jemima arrived at Dog Trap Road in time for the birth of her son is a puzzle; perhaps there was s “lying-in” institution there and she had been informed of its existence; she most likely travelled from the port of Sydney, possibly by train, to Parramatta; the first public railway line in NSW was built in 1854 from Sydney to Parramatta Junction, which was located where Granville is today; the birth was attended by a Dr Pringle and a Mrs Hodgson (possibly a midwife).
It is possible that Sarah accompanied Jemima to the Parramatta region, because the NSW Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages index records the marriage of Sarah A. Beatty to Alexander Matheson in Parramatta in1867. Alexander Matheson and Sarah Ann Beatty had a son, Alfred Alexander Matheson, in Queensland in 1871 May; the child died in November 1871.
There is no census for this period because, according to NSW BDM, a fire at the Garden Palace in 1882 destroyed the 50 years of census records held there.
How Jemima came to meet William Hamilton in the Parramatta region is also a puzzle. He had a farm and/or orchard there so perhaps Jemima was seeking work; she had been a domestic servant.
I would also be interested in information of William Hamilton as alderman: [Lipscombe 10 February 2011]