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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hertfordshire => Topic started by: DCS on Monday 23 October 06 23:32 BST (UK)
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I am researching the Garnett family of Kimpton and the Cutler and Cato families of Tring in Hertfordshire. Many of them were canvas weavers and some of them owned weaving establishments and property. The Cutler descendants used the name Garnett as first or second names right down to the 1900s.
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Dont want to raise hopes, but some of my family worked at the Silk Mills between New Mill and Tring, as canvas weavers and silk weavers. The mill I believe was started by the Rothschilds. Havent come across your names, ours were Foster, which I am just getting into
Marton
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Hi there,
Thanks for your message. I believe the Rothschilds came after the Cutler canvas weavers. George Cutler was the owner of the largest canvas weavers in Tring with 20 looms and 40 men and boys working for him at Frogmore End Tring. He died in 1845 and the Catos took over the weaving industry.
Please tell me more about the Rothschilds weaving. I wasn't aware that they did canvas weaving too. Can you verify this? Any stories that have been passed down as to working conditions etc?
Best wishes
Diana
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Hello Diana, I worked on one of my mother's "myths" as they were known!
However, since looking more closely, find that her maternal gr grandfather did work variously as a canvas weaver- acotton weaver and wool weaver, whilst his wife was a silk throwster. I looked on the Tring website, and found some info on the Mills. My mother had it in her mind that her ancestors came of heugenot origins , but I doubt it, I think the Fosters were of Tring stock, but havent got very far as yet. please keep in touch if you find any more.
Marton
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Hi Marton,
Can you give me some full names and dates of anyone in your tree who came from Tring - especially if they worked in the canvas mills. I can check my data then to see if any there are any names in common.
Regards,
Diana
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Thank you ,Diana, so far I have-
James Foster b.1853, Westminster m. Elizabeth Priest
John Foster b. @ 1828 Tring
William Foster b.@ 1791 Tring
Iknow that James was a weaver ,but I dont think we have any earlier than that. Any info you might have I would be grateful to know.
Marton
James had a daughter, Emily who was my gr. ma
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Hi Marton,
I have found these records - have you got these?
In 1881 census living at 33 Brook st Tring:
Information removed due to possible copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.Living at 30 Brook street were:
who might be related as they were living so close.
I found James's Marriage:
Marriage Sep 1872
Foster James Berkhampstead
Priest Elizabeth Berkhampstead
I also found a record for William Foster (b.abt 1795 of Tring) and his wife Mary (b.abt.1799 of Tring - surname unknown) they had following children (all of Tring):
Lucy - christened 6 May 1821
Anne - christened 20 April 1823
Caroline - christened 25 June 1826
John - christened 10 Aug 1828
So the query now is: If the Mary Becket living with James the wife's mother why is her name Becket and not Priest (Elizabeth Priest)
I recognise both Becket and Priest, more so Becket as Becket is connected to Cutler by marriage somewhere as there is a boy called Cutler Becket in the tree. The Beckets were also in the weaving business as you can see by the Herts website you have already read I believe.
Please get back to me with your thoughts on the above information. Hope it has been of some use.
Diana
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Many thanks Diana, I have James & Elizabeth, also father John,b. Tring,and William and Mary,am unsure where to go next. I think James may have married twice, so must send for m. cet. to find out.Elizabeth Priest's mother was Mary Priest in 1861, with two children but Elizabeth is firmly listed as illegitimate.Mary must have married again by the time she lives with J & E . I haven't yet got to why the Rothschilds might have been involved, they may have been part of the New Mill ? Also an Italian lady was supposd to have married into the family, I have her warming pan! but haven't traced her yet. :)
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I knew I had seen Priest somewhere - and I have already mentioned Cutler Becket to you - look what I've just found!
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details[/color]
I think you might just be connected to the Cutler family I am in contact with! How I don't know - but I do believe they had an Italian lady in their family too. I will ask around.
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By the way Marton - how did you happen to receive the Italian lady's warming pan? Intriguing!
Diana
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:)Good heavens! what a find! The warming pan came from my mother, thru the foster line I think and it was supposed to belong to her gt ? mother who worked in the Black Boy Inn on the gt. Bath Road, where I know not! All her families came from Tring, Ivinghoe , Marsworth and Kings Langley. Thanks so much, I will await more ! Perhaps it was a Cutler Beckett warming pan!
Marton
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Hi Marton,
I've done a bit more research - and found a couple of things on my tree.
I found the following records which may - or may not - be relative to your Fosters:
Sarah Eversley married Cutler Beckett on 21/9/1822
Mary Priest married Cutler Beckett on 11/9/1866
I shouldn't think there were 2 Cutler Becketts - but there might have been! Both were marriages in Tring. It could be that he married twice - as Mary Priest did.
On my tree I have a John Becket who married Sarah Cutler on 27/1/1795. They had possibly Elizabeth Beckett b.8/1/1801 (c. 25/12/1849), and possibly Thomas Beckett c. 7/8/1796 and possibly George Becket c. 4/11/1798 (d. 11/10/1801)
All in Tring. I say possibly as the Family Search records say the parents were John Becket and Sarah who were the parents of these children - so I presume they were John Beckett and Sarah Cutler. I am wondering if Cutler Beckett was their son too (connecting their surnames) as I can't find any record of Cutler Beckett's birth. A lot of the records at this time went missing.
Sarah Cutler was daughter of John Cutler (B.1748) and Ann Bull (b.1752) who were married on 11/10/1773. She had brothers and sisters, the majority of whom went into the canvas weaving business and owned properties etc in Akeman Street, and Frogmore End. So I think the connection is via Cutler Beckett. The family at this point gets very interesting, all about the canvas weaving etc and the various connections between the big families in Tring at that time.
Have you any more names/information that you could tell me as there might be more connections? Who came from Ivinghoe and Bucks for instance?
Anyway, I'm tired now after all that searching :)
I will be in touch again
Diana
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:)Dear Diana, once again ,thank you.
re Cutlers-not a family I had thought to persue,I think Mary Priest is "ours", there were also Wiggington connections, and the name of Prior comes somewhere.Have sent for m. certs.
The Ivinghoe name is Deighton, and the Kings Langley /Abbots Langley is Jordan. I found a connection for Nathaniel Rothschild and the silk mill, I think he tried to keep it going when the silk trade collapsed?
When I can talk to my daughter to see if she has any more about it all I'll be in touch
Mary
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:)Hello Diana, yes, Cutler did mary Mary in 1866, he-65, she,45 bothwidowed.so that solves that one. Have 2 ref. no's for James and Elizabeth's marriage, so that one I will need to probe
best wishes Mary
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Hi Mary,
Have you got the marriage certificate for Cutler and Mary? Please let me know if you get it as it should have the parents of Cutler on it. I spoke to my contact about the 'Italian Lady' and it is actually someone who is living. So not your 'Italian Lady' - just a coincidence.
I was at the archives place in Islington the other day but there is no trace of Cutler Becket in 1841 - hence no birth record. However, I wonder if he was actually christened something else but known afterwards as Cutler?
Keep in touch
Diana
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Hi Diana, yes.
Cutler Beckett, labourer, father John Beckett labourer
Mary Priest ------- father John Law
Married parish church Tring 11th Sep. 1866.
I'll keep searching
best wishes
Mary
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Hi Mary,
Then that means that it looks likely my Sarah Cutler who married John Beckett in 1795 were the parents of Cutler Beckett.
Now why is the father of Mary Priest called John Law??
Would you care to correspond via email Mary? I could send you the Cutler tree then so you can see how the canvas weaving business all evolved. My email address is: Email address removed. Please use our secure personal messaging system to exchange personal information.
Hope to hear from you
Diana
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:)Yes Please
Mary
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Hello, my Cato side of the family hailed from Tring and were canvas weavers.
As far back as I can find I have James Cato c1804 married to Elizabeth ? c1804
On the 1871 census he is living (a widower) in Tring and has his granddaughter Annie living with him, (her mother was Elizabeth Cato b1831 Tring) and she went on to marry my g grandfather in Lewisham London
I have so far been unable to go back any further.
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Hi Xanth,
I have a huge tree for the Cutlers, Garnetts including the Catos of Tring, Herts. Joseph Garnett's will indicates that his canvas weaving business be left to George Cutler and also Gideon Cato. And that's how I believe the canvas weaving passed on to the Catos. Was Gideon part of your tree?
Regards
Diana
Hello, my Cato side of the family hailed from Tring and were canvas weavers.
As far back as I can find I have James Cato c1804 married to Elizabeth ? c1804
On the 1871 census he is living (a widower) in Tring and has his granddaughter Annie living with him, (her mother was Elizabeth Cato b1831 Tring) and she went on to marry my g grandfather in Lewisham London
I have so far been unable to go back any further.
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Hi Diana, I have yet to find the parents of 'my' James Cato c1804. I have him on the 1851 census with wife Elizabeth and 9 children, occupation canvas weaver,none of whom were called Gideon. Was Gideon an earlier Cato ? and do you have my James on your tree. I have found on the 1841 a James and Elizabeth Cato at Ivinghoe and did wonder whether or not they were the parents of James 1804, I also found on IGI a marriage for a James And Elizabeth Goodson in 1794 which would be about the right time but again no proof of their connection to James. so any help if you have it would be appreciated
Christine
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Hi Christine,
Take a look at this site: http://www.hertfordshire-genealogy.co.uk/data/places/places-t/tring/tring-canvas-weaving.htm
You will see lovely photos of the canvas weaving shops as well as reference to the Catos.
I don't have a James on my tree but I don't have a son or wife for Gideon Cato and so he could well be a son of his. I do have a will for Gideon Cato though which leaves his possessions to wife Mary and then son Gideon. Perhaps buying the son Gideon's will might provide clues to his wife/children?
Looking at the 1881 census James was a widower living on his own at 11 Charles Street. Next door to him at No 12 is Charles Cato, canvas manufacturer (his son?) wife Sarah and children charles and Sarah born interestly in Kent. If you look at the website above it does state that there was a canvas shop at no 12 Charles Street.
I am out today and going away tomorrow until next Friday so can't go further into this at present but perhaps when I return I will look into this more.
Kind regards
Diana
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Hello, my Cato side of the family hailed from Tring and were canvas weavers.
As far back as I can find I have James Cato c1804 married to Elizabeth ? c1804
On the 1871 census he is living (a widower) in Tring and has his granddaughter Annie living with him, (her mother was Elizabeth Cato b1831 Tring) and she went on to marry my g grandfather in Lewisham London
I have so far been unable to go back any further.
Hi
I am also related to the Cato's from Tring. Does anyone have an Edwin Cato born c1834 in Tring in their records? I have been unable to confirm who his parents were. In the 1841 census he was living with James and Elizabeth Cato who sound like a different set to yours as they were both aged 65 (b c1776) so I wonder if they are his grandparents rather than his parents.
Any help greatfully received.
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Diana , in your last post you mentioned buying a copy of a will. Could you tell me how you go about this please, or do you know if the will could be viewed at a records office??
regards Christine
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Diana , in your last post you mentioned buying a copy of a will. Could you tell me how you go about this please, or do you know if the will could be viewed at a records office??
regards Christine
Hi Christine,
Did you give me your email address: I can send you the will I already have for the canvas weavers. If you are able to access London then the wills office is in Holborn. You just go there and you check through the large ledgers they have and then pay £5 for one. Unfortunately, the Canvas Weavers won't be there as there would be earlier. I think we got the will from the National Archives which have moved to Kew now. I expect you can try online to see if there is one available - check online at the National Archives.
Regards
Diana