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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 13 October 06 23:45 BST (UK)
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Apologies if this is a bit 'deep' but would like opinions or feedback on what have you learned or gained since doing you family history?
I know we have learned about our individual forebearers, but alongside this, I have aquired knowledge of geography, and history, (throughout the UK) and also ICT, amongst many other things, whilst in my own search and searches for others.
Also do you believe you can have or develop a sense for family history when you do look ups. Such as a 'nose' like an investigator. Or do you think it is just experience along the way? Or is something genetic in some of us that compels us to find out, for ourselves and others?
I kinda sense sometimes, not always, that this is the people I am looking for, even though it is sometimes quite vague and obviously needs confirming.
Do others feel like this sometimes, or are you going to say am I well off my trolley, and need a new hobby.
Cas ::)
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I kinda sense sometimes, not always, that this is the people I am looking for, even though it is sometimes quite vague and obviously needs confirming.
Makes perfect sense. Each and every one of us here is in touch with our ancestors and know the ins and outs of their them to varying degrees. It's inevitable we'll develop an intuition that tells us that even though we can't prove it yet, we're looking at family.
I sometimes like to think that it's our ancestors guiding us to them...sometimes they want you to find them and will lead you on the right path, other times they'll be difficult and lead you astray. Sometimes they're sitting looking over your shoulders whispering in your ear telling you "this is me...make me live again through your research".
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I've learnt how to create a website to share the information about my family with other interested people.
I have learnt a load of stuff about the occupations and social history of my family as well as the geography of the places they lived in. All very interesting information.
Kerry
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Besides learning a lot about my family, I have learned a lot about the places they were born, and am still learning quite a bit. I've also learned how to deal with bureaucracy, dealing with all the libraries, courts, vital records offices.
And I definitely get a feeling that I have found the right person. I am still working on one that I need to confirm as being my gg grandmother and am not sure if I will ever be able to, but I just know she has to be mine. I can sense it.
Great topic, btw
:)
Kath
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I'm ashamed to say that I knew little about Scottish history before beginning my research and I am a born and bred Scot :o Although I did Higher History at secondary school it didn't cover Scotland at all nor was it taught much in primary that I can remember. I'd say that I've learned most about that since I started.
I have felt 'guided' too especially if I've hit a brickwall. I'll leave it and do something else then something will pop up in relation to the brickwall when I'm not expecting it such a relevant post in a list or advice for someone else on a forum which helps me to go a bit further.
Elaine
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Thanks to all that posted. :) I rarely start a new topic.
At least I know I am not alone in my FH world... ::)
My OH cannot understand my totally uninteresting hobby, and why do I want to find, or help people, I have never met, unearth dead people!! (his words)
Glad 'the sense or feeling' is with others, perhaps that is why I posted this topic, to ask if others felt it.
I do believe I have learned a lot, still am, even though I am not uneducated, as I teach.
Besides all the added knowledge, gained along the way, my greatest satisfaction is the understanding and incite, into my own history and those that 'made me'.
Cas :)
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I certainly have far better knowledge of the geography of the areas I am looking at. Every time I go up to Yorkshire I pass villages that I recognise on signposts but only realised their significance to me once I'd done this. I've been going past these signs for about 13 years now and only in the last year or 2 did they seem to make sense to me. I was really strange when I first recognised things on signposts...
I also have quite a good memory when I need it so my ancestors tree is mostly memorised.
Andrew
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Apologies if this is a bit 'deep' but would like opinions or feedback on what have you learned or gained since doing you family history?
Good thread you've started here, Cas.
Like you I've learned a lot about history and geography of various parts of the country. I've learned how to put a website together and through that sharpened my broader computer skills.
What is striking is the regional, and even local, differences in industries and occupations. And working out why people moved from where they were born - a living history and geography lesson. If only I'd done this while I was at school - it would have made it much more interesting.
It's also been quite a humbling experience. Viewed from our cushy, yet rather sophisticated lives now, I've been reminded how tough it was for many of our ancestors, but their's was probably a more straightforward life - inevitably focused on securing the funds to feed, clothe and shelter the family. Not a lot of consumer choice there!
And, at times, I too feel as though I've got a "good" lead, and at other times I have a nervousness about whether the conclusions I am drawing are the right ones. Unfortunately these two feelings don't always match up in the right way.
One other thing I've learned is that you can learn so much from others, and the things that you yourself know can be of help to others. That's why rootschat is invaluable because there's always a good second (or third etc) opinion waiting for you - a community rich in knowledge and skills.
At least half of us (if not most) of the people researching family histories are off our trolleys, whether we started that way or have nded up like that. So you are not alone there!
JULIAN
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Yes, good thread.
Everyone is right, you learn so much. Especially social history, how people lived etc, the situations of having families of 10 or more children in tiny 2 up 2 down houses, with several of the children dying in infancy, whilst another branch of the family is doing fine with a bevy of servants. And geography too - it must be hundreds of times I have reached for the road atlas as a new place name has come up. And mostly detective skills!- being able to look at an apparantly 'deadend' situation from all different angles until finally a breakthrough is reached via the most unexpected route!
I had a visit from a very old friend (Well, he's only about 50, but I mean someone I have known a very long time!!) last year, I had not seen him for about 20 years, though we had kept in touch by an annual Christmas card and letter. He remembered vaguely from these letters that I had an interest in Family History, and was in the process of saying he knew someone who was VERY into Family History and how very 'sad' it was! He had to eat his words when I produced the 3 inch thick 'book' telling the story of our Edmonds's from 1713 to the present day!
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I agree I have also learnt a lot. Although I still struggle with my Family Historian programme :-[
I've also developed a bit of a 'nose' for the right ancestor, well yet to be proven wrong ;)
I've allways been a broad minded person but I think I'm even more so since I started this hobby.
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Although I still struggle with my Family Historian programme
You cant beat a pencil and paper! My Family tree software (very oldfashioned by now I'm sure) was ditched many years ago!!
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I'm always too afraid to think a hunch might be right!
Kerry
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...would like opinions or feedback on what have you learned or gained since doing you family history? ...do you believe you can have or develop a sense for family history when you do look ups...?...Do others feel like this sometimes, or are you going to say am I well off my trolley, and need a new hobby.
I would love some feedback. There is no-one else following my family name in the county my mob come from, so there is no-one to on whom I can bounce my research and assumptions. I'd like some views. even if it was to say, you've got it all wrong!
But yes, I'd like to think that I'm developing a nose, an instinct, for the right answer. Sometimes, some things seem just right. But see above!
And if you're off your trolley, then so am I, and I suspect so is half of Rootschat!
meles
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Meles
I sign up to being off my trolley as well then!! But you know what they say - it helps!!!!
Kerry ;) ;)
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".............
I had a visit from a very old friend (Well, he's only about 50, but I mean someone I have known a very long time!!) last year, I had not seen him for about 20 years, though we had kept in touch by an annual Christmas card and letter. He remembered vaguely from these letters that I had an interest in Family History, and was in the process of saying he knew someone who was VERY into Family History and how very 'sad' it was! He had to eat his words when I produced the 3 inch thick 'book' telling the story of our Edmonds's from 1713 to the present day!"
Good morning
I, too, have been researching EDMONDS' for well over 20 years since my 91yo.Father left me his manual information.
I have even attempted to get further clues through DNA. This is my site -
http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/edmonds/results
I prepared these pages as my contribution to the EDMONDS family groups world-wide.
Would love to have further information from your line as well.
Hope that you are well and still on-line.
Regards
Bruce EDMONDS
Brisbane Australia
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Cas,
Don't apologise for posting a thread such as this. It is something I too have pondered on myself, from time to time.
I have always had a deep interest in history, especially military history. Social history used to bore me to tears; I had no interest in knowing how people lived in days gone by. Well, how times change, as they say. Since being bitten by the genealogy bug, I now have a greater appreciation of how our ancestors lived; my interests have widened considerably into not only how they lived, but also their customs, attire, etc. I also like to put my ancestors into context; that is, compare their lifespans with events in history.
Additionally, like a lot of you have said, I have developed a better understanding of English geography. I also have built up better researching skills, and a good knowledge of where to look for what.
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When I am not rummaging around on the FH, I read detective fiction. My OH says he recognised the link. Liking mysteries and trying to solve them
I too need to join the Trolley Club
Sylvia
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I think detective fiction and genealogy do go hand in hand, along with a general love of history.
And about that Trolley Club; I must be a founding member!
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Another member of the trolley club, I'm afraid.
I have also learnt a lot about local geography (local to my birth, that is). I thought I knew the area well but I didn't. There are villages I'm discovering that I had never heard of. I have also found out a lot about the history of the churches in those villages and some of that is fascinating. Military information still has me scratching my head but I'm getting there. Employment history and value of money, social history etc. It's all seeping into my head as I work through my research.
And, yes, I have an instinct for the 'right but to be confirmed' person. Sometimes they scream at me from the computer screen as if to say 'you've found me at last'.
On a slightly different level though I have also learnt to be more coherent in my writing, searching the internet is more satisfying (even if it's not FH related), I am more confident when I talk about history and I feel more 'connected' to my family although I have no living relatives that I'm in contact with.
Rishile
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I've learned how easy it is to forget or hide your roots. Did my Nan know her Grandmother was German? Possibly. If not her father certainly knew as he was born well before WW1. Nan certainly knew my Grandad was from an Irish Catholic background and kept it quiet because mixed marriages were frowned upon.
On the other side of the family I vaguely remember my Grandad talking about his Grandfather accidentally shooting someone but no one else in the family had any knowledge of it or that the same man was lost at sea six years later. Also forgotten were the family's residency of a famous old tavern and some interesting occupations.
Blue
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No apologies needed Cas, it's a very thought-provoking topic.
Like others here, I sometimes sense a 'rightness' about a potential
ancestor and it is very satisfying when that feeling is confirmed.
I don't know if it's genetic or not, but I love to do puzzles, and
to me family history is the ultimate puzzle because it never ends -
once one person is found, there are two more hiding behind them.
Apart from learning the nuts and bolts of researching, and trying
to pick up related skills such as other languages, deciphering
documents, and so on, I have learned a little about how my mind
works, and to guard against my own shortcomings, in particular,
my tendency to create my own brick walls out of assumptions.
Always a keen reader, I now read on a much broader range of
subjects than ever I did, and regret that I came to them so
late in life.
vv.
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good thread...
i think that not a day goes by where i dont learn something more about genealogy or the vast amount of resources, and if i see someone going down the same track like to help or share those resources...
what i cant stand is "know it alls " who judge folk for answering in the way that person saw fit...
One hundred people may have versed themselves on the same subject and all formed an opinion, but when someone else comes along to give a reference to the text they should not be judged or told or complained about that they may not speak or participate.
the principle reasons we are using fh boards to learn or help in any way we can....
i think we all look at things in a different light or challenge our brains to the interpretation of the material before us.
if a person in our family tree had a particular occupation or survived the best way they could given the circumstances for which they lived so be it and admiration can only be given.
IF i chose to be a signwriter picture framer and cabinetmaker then that was my choice, but i dont judge for you being a garbolist or a scientist... in fact quite the opposite.... i would encourage it because its your choice of life.
I might not understand the technical aspects of your job but never would i say you must not discuss it or form an opinion regarding your understanding of the topic.
I hope all rootschatterers publish award winning or best selling books, and have years of great yarns to share about your kin.
fastfusion
:)
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There are two or three stories in my tree that I've kept from family members because they are quite disturbing. They don't involve direct ancestors but siblings of ancestors. I think it would be inappropriate to share difficult stories with other family members with only a casual interest in family history. It can be difficult deciding what to do when you discover skeletons in the closet.
Blue
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Blue, that is why I always say the dead relations are so much easier to deal with; you don't have to worry about upsetting anyone! :)
Fastfusion, well said. I agree whole-heartedly with your sentiments.
Veeblevort, you have reminded me of another skill-set I have had to pick up: always an amateur student of other languages, I have had to pick up the various genealogical terms in Swedish. My Swedish ancestors have proved somewhat challenging, but definitely not difficult. I think the language barrier has proven the biggest hurdle, as a lot of their records are more informative than their English-speaking counterparts.
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Not been chasing FH for a while, but have now returned.
Fastfusion, well said. I also agree whole-heartedly with your sentiments. Thanks all for your imput and stories :)
Regards Cas
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Well said fastfusion, I totally agree with you.
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I think I have a broader understanding of social history now too, because of my research. I've learnt a lot about the lives of men during WW1 and how complex it was. Before I'd always though all young men went off to war, but two of my ancestors worked on the docks in various guises, so I learnt something there.
I do think there is such a thing as a 'nose' for when an ancestor is yours.
I've sometimes wondered if we are all a bit like salmon and are instinctively drawn back to the places of our ancestors.
Before I'd done any family history research, I knew my Grandparents were from Hull but I didn't really know much beyond that, such as where they'd lived or how far back our history went there.
I went to an open day at Hull Uni and felt very comfortable in the city straight away, so I decided to pick it as my Uni. A few months later I went to Hull again with both my parents and we went to the marina and dockside. I can remember clearly even now, having a very strong feeling of calm and of being at home looking out over the Humber and around the dock buildings. When I eventually did attend there I often went down to that part of town and wondered around, again always feeling very at ease and at home.
It wasn't until I started to research my family history that I found out that my ancestors had worked on the docks and lived not even a third of a mile away from where I had stood on that day. It was almost as if they were whispering over my shoulder.
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I think I have a broader understanding of social history now too, because of my research. I've learnt a lot about the lives of men during WW1 and how complex it was. Before I'd always though all young men went off to war, but two of my ancestors worked on the docks in various guises, so I learnt something there.
I do think there is such a thing as a 'nose' for when an ancestor is yours.
I've sometimes wondered if we are all a bit like salmon and are instinctively drawn back to the places of our ancestors.
Before I'd done any family history research, I knew my Grandparents were from Hull but I didn't really know much beyond that, such as where they'd lived or how far back our history went there.
I went to an open day at Hull Uni and felt very comfortable in the city straight away, so I decided to pick it as my Uni. A few months later I went to Hull again with both my parents and we went to the marina and dockside. I can remember clearly even now, having a very strong feeling of calm and of being at home looking out over the Humber and around the dock buildings. When I eventually did attend there I often went down to that part of town and wondered around, again always feeling very at ease and at home.
It wasn't until I started to research my family history that I found out that my ancestors had worked on the docks and lived not even a third of a mile away from where I had stood on that day. It was almost as if they were whispering over my shoulder.
Sends a shiver..Very well put..I do believe we have an instinct or nose for who we are looking for and where we belong..or even who we belong too guides us. Deep again, but have found it true
Best wishes to all who posted on thread, some great incites.
Cas :)
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One of the things I`ve started to do is looking at events both local and national that occurred at specific times in my ancestors lives.Events around birth marriage and death dates.It makes you wonder how aware my ancestors were of events happening.It`s something else to investigate,interesting too.
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News travelled a lot slower and less in yesteryear, but I'm sure local and regional events would have been noted and discussed.
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Thank you again Cas for directing us to this thread from the Unexplained - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=647654.new#new
I have looked quickly at the comments herein and I would go so far as to say that this has to be one of the most important debates I have come across in my many years of discussion and inquisitiveness.
In a few moments I have gained new ideas about the meaning behind the human family race, most importantly what makes us what and who we are. I cannot explain this feeling in a few words so will present some cases and events , d.v.
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I shall begin with the beginning as far as I am concerned. My interest in family history was stirred at a relatively early age. I was only nearing my 27th birthday when all of my mother's brothers, all Draffan's, received a letter from George Draffen of Newington, in March, 1960 asking for family details and at the same time telling what he had discovered going back to the first Draffan, a witness at Kelso Abbey between 1160 and 1189. This was mind blowing at the time for most family knowledge was what remained in the mind after some aunt or uncle would bring up a name from their past.
Yet I did little once the initial interest had waned thinking as most people did then that there was little chance of discovering much more. Everything really kicked off around 1976 when having joined a travel agency in a Melbourne suburb the owner, found through the British High Commission that there was a crying need for a document service. So many people had lost all of their birth and marriage certificates without which they couldn't claim a pension, or travel overseas. So we lined up researchers in London and Edinburgh and that naturally led to our own family research.
It wasn't until 1987 that I sensed there was more to it all than just finding out who our great grandparents had been and where they lived etc. My daughter talked me into seeing a medium who had astonished herself. Though I always had believed there was something else and had an open mind, I didn't feel convinced enough to take that step. But she persisted and so I made an appointment. Tanya's open words were that she knew immediately that I would be a good subject as 'they' were all around me. Then came the first inkling that Tanya was the real thing for her next statement was that I had let my interest in family history wane and that it was most important that I get back to it and write about it. She wouldn't allow any interjection and if I tried to put in a word she stopped me with a reprimand saying that I could not tell her anything, but only answer 'Yes' or 'No' if she needed to know that what she could 'see' was on the right track.
Tanya then went on to see that she could see some place in England and a name something like 'Beckwirth' was an important clue. There is a very odd thing when one has a reading. Medium's call it 'Psychic Amnesia'. We forget names and places that we know very well and I didn't connect it at the time to the one place I had been searching, namely 'Babworth' near East Retford where my grandmother was born.
The rest of that reading was just incredible, so much so that I found myself questioning my daughter, and asking her just what she had told Tanya. I knew in my own heart that Fiona had kept personal details to herself, yet what I was told was just impossible for any other living person aside from perhaps my son, to have known. I never sought another reading until about ten years later when I first noticed the '33' phenomena. All Tanya could tell me then was that they were trying to get my attention. But it was what else she told me in 1997 that was utterly astounding. We had only just moved into a new house my second wife, Ede, and myself had had built upon retiring. It was just everything one could ever want and in an idyllic position close to the Hastings Marina, shops to one side, and the coastal board walk through wetlands and natural settings right next door. There was no way we would leave that heavenly home with a fantastic cathedral ceiling in the large family room cum kitchen or the great spa with air and water jets. But Tanya insisted we would move.
I protested saying that she was seeing the move we had just made. Tanya was adamant that it was to be in the near future and then went on to describe a trellis fence right across the front garden. My heart sank like a load of cement as I had just put that trellis fence up. Tanya lived some 60 kilometres away so could never had seen it and in fact had no idea where we lived. She then added that it wouldn't be until climbers had grown up and all over the trellis.
Three years later something happened that compelled us to sell up and move to Cairns, for Ede to be near her daughter.
My main point here though is that I now accepted that there was more to life than what we think is the only reality, and that our make up and family connections are a big part of it all. After all the Willis case which I have outlined in the linked thread above, was some evidence of that importance.
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I must say something now about the many historic events that I have learned solely through my interest in family research.
The one that is uppermost in my mind right now, is what happened in August 1640 at Ryton Willows on the River Tyne when an army of 20,000 Scots besieged Newcastle and then attacked Ryton from Newburn on the other side of the river. I have traced my Oliver's back to around that date, along with Richardson's, Harrison's, Cumming's, Kile's and Parmaley's. The Ryton parish registers have nothing after July 1640 for about a whole year, and history does tell us that the Scots occupied Ryton homes and stayed in Durham and Northumberland for a year. The big question then is what happened to those ancestors during the occupation? How were they treated? The Scots Army were mostly Covenanters, so one can only hope that they had some decency. It gets more complicated because one or two Draffan's from my great grandfather's home town were taken prisoner as Covenanters at Bothwell Brig in 1672. So could some ancestors have raided some of my other ancestors?
It is thought that the grandmother of William Wallace was an Alicia Draffan of Lesmahagow where my gt.grandfather James Draffan was born, so the plot deepens.
Earlier this year I learned all about the big uprising in Central Europe in 1863 which lasted much of that year and apparently involved the Borkowski ancestry of my daughter-in-law who also has Scottish ancestors. A Borkowski revolutionary was executed by the Prussians in November 1863 and that may have been the reason why the family fled, first to England then on the Cartvale to NZ in 1873. Until I got stuck into this family's past I had had no idea that there was once a great country between Germany and Poland called Kashubia, or that there are still communities who keep Kashubian folklore alive.
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Thank you for your input Malcolm, although very deep, but interesting.
Regards Cas
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Studying family history made me more adventurous and willing to be a 'pioneer'. Learning about the lives of my ancestors showed me how the decisions they made affected not only their lives but the lives of their descendants for generations to come.
I used to feel like I would never leave my own home town because I wanted to remain close to family, but now I'm contemplating the idea of moving somewhere completely different, like many of my ancestors did, and starting a new 'line' from there.
It also influenced me into starting my own business, like my great grandfather and my great great great grandfather before me.
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I've learned to keep an open mind.
People generally marry in their 20s, unless they are 50+.
People don't move far from their birthplace - unless they go to the other side of the world.
They name their children after their own parents and siblings - unless they just choose names from anywhere.
They stick at the same job - unless they have a different occupation every time it's recorded!
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First time I've seen this thread (and I haven't been around much lately), but I so agree with what people have said here!
Yes, I'm sure one develops a "nose" for finding ancestors, and my experience is that some do everything they can to be found - I'm very grateful to them. But others obstinately hide. I have two who disappeared in mid-Victorian London, and try as I might, I can't find a clue - the trail has gone cold!
Malcolm, I wish I knew a medium like yours - i'm pretty much at the stage where something like that is my only hope!
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People don't move far from their birthplace - unless they go to the other side of the world.
Wish mine didn't move far from their birthplaces, but with all four grandparents born in London, I've ancestors from all over southern and central England, East Anglia up to Durham and Fife. ;D ;D We have almost three times as much confirmed research on one of my grandmother's family lines because her ancestors only moved into London the 1800s after the start of birthplaces on Census. The other three lines all have numerous dead ends who appeared in London well before the onset of Census. Some have been cracked, many haven't .. not yet anyway. :-\
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Oh boy, what have I not learned and still learning. I hated history at school couldn't see the relevance of it, but loved geography ( could have been the teacher, well I know it was the teacher) Oh how I wish they had taught genealogy/family history as that would have made history relevant to me and I am sure to so many others too.
So when I started with only one goal which was only to find out my grandmothers name I soon became hooked, at that time looking around at the 'oldies' sitting in the records office I felt out of place, but soon learned that they had so much knowledge and helped beyond expectations and I really looked forward to seeing my new friends and still keep in touch with some decades later.
The thing that stands out is "how to research" that sure helped me in my degree, how to prove, attention to detail, creative problem solving, interviewing skills and to trust my instincts as they are generally correct even if not obvious at the beginning, those names jump out like flashing lights saying " its me you need you just don't know it as yet" proved so many times in later years when looking back at my old note books of information I had transcribed for no other reason than the name jumped out at me yet it was some random name in some random place at that time.
I improved my language skills had to brush up on my French ( hated that at school too) and learn some Latin, new terminology, finding written records I never knew existed and feeling pride in my ancestry as I read a letter written to the King asking permission to build a hospital and reading the reply and signed by him, now that took me in a completely different search learning about Knights Hospitallers and finding a road named after my ancestor where this hospital and alms houses were, so he lives on centuries after he died.
It has enabled me into places and to meet people that I would never had been given access to or met and to records that I would have never seen being "just me" like the actual manorial records still held by the family in the Hall, supposedly copied by the Heralds during their visitation, certainly on that country comparing the two the Heralds were the copy and paste merchants( online trees) of that time and the make it up as they go along marrying 'families' together where there is no record of any marriage in the real records
Social history and that " people didn't get divorced they stayed married" maybe not but they still had affairs and still left to be with someone else or " people remained locally as travel was difficult" simply they still travelled and faced the difficulty or " it would have not happened in your great grandfathers time" but "it" did they just didn't tell anyone, the marvels of medical advances we all take for granted now and that many people and companies are using "medicines" that we now call homeopathic, alternative or complimentary yet really should be called traditional
Photography and later on digital photography, IT, website building, databases and that instinct of going to a place you have never been to before but seem to feel at home and 'know' about it, even moving to and migrating to places that are completely 'new' to me then finding an ancestor lived/worked there before and that has happened in every place I have lived.
Family scripts, repeating jobs, repeating skills and naming one of my children a very unusual name only to find out later that it was a 'family name' even down to the unusual spelling, not used for 150 years but records going back of its use for centuries.
Realising that what I know is a drop in the ocean compared to what I don't know and still with lots to learn. That are lives are entwinded and often complicated and it was no different back then.
Lots of these things help me to make sense of things, to capture memories forever, for me not just on paper or a database but also to use my skills in textile design so thankyou ancestors for that creative gene ( and of course lots of encouragement to practise and 2 years additionally of textile art qualification) and create family history textile art
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Thank you all for input. I started this thread many years ago. FH touches the senses, nerve or nose we all have to inquire know and learn. Learning or being educated along the way is a plus bonus.
Collectively we have learned, gained knowledge or 'experienced' many things, and still continue to do so.
Regards in your search, knowledge or experiences obtained along the way. May we continue to do so, for ourselves and others :)
Best wishes
Cas