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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: KathyM on Tuesday 09 November 04 17:35 GMT (UK)
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I have booked to go to the Leeds Archives in two weeks time - if anyone would like a free - look-up in the parish records (Leeds, Wakefield, Bradford, areas)....preferably with a specific church & rough idea of dates !
I will spend the morning doing look-ups ! let me know !
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Hello.I have many Leeds relatives.The ones I need There baptisms.Are Samuel Dodd.Son of James dodd and Mary nee Binns About 1825.I couldn't find them in the Parish church, and I am not at home at the moment. If you come upon any Dodd names while you are searching records I would very pleased. Needle in a haystack I know but strange things do happen.I live in Nottingham.So I can look up To.Bye
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I will make a note to look for Dodds.....
Any idea about location in Leeds ? There are dozens of churches......generally many people married at Leeds Parish Church, but baptisms were performed locally....eg. Beeston, Armley, Holbeck ??? Does it tell you where they were from on their marriage details ? This would narrow it down a bit & make it more likely that I could find something !
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Kathy, thats really good of you :)
All Births
Joseph Roberts born abt 1817 in Burley
Mary Lister abt 1835 St Mary's Hunslet Her father was called Edward but i have no idea what her mother was called.
Many thanks
Christine
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Hello.
First, the story:
We live in France, in the Somme region in fact, and my wife (who is French) gave birth to our second child on Sunday (7/11/04). During her labour, the anaesthetist was chatting quite animatedly, and told us that his wife’s grandfather was English, and married and settled in France after WW1.
Neither he nor his wife speak English, but they are very keen on tracing their English ancestry, and asked if I could help. In the first instance, they want to trace their family line back, but of more importance to them is to trace any descendants of their English family who might be around today.
The anaesthetist’s wife’s grandfather was SAM SPENCER, born in Leeds, Yorkshire, on 3rd November 1893. His parents were apparently called JAMES SPENCER and ADA BARSTOW. Unfortunately, they have no documents to confirm spellings. It is also though that he had a sister called EVA who became a nurse.
SAM died in France on 12th September 1953.
I have looked on the 1901 census and the Yorkshire BMD index, but can’t find a match.
Can you help?
Thankyou
Neil Cartwright
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Congratulations ! Boy or girl ? What name have you chosen ?
I will try to find something for your 'friend'.
So far - I have managed to find the marriage in the index - which was actually in Bradford - not Leeds.
March 1891 Bradford 9b 193 James Spencer & Ada Barstow
The spellings seem to be correct ...... I still haven't managed to find them on the census' though. You may want to order the above certificate - but I will try to find it in the Parish Records - although there are many possible churches in Bradford !
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FANTASTIC! :D
Thankyou VERY VERY much!!!!! ;D
I can tell him we've made a good start when I visit maternité this afternoon!
It's a boy - nearly 4 kilos. My wife had 3 names in mind - Jacob, Moïse and Etienne. (Jacob, Moses and Stephen). She kept checking the local papers for births, because if any of those names had come up in the 9 months, they would be crossed off the list. Anyway, Jacob and Etienne appeared, so ours is Moïse. (It was my favourite anyway. We've got an 18 month old called Marthe, and Marthe and Mo go quite nicely together). However, when I went into the local school yesterday, where I work, after the kids had said 'Felicitations', a little girl put her hand up to ask the baby's name. I proudly said 'Moïse'. Silence. :-\
I think if I'd have said 'Britney', 'Wayne', or 'Dylan', the reaction would have been much more positive!
Anyway, thankyou again. If you can find any more, that would be wonderful!
Neil Cartwright ;)
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Hi
Taking into account the marriage found in 1891 this could very well be the 1891 census for the couple. I have had a look through for a James and Ada Spencer and this is the only pair. Of course somehow it would need verifying.
1891 census
address 5 Union Street
Elizabeth Spencer, head, widow, age 50 born Lancs Manchester
Jas Spencer, son, married, age 23, framer born Yorkshire Cleckheaton
Ada Spencer,daughter in law, age 23,card filler up, born Yorkshire Cleckheaton
Eliza Jane Spencer, daughter, age 19,factory operation, born Yorkshire Ceckheaton
Sam Spencer, son, age 16, factory operation, born Yorkshire Cleckheaton
John Richard Spencer, son, age 14, ???? (cant read) boy, born Yorkshire Cleckheaton
Civil parish: Cleckheaton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Johns
Town:
County: Yorkshire
Source information: RG12/3610
Registration district: Bradford
Sub registration district: Cleckheaton
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Folio: 92
Page: 26
It seems very likely this is the correct family, with James having a brother Sam and then naming his son that.
I will have a look and see what else I can find.
Nicky
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Nicky,
Thankyou very very much! ;) :D
Neil
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Hi again
Sams birth in 1893, the district North Bierley covers Cleckheaton.
Name: Spencer, Sam
Record Type: Births
Quarter: December
Year: 1893
District: North Bierley
County: West Riding of Yorkshire
Volume: 9b
Page: 156
I dont have access to the Yorkshire 1901 census,only the free search and found these
Sam Spencer age 7 born Cleckheaton,living in Cleckheaton
James Spencer age 33 born Cleckheatong, teamer at tannery carm (dont know what a carm is,could be transcript error)
Ada Spencer age 33 born Cleckheaton
There are a few other children that could be theirs but I would advise asking for a full lookup from someone who has the census.
Nicky
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The 1901 census info is :
At Springfield Terrace, Cleckheaton
James Spencer Head 33 Teamer at Tannery Carn?
Ada Spencer wife 33
Mary A Spencer dau 8
Sam Spencer son 7
Lizzie Spencer dau 4
All born Cleckheaton (Reg. in North Bierley fits !)
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Hi Kathy and Nicky,
Again, thankyou very very much!! The anaesthetist is going to be delighted with this.
The next thing I've got to do is find James Spencer's father, husband of Elizabeth, and their marriage. This seems like it might be a Manchester connection. (People moved around in the mid 1800s much more than expected!)
Anyway, one final question: how do I go about casting forward to find relations who might be alive today?
Thankyou again for all of your help!
Neil
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This looks like the family in 1881, transcription error missed the R off Spencer. But names fit etc.
Household:
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Richard SPENCE Head M Male 47 Cleckheaton, York, England Teamster Carter
Elizabeth SPENCE Wife M Female 42 Manchester, Lancashire, England
James SPENCE Son Male 13 Cleckheaton, York, England Scholar
Eliza Jane SPENCE Daur Female 9 Cleckheaton, York, England Scholar
Sam SPENCE Son Male 6 Cleckheaton, York, England Scholar
John Richard SPENCE Son Male 3 Liversedge, York, England
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Source Information:
Dwelling Jachin Street
Census Place Cleckheaton, York, England
Family History Library Film 1342059
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 4429 / 82
Page Number 33
Nicky
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Wow! Thankyou again, Nicky!
Needless to say, when the anaesthetist called in this evening, he was absolutely delighted!
Wonderful stuff!
Thankyou
Neil
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Many thanks for the offer. I'm looking for Elfrida Castelow who was born around 1811 in Leeds. She married Thomas Pickering in 1830 in Leeds Parish Church. If you could find her baptism, I'd be forever grateful as I've drawn a complete blank with her.
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Hia. I am looking for relatives of William Fox of Rothwell who marrieda Mary Cripps also relatives of hers. I believe her father was Charles Richard Cripps and her mother Sarah Ann Carter. She was born in Middlesex but I understand he died in Hunslet area, having remarried in 1871. Any help re any of these people would be great.
Barbara
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What a wonderful offer!
My Great Grandfather JOSEPH BARKER married MARY HELLIWELL on 12 Jan 1786, probably Huddersfield, according to a genealogist we employed many years ago. Joseph was Christened 28 Mar 1766, father John Barker, St. Peter Leeds.
It would be wonderful if you could find any further information from records.
Thanks, DelB
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I will try my best !
I am going a week on Monday - 22nd - will let you know on Tuesday what I managed to find.
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HI
It would be great if you could look up a marriage of Samuel Lawson and Mary about 1805 Rawdon or Guiseley
Could you also check Thornton Bradford for a Joseph Robinson born abt 1851 the illegitemate child of Susannah Jackson
thanks
JJdownunder
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It would be great if you could look up the marriage of Samuel Blunt Dec 1858 St. Peter's Leeds. Who did he marry ( he was my great grandfather and he seems to have had a lot of wives). Also, can you find the baptism of Frederick Rayner Blunt around 1868, John William Blunt around 1862 and Harry Miller Blunt around 1871. Any details, particularly who their mothers were, would be gratefully received.
Hope I haven't missed the boat!
Dawn
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Hello Thanks for your reply.I should know the church they were married in.It was the parish church of Leeds.I am not at home at the moment but I will look up all my info and get back to you.In 1841 census they lived in Buithier Court or Butter Court hard to dicipher.Sylviao.
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Hi,
If you come accross a William Rowntree Born c1815 in Bradford with father as Thomas Rowntree could you make a note of it for me please.
Sorry for the lack of info but thats about all I know.
Thanks
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I will do my best ....... some may be easier than others !
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HI KathyM,
Is it too late to request a look up?
If not, could I possibly trouble you to look up the baptism of Christopher DAWSON in Leeds in about 1779? I'm afraid that rough birth date is all I have to go on. It id calculated fro the 1841/1851 census, which is also where I got his birthplace from.
Many thanks.
Amy
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Hi Amy
I'm going next Monday ..... I will take all these with me, and see what I can get through. I usually go every other week - I am transcribing ! - but sometimes it's a nice change to do some research !
I will look in look in the Parish Church records for your Christopher Dawson -
do you have his parents names (it will most likely just give the father at that date!) ...and also, any siblings ?
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I will look in look in the Parish Church records for your Christopher Dawson -
do you have his parents names (it will most likely just give the father at that date!) ...and also, any siblings ?
Many thanks Kathy!!
This is a new line for me, so unfortunatly I can't tell you any more info. But I hope Christopher is unusual enough to make your search easy.
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Hi Kathym,
I am not asking for a lookup but if during your searches you could just keep an eye open for an Oswald Sturdy baptism circa 1710 and a marriage circa 1734, I would be extremely grateful.
Although the IGI shows some Sturdy families at Leeds I have no reason to think there is a Leeds connection, in fact I have no idea where he came from except it wasn't Nun Monkton.
Oswald had four children baptised in Nun Monkton, Oswald & Thomas both on 21 Jul 1736, Susannah 25 Jun 1739 & Elizabeth 21 Nov 1743. According to the researcher (paid) neither Oswald's marriage or baptism were found in Nun Monkton PRs. There was no mention of the mother's name in the baptism entries.
Two Sturdy burials were found in Nun Monkton, Thomas 25 Jul 1726 & Oswald 6 Mar 1742, both were Gardeners.
Susannah Sturdy is my ancestor, she married William Adams at Gt Waltham, Essex in 1766.
Thanks.
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I will keep a look out for Oswald Sturdy......
On the IGI for Nun Monkton, besides the 4 children of Oswald you mentioned...there is :
Thomas Sturdy (father) of - Elizabeth Ch. 1691 and Jane 1696
acc. to the info..he was born/ch at Whixley 1665 (parents James Sturdy & Agnis Sugden and married a Margaret from Kilburn.
Also, Thomas & Margaret had a son ch. at Kilburn in 1685....
As Whixley is only about 4 miles from Nun Monkton......I would take my search there if I were you !
Also......this may be the Thomas buried at Nun Monkton ???
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Thanks for that info Kathy, especially the Whixley tip, after reading your reply Whixley looks very interesting. I did get quite a few Sturdys from the IGI but somehow missed the Whixley Sturdys, those I found were mainly St Peters, Leeds (loads) and Kilburn.
It did seem likely that the Thomas buried in Nun Monkton was related to Oswald but since there appeared to be no other info such as age attached to the burial entry for Thomas, it's down to guesswork.
Do you know where in Yorkshire the PRs for Whixley are held?
My wife and I are planning another visit to the UK around February 2006, hopefully to celebrate my mother's 100th birthday, I told her that she has to hang on until then ;D We will be staying with my mother in Essex, if I get a chance perhaps I can get up to Yorkshire to check Whixley PRs.
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As far as I know.... from Genuki.....Whixley Parish records are held at the North Yorkshire County Record Office at Northallerton.
I have to go there to check out some Thirsk records..... but not sure when !
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OK, thanks Kathy, your help and advice greatly appreciated, you obviously will have a good "feel" for Yorkshire research so I will take your advice on board.
Regards.
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ok everyone - today I have spent so much time on the fiche reader...I'm seeing double....
Managed to get quite a bit of information - but not everything ! ......will send stuff in PM's to people !
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Dear Kathy,
Thank you so much for all your hard work finding Samuel Blunt for me. Unfortunately Ithink I must be barking up the wrong tree, though, because my great grandfather Samuel was a cabinet maker and also would have been about 18 in 1858. Back to the drawing board!
Best wishes.
Dawn
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Kathy,
Thanks for looking for me, it was a long shot but never mind.
If I do find any more info I'll let you know.
Thanks again.
Carl.
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Hi Kathy,
Thank you so much for the Joseph Barker information. The birth date does help as it confirms Tenters as the place for me. I had found a family on the IGI for Tenters but was never confident enough to claim it before this.
Your generousity is much appreciated - obviously by more than just me!
DelB
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would you be brave enough to take on a Smith?
I am researching Martha Smith who on 1 May 1796 in Batley married William Mason, chr. 2 Jun 1774 in Armley, son of Christopher Mason and?
I dug this out of the IGI and wonder if she is our Martha? is there anything beyond this in the record? or is there a non-conformist record for our Martha?
MARTHA SMITH
Female
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Event(s):
Birth: 08 OCT 1774
Christening: 06 NOV 1774 Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Death:
Burial:
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Parents:
Father: JOHN SMITH
also seeking information on William Clifford Moffitt, b. 24 Nov 1803 "near Leeds" possible also non-conformist. not in the IGI. he married William and Martha Smith Mason's daughter, Martha Mason.
thank you for your time and help
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I may not get the chance to look this up for a couple of weeks.....but have added it to my list ! Will let you know if I come up with anything....
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thank you, Kathy, that would be wonderful. any information on this family would be a boost. we've been brickwalled for several years on every branch! you'd think something would give! now if only there was a web site exactly like this for the USA! I can dream...
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I can look up the marriage in Batley - but at that date it will not give the father's name - but should give the names of two witnesses, the groom's occupation and if they lived in the parish or not.
The baptism is VERY unlikely to give anything other that what you have, except perhaps where they lived, and sometimes the father's occupation. The only other thing is that sometimes you can find more than one baptism and find Martha's siblings....which could fit in with something else.....there are quite a few on the IGI with John Smith as father.....but it may become clearer with an occupation or 'abode' that we can compare......will let you know what I find..Kathy
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unfortunately I don't have it in my notes, but if memory is correct William Mason, Jr. (Martha Mason's brother) came to America to start up a mill of some sort in Massachusetts. that might help you in the occupation area. in the 1850 Massacusetts census his occupation is given as "operative" it doesn't say what of. it's quite clearly operative, not operator.
it's easy enough to get Martha Mason and her mother, Martha Smith, confused.
if you should get around to it, and I'm in no rush,
Martha Mason probably married in Armley (some descendants claim Massachusetts, but I'm finding alot of errors of that sort in what's being sent to me) about 1838, to William Clifford Moffitt
her brother William Mason, Jr. probably also married in Armley about 1837 to Amelia Murgatroid
their brother Christopher Mason m. Hannah Whittaker, but we don't know when or where.
oh, yes, the family was Presbytarian in the States, so I don't know whether they were C of E in England, or non-conformist.
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I got Piggot's 1834 directory in the mail today, which didn't list Batley but has Armley and Bramley in it. of course none of my people are listed. darn. I was wondering if you would check for a marriage between Martha Mason and William Clifford Moffitt in Armley abt 1838, as well. family story is that they married and had thier children in Massachusetts, but early MA vital records a quite extensive, and they aren't there at all. since I've proved with the 1850 census that William Mason, Jr.'s family wasn't all born in America, it is probable that neither was William Moffitt's family. that, then would lead to baptisms, but I think I've asked plenty, if not too much of you, already.
bless you for your help to those of us who can't access the archives!
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Hi Neko
I have searched the GRO index feom the first entries in 1837 to the end of 1839.....found 4 marriages for William Moffat/Moffatt/moffit/moffitt
I have checked all the ref. nos. against Mason entries and found none that match up......only one of them was in Leeds...
That was William Moffitt (the only one with the same spelling)...however, on checking the Leeds records (on 'Yorkshirebmd') I found that this William actually married a Judith Fowler at St Peter's Church (Leeds Parish Church) in 1839.
There are no other William Moffitt's on the Leeds entries, for about 15 years...so I don't think they married there.
There is an entry for a marriage for a Martha Mason...she married Robert Chadwick, also at St Peters) in 1840.
The ref. for William is - June 1839 Leeds 23 311
for Martha Mason - Sept 1840 Leeds 23 313
I know it might sound weird...but maybe they were married to other people !
The best I can offer, is to look up the details of the marriages in the church records.....which I can't do for a week or so.......but that will save you sending for certificates that don't fit....and we should be able to work out if either of them fit .....they will have father's details, etc.
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wow. I'm glad you did the search. they are an elusive lot. everything I have for these people place them in Leeds in the various towns I mentioned-Armley, Batley, Bramley, Leeds. the Mason's show up for one generation in the C of E. as they were Presbytarian here in America, I wonder what faith they were in England, as it is William's parents and aunts and uncles who are in the C of E, not William and his siblings. at least, not from what the IGI shows. or rather, doesn't show!
good luck on the church records. I have some dates available online at Rootsweb's WorldConnect if you need them.
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Neko = I have just got home from the Leeds Archives .... and here is what I have managed to come up with :
1)
Batley Parish Church - entry no. 781
1st May 1796 marriage
William MASON of this Parish to
Martha SMITH of the same
after banns
(both signed X their mark)
witnesses : Christopher Mason & Rebekah Dixon
(both signed their names)
2)
Armley - baptisms
2 June 1774
William son of Christopher MASON
(NO OTHER INFORMATION WRITTEN) - sorry
BUT - there is also this entry :
March 4th 1770
John son of Christopher MASON of Armley
I also had a look in the Armley mariages forChristopher's marriage - there were no Masons listed.
3)
St Peter's Leeds (Parish Church)
6 Nov 1776
baptism of child of :
John SMITH of Holbeck born 8th October 1774 and named Martha
4)
Marriage of William Moffitt & Judith Fowler - not able to find this ....but ran short of time....
5)
THIS IS A GOOD ONE !
Marriage at St Peter's )Parish Church - Leeds)_
3rd August 1840 by licence
Robert CHADWICK full age bachelor gentleman of Claremont Place
to
Martha MASON full age spinster of Boston
fathers :
Robert CHADWICK gentleman
Christopher MASON grocer
witnesses :
Thos. WALKER & Mary CHADWICK
I hope there is something there which is of interest !
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wow, thanks for looking this up. I didn't know if there would be anything with this family group because they are so elusive. so this is a bounty compared to my usual finds, which is zilch! it is a repeat of what's in the IGI, but it's good to get the little bits the IGI overlooks-such as which parish(es) the couple came from, who the witnesses were, etc.
I don't know the William Moffitt you found, but he may be related. the Moffatt's of Yorks are an elusive lot, as well, and it's obvious that William Clifford Moffitt spelled his name differently from most of the Moffitts in Yorks-those that I can find, that is. the Martha Mason who m. in 1840... She's from Boston...have to look up where that is, but Boston doesn't fit into the family stories. from my atlas of England, Boston is in Lincs., south of Yorks. with Christopher and his family being of Armley, it makes it difficult for me to fit her in Boston...my Martha's death record places her birth in Armley, but those records are not always correct...
I wonder if Rebekah Dixon is family and if she's an important clue.
like another ancestor, Christopher may have come in from another area. his first child, George, is baptised in 1761 in Armley, but no record is found for Christopher's birth. I noted a number of early 18th century baptism's for various Christopher Mason's around England-if I recall two were in London, but not knowing migratory roots beyond Norfolk to Suffolk or Essex, Suffolk to Essex and Essex to London, Middlesex, Surrey and Oxon, I don't have any idea where or why people migrated. my other line was also a Grocer, though much earlier. but that goes back to the Boston Masons, and I don't know whether they connect.
I don't know if any of this is any help or if I'm just rattling around.
can you check outside of the C of E? would there be any non-conformist records for them? the reason I ask is because they are in the C of E for one or two generations, but the records are spotty and then they disappear from the C of E-if the IGI is accurate.
thanks again for your help!
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There are some non-conformist registers on fiche ar Leeds.......I will jave a nosey next week !
Another thought - Boston - there is a 'Boston Spa' north of Leeds.....it might be worth a look ! Because it just says 'Boston' - I have a feeling it could be local....or I think they would have qualified it by saying Lincs. or USA....don't you ?
Boston Spa was quite a rural area...maybe Martha was in service somewhere ?
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that's great! a look at those records will answer some questions-even if there's nothing there.
I didn't know that there was a Boston Spa. I have a book called A Genealogical Atlas of England and Wales-no idea why it's called a genealogical atlas. some bright light took and copied an old, worn map, circa 1850, and put it in book form with a fairly complete index. it's been one of my wiser expenditures in my genealogical research. I use it alot. anyway, it doesn't mention Boston Spa. it does make sense that they should have qualified it. sometimes I run into records where the clerk assumed everyone knew what they meant....hopefully this is not the case.
we don't know much about their life in England. only that Christopher Mason, Jr., was a teacher and had a medical problem-what that was slips my memory at this time, but I think it was something like scholiosis (sp?). we have a missel of Martha Smith's that she gave to her daughter Martha Mason, with dates and places written in brown ink-not of births but of the time Martha Smith recieved the Missel and the time she gave the Missel to her daughter. we also have a family record book-the Victorian period type, where names and data are entered. it's impossible for me to tell what denomination the Missel is, and beyond that, we know nothing of their life in Yorks. the Missel has "Martha Smith Book Morely March 15 1796" then beneath that, "Mart B J M" but under and running up into the M is an S. the J might be a T. I've no idea what the initials stand for. on a different page is "Martha Mason Book Armley Near Leeds 1813". they appear to be written in the same hand. the frontispiece and I suspect the cover page of the book is missing, but the first page extant says "The Psalms of David Immitated in the language of the New Testament and applied in the Christian State and Worship by L. Watts D. D." doesn't seem to give any clue, and it may be a Christian text, without preference to faith.
unfortunately, that's all I have. nothing was left regarding the Moffitts, and only a little regarding the Mason's.
I hope some of this is of help. sometimes another person's perspective helps bring the obvious (or obscure) to light.
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I will keep looking for you !
But - if Martha's brother William Jnr. was in Mass. in 1850 .....isn't it possible that Martha had been living there too before marrying in 1840 back in England ?
I've found before that there was quite a bit of travel backwards and forwards - more than we would have expected......I have people on the passenger lists, who seem to go to New York 3/4 times !
Its might be worth trying to find Robert Chadwick on census' etc ? ...see what happened to his wife.....and where they were all born.....at least then we can discount this if necessary !
Also - remember, the Boston, on the marriage cert. if her address - not place of birth ! Also, they married by licence - very posh - or very hurried !
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Hi again !
I've just searched LDS 1881 census and found this : RG11/ 4584/30
Robert Chadwich 69
Martha Chadwich 72
He is a vicar and she is listed as born in Bramham ...... which is right next to Boston Spa !!
So I think it may be back to the drawing board ! What do you think ? I think this fits with the mariage I found ! and Martha is still a mystery !
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you've got me. Robert and Martha are a mystery to me as well.
we've dug through MA records-I even joined NEHGS, (YEEOUCH! but they are expensive for what they give) not just for them, I have gobs of MA ancestors, and not all related to the same side of the family. no record. not of Martha's marriage or her children. so the family's statement that the kids were born in MA is all wrong. MA records are pretty complete. an individual may slip through the cracks, but not a whole family. so where were they born, I wonder. need to go back and check the censi I looked up. don't recall them saying anything other than MA, though. I'll get back to you on that.
yes, I've been amazed with the traveling back and forth across the pond in the early years. I have a great grandfather who did the trip to Holland at age 82! and did it several times during his time as a US citizen. don't have his immigrant record, that's before Ellis Island and I don't know where or exactly when he originally came to the US. I'm also amazed with how people moved around as much as they did in the 1600's and 1700's.
I only just heard about marriage by license last month. it was a big thing. only the wealthy...and, as you said, those in a hurry...
I have Wm Moffitt's first child b. 4 Feb 1839. I don't have the marriage date. Wm Mason's first child b. bef 4 Sep 1798 (chr, date) the marriage was 1 May 1796. that's not much help. we don't know how close either birth was to the marriage.
I'll go check the census again, maybe I'll find something I overlooked...
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a bit of a suprise. in 1850 William isn't with the family. he died 1888. the family, Martha and their first 3 children are in Hinsdale, Berkshire, MA. and the children are listed as born in MA. but no record exists for them. he is with them in 1860. his name is too common to single him out in 1850. I looked and looked for Sarah Jane Allen nee Moffitt in 1860, as I have before, and she eludes me yet...I don't look at every census record as the name is too common, but I haven't found her under either her maiden name or married name in any of the counties I know they lived in. one census after another has the kids born in MA. I had the same problem with Martha's brother, but apparently I'm the only one in the group of people I know are researching him that looked at the MA census, and it has several children born in England. I'd like to know about Martha and Wm Moffitt-can you check the 1841 census for them? I don't find either family in MA in 1840.
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I don't remember if we have been in touch before but I have a family tree for the Cripps and Fox of Rothwell
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Hello Kathy
Could you please look up Agnes Musgrave up .
christening 28th april 1833 st peter leeds
thank you
mike
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Sorry Mike.....my original post was January 2005.....since then we have moved to North Yorkshire so I cannot get easy access to the Leeds archives.
regards
Kathy
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Hello Kathy
Could you please look up Agnes Musgrave up .
christening 28th april 1833 st peter leeds
thank you
mike
Hello Mike
What exactly are you wanting as LDS IGI have the Parents of Agnas Musgrave bap 1833 all that will be extra on the PR will be a an abode or do want a copy of the event for your tree.
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Hello Dobfarm.
thanks for replying. really wanted where born
and parents name if possible . if they had such details then. as wanted search musgrave family. history assumed all leeds based
mike
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I have a copy! of the event!
Tell me when your ready - I'll try & post a photo of the event on here! then click on the blue tab at the bottom of the photo and a bigger photo will appear! from this!!! left click your mouse on the photo and in the box that comes up! click 'save to my photos'
I'll leave in the post for I day then remove it!
Dave
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Hello Dobfarm
Thank you ever so much for the print out.
did not know father was a sailor. alas cannot read the name of abode. but hopefully can track down john musgrave the sailor
. have saved image to my pictures as shown
mike
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Hello Dobfarm
With thanks picture saved okay.have john musgrave now down as sailor.died 1838 leeds and Sarah Thorp died 1841 leeds.just have to find when born.
assume must have married around 1833. so assume john born around 1812.
thanks for you help
mike
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I think that the address is George Street.
Elin
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Hello Elin
Thank you very much for that.will add to records.
micheal
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Hi Mike
I'll go back, try and read the abode ? It looks like George-d? Street but its grap on the film reader. I'll try and find out from Census Streets and Map also Bishops transcript's of Agnes bapt 1833 event-maybe a better image!if there is one.
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Hello Dobfarm
Thank you ever so much for going to all this effort for me. am pleased with what already found.
micheal
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Hi again
No problems! We have most of Yorkshire PR's in our library in Huddersfield and just got mi free bus pass! No charge as Photoing as I have a pass to photo all record at WYAS and Libraries. ;)
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Hello Dobfarm
Just set alarm bells off in my head .as have
a few leeds querrys to resolve.and its tempting to say the least to pass to you,
afraid my bus pass is three years away unless they move it to new pension age . which would not surprise me.
micheal
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Hi Mike
This thread is dormant so will stay on here!
Just alist your looks up wanted within reason. Ie;- not 4000 of them
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Hello Dobfarm
Thank you so much. not that many in leeds.
as my tree is selby mostly.till they all flew the nest .
and had a hard job tracing.
will post here when had a look. for my leeds ones.
micheall
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Hi Micheal or Mike whichever?
Bang them All on here in one list when your are ready and I'll have a day at the library.
Regards Dave
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Hello Dave.
First have amended john musgrave. to sailor.
had down as tailor.in my records.
can you find the marriage of john musgrave and sarah thorp,10th june 1832 .leeds parish church.wondered if address and parents are on this.if have right family.
had a thomas musgrave 19oct 1834, and john on the
`2th june 1836,
now always assumed parents of agnes musgrave died
before she married in 1850. but john is down as sailor on
marriage cert,of agnes,
agnes musgrave is in the leeds mercury . which some kind young lady posted on site for me.
she went missing .and ran away with four dresses. on the
8th july 1848, its in the leeds mercury.
where agnes went to till marrying nathaniel russell in 1850 .is a puzzle.
also find sarah musgrave as remarried according to the article to james farnon, sarah is 25 in 1841.census.
could you find this marriage. as wondering if it says
widower on the cert.or divorced. as john is clearly on the 1850 marriage cert.so cannot put widower on the sarah musgrave and james farnon. or did they not bother in them days,
hope you can follow what am after. no rush.just pleased if you find any -thing.
angus musgrave. later russell. sadly was in the beckett street infirmary 1881 census , when did she go in. sadly will never know.am assuming was around 1871 or slightly earlier as cannot find on 1871 census.
have down a long article on agnes musgrave /russell.
had excellent help from dee and others . but still
issues need solving.
mike
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I'v found my Moffitt/Murfitt ancestry, but not the Mason or Smith ancestry.
Martha Mason was born 25 Mar 1810 Armley, Yorks daughter of William Mason and Martha Smith. she was their youngest. we have information on her and her siblings, but not much on their parents and no copy of the baptism records.
William Mason bmd unknown father Christopher mother unknown
wife Martha Smith bmd unknown parents unknown
children;
Christopher MASON c: 4 Sep 1798 in Armley,Yorkshire,England probably died in infancy
Christopher Columbus MASON b: 21 Dec 1800 in Armley,Yorkshire,England c: 22 Feb 1801 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
Sarah MASON c: 11 Dec 1803 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
William MASON c: 30 Apr 1809 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
Martha MASON b: 25 Mar 1810 in Armley,Yorkshire,England c: 2 Jun 1811 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
Christopher (father of William) appears to have had these children, and this may be his wife;
possible marriage to;
Sarah DEWHURST
Marriage: 15 Jul 1761
Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England
this might be him
Christopher MASON
Sex: M
Event(s):
Christening: 28 May 1735
Fewston, Yorkshire, England
Parents:
Father: George MASON
Mother: Mary
George MASON c: 4 Dec 1761 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
John MASON b: 21 Jul 1763 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
Mary MASON c: Jan 1764 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
Susanna MASON c: 5 Jan 1766 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
Christopher MASON c: 22 Nov 1767 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
John MASON c: 4 Mar 1770 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
Sarah MASON c: 5 Nov 1772 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
William MASON c: 2 Jun 1774 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
I found these two possibles for Martha Smith on the IGI, but I can't tell whether either is her.
Martha Smith chr. 7 Jul 1786 Morely Yorks, England, New Chapel Independant, b. 4 Jun 1786 father Thomas, mother Betty
or more likely;
MARTHA SMITH
Female
~~~~~~~~
Event(s):
Birth: 08 OCT 1774
Christening: 06 NOV 1774 Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Death:
Burial:
~~~~~~~~
Parents:
Father: JOHN SMITH
I'd like to verify these and extend the ancestry.
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Hi
Your saying
John Musgrave X Sarah Thorpe married 10th June 1832
Siblings of their marriage known todate are;-
Agnes Musgrave bap 28th April 1833 dad John a Sailor of George St Leeds
Thomas Musgrave bap 19th Oct 1832
John Musgrave bap 2nd June 1836
............................
8th July 1848 Anges Musgrave went from somewhere with 4 dresses to somewhere is a greyarea!
Agnes Musgrave x Nathanial Russell Married in 1850 and her father John was a Salior
............................
The above Sarah Musgrave age 25 in 1841 census (nee Thorpe) re-married her 2nd husband James Farnon Year unknown
............................
Agnes Russell 1851c ?
............................
Agnes Russell 1861c ?
............................
Agnes Russell 1881c was in Beckett street hospital Leeds
some called Dee has been helping you?
Dave
Is this Correct
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I'v found my Moffitt/Murfitt ancestry, but not the Mason or Smith ancestry.
Martha Mason was born 25 Mar 1810 Armley, Yorks daughter of William Mason and Martha Smith. she was their youngest. we have information on her and her siblings, but not much on their parents and no copy of the baptism records.
William Mason bmd unknown father Christopher mother unknown
wife Martha Smith bmd unknown parents unknown
children;
Christopher MASON c: 4 Sep 1798 in Armley,Yorkshire,England probably died in infancy
Christopher Columbus MASON b: 21 Dec 1800 in Armley,Yorkshire,England c: 22 Feb 1801 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
Sarah MASON c: 11 Dec 1803 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
William MASON c: 30 Apr 1809 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
Martha MASON b: 25 Mar 1810 in Armley,Yorkshire,England c: 2 Jun 1811 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
Christopher (father of William) appears to have had these children, and this may be his wife;
possible marriage to;
Sarah DEWHURST
Marriage: 15 Jul 1761
Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England
this might be him
Christopher MASON
Sex: M
Event(s):
Christening: 28 May 1735
Fewston, Yorkshire, England
Parents:
Father: George MASON
Mother: Mary
George MASON c: 4 Dec 1761 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
John MASON b: 21 Jul 1763 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
Mary MASON c: Jan 1764 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
Susanna MASON c: 5 Jan 1766 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
Christopher MASON c: 22 Nov 1767 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
John MASON c: 4 Mar 1770 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
Sarah MASON c: 5 Nov 1772 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
William MASON c: 2 Jun 1774 in Armley,Yorkshire,England
I found these two possibles for Martha Smith on the IGI, but I can't tell whether either is her.
Martha Smith chr. 7 Jul 1786 Morely Yorks, England, New Chapel Independant, b. 4 Jun 1786 father Thomas, mother Betty
or more likely;
MARTHA SMITH
Female
~~~~~~~~
Event(s):
Birth: 08 OCT 1774
Christening: 06 NOV 1774 Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Death:
Burial:
~~~~~~~~
Parents:
Father: JOHN SMITH
I'd like to verify these and extend the ancestry.
Sorry!
I'm not the Thread owner and only helping Mike as a one off.
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Mike go to PM communication now! off the main board
Dave
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if you trace back far enough I was the thread owner, I started it. it has gone exceedingly off track, but I decided not to protest. we all have a need for research help. I started it with a request for information on my Moffitts. I still am requesting information.
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KathyM started this thread back in Nov 2004 as an open request for look ups in Leeds archives but her last post say she could no longer do this for Mike as she lives in North Yorkshire Now!
I assumed Mike had not noticed this aged thread date and came on only to help him out.
As for you being the thread owner and your ancestry as this thread being Moffits beats me.
Maybe you have got this thread mixed up with another
Regards Dobfarm
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I have booked to go to the Leeds Archives in two weeks time - if anyone would like a free - look-up in the parish records (Leeds, Wakefield, Bradford, areas)....preferably with a specific church & rough idea of dates !
I will spend the morning doing look-ups ! let me know !
post 1 Nov 2004 of this thread
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Hi Mike.
http://www.yorkshireindexers.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1734
My friend in ancestry rootschat libby9 and I have researched this concluding that we think think Agnes had Alzheimer's or similar long term illness, Nathaniel had a split life with both of Agnes and Georgina ! Either Divorced, Bigamist or Annulment? what was fact Nathaniel was trapped. We can add nothing further too this issue !, there maybe hospital records in Leeds, York or Poorlaw records but you would need to contact the repositories that hold these records and that can be expensive.
We further add! that if you had given the above link before with your first reguest it would have saved us a lot of wasted time ??? reseaching the censuses................. :(
Regards
Dave :-\
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John Musgrave - occupation Tailor (Definitely a T in Tailor)
X X X
Sarah Thorpe ---Spinster.
Married by Banns Published 11th-18th and 25th March
Tenth day of June 1832
John Musgrave Signed his Name
Sarah Thorpe left her Mark X
Witnesses Joseph Sutcliffe left his mark X and Elizabeth Green left her mark X
Rev John Wrighthurst curate conducted the service
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Born 28th Oct 1800 -Bapt 7th Dec 1800 John of William Musgrave
abode Bank Leeds
Born 6th Aug 1802-Bapt 12th Sept 1802 John of John Musgrave
Abode Simpson Field Leeds
Born 25th June 1803- Bapt 27th July 1803 John of David Musgrave
abode Kirkgate Leeds
Born 14 Feb 1806 - Bapt 16th March John of James Musgrave -No abode given
Born 13th Feb 1810-Bapt 15th April 1810 John of William Musgrave
abode BANK Leeds
(This could be a 2nd child after an infant death of John of Willliam Musgrave 1800 ?)
Born 21st June 1812-Bapt 2nd August 1812 John of John Musgrave
Abode Camp field Leeds
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Phone Huddersfield library Contact details on Google
Send SAE for copies about a £1 or less each after phone call for adivce on this issue
Marriage too faint to photo on fiche
Same for any copies wanted chosen bapt ('s) listed
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Hello Dave
Its a very big thank you for all the above information.will contact Hudderfield libarary .had sarah last name without the letter E.
Will correct that.
a very pleased client signing off
mike
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Hi Mike
I was hoping the marriage was by licence and the bond allegation would have given an age for thoth bride and groom also solved the riddle of which John Musgrave baptism above
I think John was a Tailor Not a Sailor in Leeds.
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Hello Dave,
you have done better than i could.was thinking the john musgrave born in 1810 father william may be mine.thought with a name like musgrave would be easier to research . but find there are quite a few of them.was under the idea that john and sarah had died.but as seen sarah remarried and john was on agnes married cert stated as sailor. so was wrong myself.
just pleased with what you have given me.
and am sorry did not give correct details on first post .was correct to slap me on the wrists as they say. and no affence
taken as i wasted your time .
so thanks from me
mike
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http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Leeds/Leeds22Dry.html
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Leeds/Leeds37Dry.html
Directories
Transcript of the entry of "professions and trades" in Baines's Directory and Gazetteer Directory of 1822.
Transcript of the entry of "professions and trades" in Pigot's Directory of 1829.
Transcript of the entry of "professions and trades" in Pigot's Directory of 1834.
Transcript of the entry of "professions and trades" in White's Directory of 1837.
A further transcript of the entry of "professions and trades" in White's Directory of 1837.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Leeds/index.html
plus more stuff
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Hello Dave,
you have done better than i could.was thinking the john musgrave born in 1810 father william may be mine.thought with a name like musgrave would be easier to research . but find there are quite a few of them.was under the idea that john and sarah had died.but as seen sarah remarried and john was on agnes married cert stated as sailor. so was wrong myself.
just pleased with what you have given me.
and am sorry did not give correct details on first post .was correct to slap me on the wrists as they say. and no affence
taken as i wasted your time .
so thanks from me
mike
Hi Mike
As an after thought -Sometimes a new fresh approach by fresh minds (Census)brings new angles, new thoughts and info. Thus its a gamble.
Now you have Both angles to cross ref.
I think you can rule out the David father of John bapt 1803 as he was a furnature maker.
Dave
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Hello Dave
Thank you very much for the trade and profession
lists will plough through them. with intrest.
also for the fresh out look you have givem me.
mike
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one John Father trade Machine maker
http://books.google.com/books?id=gWQSRPB4zn8C&pg=PA94&dq=john+musgrave+leeds&hl=en&ei=9I9YTN72JOSH4gaK2N3JBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=john%20musgrave%20leeds&f=false
Philosophical magazine - Page 94
1809
To John Hartley, John Musgrave, and William Farmery, of Leeds, machine makers, for a machine for preparing roving, slubbing, spinning, twisting, and doubling of cotton, flax, hemp, tow, worsted
other John father
out of Transcript of the entry of "professions and trades"
for LEEDS in Baines's Directory and Gazetteer Directory of 1822.
Musgrave John, agent. to collect rents, Musgrave's yard, Duke street
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Enter 'William Musgrave Leeds'
amd 'William Musgrave Bank Leeds' in Google Books
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Northern and General Bank of England
Share Holder William Musgrave Bank Leeds
Advertisements & Notices.
Liverpool Mercury etc (Liverpool, England), Friday, May 8, 1835; Issue
Looks like Willaim was a very Rich Man
Considering Agnes was of Poor working class I think one of the
John of John Musgrave rent collector seems most likely and The other fathers were too Middle class traders to very rich.
John of John Musgrave 1812 Rent collector
Thats my 6 penny worth
Good Hunting
Dave
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Hello Dave
Thank you for the last two items posted sorry did not get back to you.am trying to find hudderfield phone number at present. about to google it.but thought would reply to you first.
thanks again
mike