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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: KA on Monday 08 November 04 11:46 GMT (UK)
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I have an ancestor who took himself off to Australia between 1819 and 1923.
All I have is his name, date of birth, rough dates of travel (as above) and the fact that he landed in NSW.
I also have his marriage registration transcription for 4 April 1923 in NSW giving residence as Balmain, Sydney, NSW.
Does anybody have any idea how I could begin to trace exactly when he went out there, on what ship, and where he landed?
Regards
KA
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Hi KA
If you post on the immigrants to Oz board you would probably get more replies - meanwhile if you have his marriage details from NSW, then He probably died in that state as well. If you know his date of birth, you must be able to limit the date of travel somewhat (or is that a typo & the travel was 1919-1923?)
If you can get a copy of his death certificate, this should give you the length of time he spent in Australia and in which states, thus giving a closer date of travel and the port of arrival. There are a number of online and offline search places for immigrants / both assisted and unassisted and for BDM data.
This one is the most comprehensive for shipping
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=23
and covers arrivals to all the eastern states - although most information is for Victoria.
From about 1923, the national archives have immigrant details (prior to this time each state kept separate details)
www.naa.gov.au
You may like to look at the immigrants to Australia board - there are many links there.
Trish
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Hi Trish,
Thanks for trying to help. I did post a notice on the Aus Board. Took me a bit of time to find it was there. But since finding it I have worked my way through all options available.
The problem I have is due to Aus's confidentiality of BMD's I can't find any information on his death on-line. He only died in the early 1960's - so I can't get at him that way.
I've checked the unassisted passage web site, and he's not on that. He married (1st time) in early 1923, so he must have been in Aus by then. And I know he didn't leave UK until the end of WW1. So I have got this approx five year span for his travel - and the only info I can find is the unassisted passage details - of which he apparently wasn't one.
I am wondering if he could have worked his passage.
Any suggestions gratefully received.
Thanks
KA
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Hi KA
Sorry, I must have missed the posting on the immigrants board. Did you try a search on the Oz archives - if you would like to post a name I will look for you.
Indexes / online indexes are rather sparse for some areas. The NSW archives are at
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/ but they only have online immigrant records to 1896.
Sorry you have come across the joys of Aust privacy rules re BDM records. I just love this comment
Restricted records are normally only available to the person named on the certificate and identification is always required.
Tricky when it is a death certificate. You would be able to access the death certificate as it is more than 30 years old. If you can pinpoint the year, however, this would probably make it somewhat cheaper. The details are at
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/familyHistory.htm
If you wish to purchase a Family History Certificate for a death that occurred between 1946 and 1974, or a marriage that occurred between 1946 and 1954, you must complete a Family History Application Form and mail or fax this to the Registry. You cannot apply for certificates from these years online.
A couple of options for finding the death information would be
newspapers (Sydney Morning Herald) the most likely but online index only starts from 1974 - although they are going backwards, I notice 1973 has started & 1 date from 1946 is online. Microfilm of the newspapers is available in most Australia capital city libraries - it could be worth checking if your LDS Family centre has access to these films - although knowing the year would be a big help.
Cemetery/Crematorium records may be a possiblity as well. I don't know much about Sydney details online - could be worth a google. This is a good site
http://www.ozgenonline.com/aust_cemeteries/
The Australian white pages are online - perhaps you could find a descendant - although if the name is very common - you could find thousands.
A site that was mentioned recently is http://www.raogk.org/listing.htm
I think it contains lookups related to the NSW Archives. Could be worth an email. I recently contacted a person via this site who is taking some Cemetery pictures for me today.
The simplist option may be to get the NSW death certificate via snail mail. At the minute I think the oz $ is worth about 40p, so you could work out what it would cost for the search/certificate. If the informant was a close relative you should get lots of information including age, wife, children, marriage date, time in australia (and which states) and of course cause of death - I think funeral details may be on there as well.
Trish
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I have an ancestor who took himself off to Australia between 1819 and 1923.
All I have is his name, date of birth, rough dates of travel (as above) and the fact that he landed in NSW.
I also have his marriage registration transcription for 4 April 1923 in NSW giving residence as Balmain, Sydney, NSW.
Does anybody have any idea how I could begin to trace exactly when he went out there, on what ship, and where he landed?
Regards
KA
Hi, I have a similar problem, grandfather, married 1906, left England sometime between 1906 & 1912, had 4 children with my grandmother, married her in Sydney 1927(must have been waiting for first wife to die or divorce him, still don't know which it was), then died in Ashfield Sydney 1961. Don't know how or when he got here, some family rumour has it he was in Merchant Marines, but can't find anything that way. Still haven't sent for his death cert as mentioned by another poster; for deaths during the 1960's we have to send all kinds of proof of ID, so much bother to have to photocopy all that stuff, and then the cost. I have paid less to send to England for certs! Anyway, just noticed the similarities . Good Luck with your search, hope you find what you are looking for. Cheers! FindingAncestors
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I have an ancestor who took himself off to Australia between 1819 and 1923.
All I have is his name, date of birth, rough dates of travel (as above) and the fact that he landed in NSW.
I also have his marriage registration transcription for 4 April 1923 in NSW giving residence as Balmain, Sydney, NSW.
Does anybody have any idea how I could begin to trace exactly when he went out there, on what ship, and where he landed?
Regards
KA
This site offers transcripts of Certificates at a lower price and, you can order through the internet.
http://www.marbract.com.au/
Make sure you order a FULL transcript.
Reg
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Hi Reggie
The transcription agents are really good, but they can only provide transcriptions for the records included on the online indexes - i.e. marriages and deaths up to 1945. Sadly the only way to get a later death certificate is through the registry.
Trish
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Thanks for that everyone. I appreciate your trouble.
Trish, you said you could do a quick search on Oz archives if you had a name.
Francis Alfred Carlyon. b. London 1884.
In the meanwhile I'm going to have a go at all the web sites suggested. I refuse to be defeated. But I think that red tape may just tie me up in knots this time.
Kind regards
Kim
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Hi Kim
I searched the oz archives and didn't find your Francis, but did find
CARLYON FRANCIS NORMAN : Service Number - VX145813 : Date of birth - 25 Feb 1925 : Place of birth - RESERVOIR VIC : Place of enlistment - BATHURST NSW : Next of Kin - CARLYON W
(WWII service record - nothing for immigrants with that name pre 1960.)
If you wanted to check the details of this entry - you can apply via email to have it reviewed and the digital image put online (no charge). If you find the record (via record search) and follow it through you should find the details. (takes 4-8weeks for it all to happen). www.naa.gov.au
I thought this may be a child of your couple - but the next of Kin Carlyon W doesn't seem to fit with the name of his wife.
The timing of the arrival seems to be right on the changeover from state to federal records which doesn't help your search.
To purchase your death certificate (c. 1960) you do not need to provide ID etc (It is unrestricted) - so the red tape may not be too bad. This is where you can get the form
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/HTML%20forms/dth_app.html
Trish
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Thanks for your help Trish.
I'm going to give it a go tomorrow. See how far I get.
Many thanks
Kim
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Hi KA,
What is your relatives name??
I've noticed you are researching 'Carlyon' and as my g.g'mother is a Carlyon from Cornwall whose parents travelled to Australia in 1853/54, I may be able to help. :)
cheers,
Wendy
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Hi Wendy,
Francis Alfred Carlyon. b. 1884 London.
(His father John Alfred Carlyon was born 1855 in Cornwall.
John was the son of John William Simons Carlyon and Mary Carlyon (nee Harris).
All from the Sithney, Portleaven, Breage, Helston area of Cornwall - just in case Francis should link in to your family.)
Francis lived NWS.
Other than the fact he went to Australia, where he married twice (1923 and 1940) I know nothing of him.
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Hi KA,
You prob. already know this:-
Francis Alfred Carlyon married Kari Louise Isabel STORKSON in 1940, Sydney.
Will keep you posted if I come across anything else.
cheers,
Wendy
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Hi Wendy,
Yes, I found out recently. He was also married before, in 1923 - so I know he was in NSW by 1923.
Never heard if he had children by his first marriage. I know he had one girl by his second marriage. Marjorie. So seems likely there could be children by his first.
Thanks for looking
Kind regards
KA
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Ka
Below is the site for the White Pages telephone directory. I did a residential search for Carlyon and got 12 replies. Not very many if you wish to send a generic letter to all of them. You never know???? You may just get that reply you are looking for.
http://www.whitepages.com.au
If you were able to pin down a more definate marriage date I could pop down to the National Library here in Canberra and do a search on the Sydney Morning Herald for you. It is quite boring looking at film going past so, if there was a closer date I could do a search.
Also, there is the census but again you do have to know the area the person was in becasue they all in Fiche. BUt, you have one thing going for you and that is the name is not too common.
Hp this helps.
Reg
Canberra, Australia
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Ka
See this site for Carlyon's -
http://www.fitzsimmons.co.nz/family_history/ipc.html
You may already know of the site or, you may find some connections. I notice there are some in New Zealand.
Reg
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Hi Reg,
Thank you for your offer of looking at the Sydney Morning Herald for me. I can give specific dates for both weddings.
First:
4 April 1923. Francis Alfred Carlyon and Annie King Woods. Residence was given as Balmain, Sydney.
Second:
14 November 1940. Francis Alfred Carlyon and Kari Louise Isabel Storkson. His residence was given as 60 Womehah Avenue Darlinghurst. Hers as 31 Kings Lynn, Ithaca Road, Elizabeth Bay.
Hopefully that should give enough to pinpoint any information without causing you a lot of time and trouble. I appreciate your offer.
Census:
Perhaps you could tell me. What years are available in Aus. In the UK we can only access up to 1901. But in the US it's 1930. But it never occurred to me that Aus census may be available. Also, are the census records available online would you know?
Thanks for getting in touch with me.
regards
KA
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Hi KA
As far as I know the Australian Census records have all been destroyed except for a very few early ones (also called musters) 1840 or earlier. In 2000 about 50% of the records were retained - available in 2101.
The link for 1840 (what remains) is http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/ - follow the online indexes link.
If Reg knows about other Australian Census records I would love to hear more about it. I cry :'( :'( :'( every time I think about them being destroyed.
Trish
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Trish,
Crickey. So would I! Destroyed! What a horrible thought.
KA
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Sorry. I must have had a brain drain. What I meant was the Electoral Rolls. They are well worth a look but it takes time and you need to know the area a person was in otherwise it is a slow process of elimination.
The Library will be closed over the Christmas break. However, I will get down there at some stage and have a look for you. Send me a PM in January to remind me. I do get involved with other matters too.
Enjoy Christmas.
Reg
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Hi
I had a look on the NSW BDM can only locate the two marriages, no records of death upto 1945 for Annie K Woods so guesss they were divored, I checked the marriages to see if she remarried again but no listings.
7003/1923-- CARLYON FRANCIS A -M- WOODS ANNIE K -at- NEWTOWN
(Newtown is a suburb of Sydney)
22696/1940-- CARLYON FRANCIS ALFRED -M- STORKSON KARI LOUISE ISABEL -at- SYDNEY
Hope this adds a little you can check online at the following link
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm
Rgds Lesd
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Sorry. I must have had a brain drain. What I meant was the Electoral Rolls. They are well worth a look but it takes time and you need to know the area a person was in otherwise it is a slow process of elimination.
The Library will be closed over the Christmas break. However, I will get down there at some stage and have a look for you. Send me a PM in January to remind me. I do get involved with other matters too.
Enjoy Christmas.
Reg
KA
I went into library today. I searched the Sydney Morning Herald for a marriage of Francis and Annie Woods. Found nothing. Also, searched for a marriage of Francis to Kari Storkson, found nothing. Not all marriages are announced in the SMH.
However, I checked the Electoral Records and found:
entry No. 1213 Carlyon, Francis Alfred, 43 Barcom Avenue, agent, M
entry No. 1214 Carlyon, Kari Louise Isabel, 43 Barcom Avenue, home duties, F
SOURCE: Commonwealth Electoral Roll 1941, State of NSW, Division of East Sydney, Sub Division of Glenmore.
I checked through to 1955 when they fell off this area. Don't know where they went and to check the Electoral Rolls without an area is a huge job. So, hope this helps with your research. (Glenmore is a sub district and will not appear on maps. It is an area of inner eastern area of Sydney just off the CBD.
I did notice another Carlyon family -
entry No. 934 Carlyon Beatrice, 631 Dowling St, Home duties, F
entry No. 935 Carlyon Thomas, 631 Dowling St, Salesman, M
SOURCE: Commonwealth Electoral Roll 1955, State of NSW, Division of East Sydney, Sub Division of Surrey Hills.
I have just this moment had a thought and that is the Aust Electoral Rolls in the later years were in name order rather than Electorate order. When I go and visit again I will have a look . Provided the person is still alive I might just find something (again).
Hope this helps.
Reg
To answer your question regarding Australian Census. There is NO access to them at all.
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Reggie,
Thanks for that. I have found it very interesting. And strangely enough, the names Beatrice and Thomas, are in the family.
At least I know that Francis Alfred Carlyon was alive until 1955. I know he had died by 1965 - so at least I have narrowed his death down to a 10 year slot, which is something.
I love the description of 'home duties'. So much nicer than 'housewife'.
Many thanks for your time and help.
Kim
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Hi Kim,
Was just surfing and found your query, are you still looking for any Francis Alfred Carlyon details? As I found a death notice and divorce notice in the Sydney Morning Herald.
Cheers,
Sherryl
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Hi. Just surfing as a new member to rootschat. However came across your subject.
Not sure if this is any help but there is a record in NSWBDM's death of Francis Alfred Carlyon died Campsie NSW 1962. Mentioned his age 77yrs.
Regards
RD
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This request was posted in 2004 and the date of the death registrations online extends each year. The OP has been logged in recently so will post a little more info..
Francis A CARLYON, 29 years, chauffeur, departed London on 25 Sep 1914 on the ORSOVA ticketed to Australia. Country of last permanent residence, England. Country of intended permanent residence, Australia.
Bankruptcy 1927
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0n7f/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0n7c/
Overdue rates to Shire of Woy Woy
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0n7e/
Looks like Annie deserted him
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0n7d/
Decree nisi 1940
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0n7b/
Australian Electoral Roll
1930
CARLYON Annie 47 Georges River Road, Croydon Park Pastrycook
CARLYON Francis Alfred 47 Georges River Road, Croydon Park Agent
1930
STORKSON Kari Louisa Isabell District Hosptial, Norval Street,Auburn Nurse
1936, 1937
CARLYON Francis Alfred Womerah Avenue, Darlinghurst Agent
CARLYON Annie King 30 Musgrave Street, Mosman Caterer [at this address until 1943 - no death to 1981 or re-marriage to 1961]
1937
STORKSON Kari Louisa Isabell 258 Victoria Avenue Trainee Nurse
1949
CARLYON Francis Alfred 43 Barcom Avenue, Paddington Agent
CARLYON Kari Louie Isabella 43 Barcom Avenue, Paddington
1954, 1958, 1963
CARLYON Francis Alfred 17 Victoria Street, Burwood Agent
CARLYON Kari Louie Isabella 17 Victoria Street, Burwood HD
Deaths
9100/1962
CARLYON Francis Alfred 77 years Sydney
District Campsie
6825/1970
CARLYON Kari Louie I
Father Sivert Mother Isabella
District Sydney
http://www.ryersonindex.org/
CARLYON Francis Alfred
Death 12 May 1962
Late of Burwood, formerly of Coventry, England
Published in the Sydney Morning Herald 15 May 1962
CARLYON Kari Louie Isabella
Death 31 Oct 1970
Late of Strathfield
Published in the Sydney Morning Herald 2 Nov 1970
There is a facility to request copies of the notices on the website.
This marriage may be of interest.
3480/1961
LUXFORD Harold Charles
CARLYON Marjorie Ada
District Burwood
Australian Electoral Roll
Living next door to the CARLYON's in 1958
LUXFORD Harold Charles 19 Victoria Street, Burwood Plan printer
and in 1963 both Harold, sales rep, and Marjorie, teacher, are at 17 Victoria Street with Francis and Kari.
In 1980 Harold and Marjorie are both teachers living at Glenbrook in the Blue Mountains.
Cando
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Hi cando tks for all your information. Much appreciated
Cheers. ;)
RD
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Hi. Just surfing as a new member to rootschat. However came across your subject.
Not sure if this is any help but there is a record in NSWBDM's death of Francis Alfred Carlyon died Campsie NSW 1962. Mentioned his age 77yrs.
Regards
RD
Hi cando tks for all your information. Much appreciated
Cheers. ;)
RD
I didn't realise you were searching for more information. I posted the additional info in case the OP needed it....well glad it was useful.
Cando
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Cando,
I don't get much of an opportunity to get onto Rootschat as I used to. Lookign today I have found all the wonderful information you have kindly found and posted. I had very little of it, and am much appreciative of your posting.
A bit thank you.
KA
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I have an ancestor who took himself off to Australia between 1819 and 1923.
All I have is his name, date of birth, rough dates of travel (as above) and the fact that he landed in NSW.
I also have his marriage registration transcription for 4 April 1923 in NSW giving residence as Balmain, Sydney, NSW.
Does anybody have any idea how I could begin to trace exactly when he went out there, on what ship, and where he landed?
Regards
Hi K,
This is my first post so forgive me if it is difficult to follow, New South Wales Shipping Immigration records is a start, where did your ancestor arrive in Australia from? Name any details and I will do a look up for you. Many Irish settled in Balmain so I am assuming Irish? Let me know.
M
KA
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Hi DonegaltoAus :)
Welcome to rootschat :)
Hi K,
This is my first post so forgive me if it is difficult to follow, New South Wales Shipping Immigration records is a start, where did your ancestor arrive in Australia from? Name any details and I will do a look up for you. Many Irish settled in Balmain so I am assuming Irish? Let me know.
M
DonegaltoAus
Reply#15 has the person of interest's arrival
Francis A CARLYON, 29 years, chauffeur, departed London on 25 Sep 1914 on the ORSOVA ticketed to Australia. Country of last permanent residence, England. Country of intended permanent residence, Australia
.Cando
Cheers
Cando