RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: queenwillow on Thursday 28 September 06 11:26 BST (UK)
-
Hi, I have recently discovered that my my maternal Grandmother was a Penny.
I am very short of information about her. I know her name her husbands and her children's names .I also know her daughters DOB's I can't find any certificates for her. So, if anyone else has Cardiff Penny's in their tree, could they see if Miriam Emma Penny is there? She was having children from 1935 and she died in either 1980 or 1981 (Cardiff, probably the Clive Street area). Apologies if its not enough information and many thanks for reading this.
Also what does UD in a Cardiff address from the 30's mean please?
-
Welcome to Rootschat, Queenwillow.
Can you give the 30s Cardiff address in full so that we can see where the UD comes. It might help us work it out.
Regards, Gareth
-
Cowbridge Road, UD and
Moordale Road Cardiff UD
both copied from the birth certificate. I always thought that the family was in the Grangetown/ Tiger bay area. Mam tells of being in the year below Shirley Bassey at school.
-
I guess it must stand for Urban District, but I'm not sure. Urban Districts were usually small towns, while Cardiff has had city status since 1905.
You're right on Grangetown - Moordale Road is there, although Cowbridge Road (depending on where in a very long road it is) is either Canton or Ely.
But if your mum was in the same school as Shirley Bassey, that suggests she lived in Splott, the other side of Butetown ("Tiger Bay") from Grangetown. Despite the legend of Bassey the girl from Tiger Bay, she left there when she was two and was raised in Splott (I assume that name was not quite as romantic-sounding!).
I believe she went to school at Moorland and later at Splott Secondary: are you sure it wasn't Moorland Road your mother lived?
Gareth
-
Hi, I was getting very confused.
The birth cert says
Born at Cowbridge Road
Residence of informants is Moordale Road
Mum always described herself as coming from Clive Street/ Tiger Bay/ Grangetown - depending on who she was talking to. Each of these seem to be in a different area, which means trying to trace the family is impossible. Her father was Danish, so tracing him is very difficult.
-
Perhaps the "born at Cowbridge Road" means she was born at St David's Hospital, which is in that road (it's now fancy flats), though I'm not sure if it was ever a maternity hospital.
Presumably the informants were her parents, so the family home was in Moordale Road.
Clive Street is Grangetown, OK, and not far from Moordale Road.
Perhaps there was a little bit of wishful thinking when it comes to the Bay and La Bassey! Grangetown is the other side of the river from Butetown (Tiger Bay) and somehow lacked the glamour and feeling of walking on the wild side that we used to get on the occasions we went down the Bay.
Gareth
-
I have discovered that my mam could 'massage' the truth to suit herself, so I approach my memories of her with great care.
The address at Cowbridge Road was 30A, I've presumed it was the midwife's as this is before the NHS adn it wsn't compulsory to go to hospital as it was in later years.
-
I'm not too far from Cowbridge Road, so, as it's stopped raining, the sun's coming out and I need to call at Tescos, I'll go around that way and check what No 30 looks like. See you later!
Gareth
-
OH
Thankyou.
:)
-
There's no sign of a No 30 (let alone 30A); it would have been on the north side of Cowbridge Road, roughly where the hospital is.
But I've discovered that it only became a hospital in 1948 as part of the new NHS. It was built in 1839 as a workhouse and after 1930 the city council took it over as City Lodge Public Assistance Institution.
A map from the 1880s shows there were houses along the road on the city side of the place, so No 30 was probably one of them. They've all been demolished and replaced by new blocks of flats and offices.
Gareth
-
Many, many thanks .
off to google City Lodge Public Assistance Institution now.
If you need any info about Paddington/ west London, thats where I'm based now, so feel free to ask.
Again many thanks.
-
I've just googled City Lodge Public Assistance Institution
and am amazed.
I'm laughing and crying at the same time.
How the heck do I tell the family???
many, many thanks again.
I also managed to find some photo's on the web which are fascinating.
-
Unless you find some other evidence I wouldn't assume that your mother was born in the Institution. There must be about 400/500 yards of road before the first numbered building today (No 56 I think it was) and as I said the old map shows there was a row of houses near the hospital building.
If it turns out she was born there, she has had some celebrated people following in her wake: the main (listed) building is now luxury flats. Charlotte Church had one of them before buying a house and moving in with her Gav, while Billie Piper rented another while filming Dr Who.
Regards, Gareth
-
I am keeping an open mind but knowing my mother's secrecy abouy her past nothing would surprise me. Would they put the Institution on the Birth certificate or would they put the address, as every one would know the Institution and the feelings attached to it?
More googling and research I think.
-
Do you know the names of the informants on the birth cert? I was assuming they were her parents, but if they were and had a house in Moordale Road why would she be born in the Institution? If she was born at the Institution, it would presumably have been the staff there who would register her - and they would most likely have given the Institution address rather than that of a private house.
I don't want to dampen your horror/excitement at the possibility, but I still think it's unlikely she was born at the Institution.
Perhaps you could try the electoral register for the appropriate year and see if there were any voters listed under 30A.
Gareth
-
I will do that. Well find someone who can look for me!
The informants were both parents.
The date of the registration is 24/11 and the DoB is 9/10 so they left it to the last minute. I wonder if her mother had a difficult pregnancy and/or delivery and needed more medical help than a midwife could provide and/or there wasn't the money to pay for the Doctor. No NHS in those days.
-
Oh, all right then!
I'm planning to visit the local record office either tomorrow or Wednesday (depending on the weather) - let me know which year your mother was born and if I have time I'll check out who (or what) was at 30A then.
Regards,
Gareth
-
Hi, Mum was born in 1937. If you could look it would be brilliant, many thanks. I hope the weather is a bit dryer in Cardiff than London! Didn't the Blues do well against Wasps on Saturday? Even if the BBC managed to miss the first try of the second half due to technical difficulties!
Karen.
-
Glad to see you're a Blues fan. Ironically, I had to settle for watching it on tape as I'm also a Cardiff City supporter and I was at Ninian Park seeing us go even further ahead at the top of the Championship :)
I'll report back tomorrow afternoon.
Gareth
-
Hi Karen,
First, the records office didn't have any electoral rolls between 1890 and 1947!
I was directed to the central library, which is currently housed in a load of portakabins while a new home is built as part of massive city centre development, and had my doubts whether half their records would be available. But yes, the rolls were there ... and ...
There's no sign of 30A Cowbridge Road. But - No 30 is home to a William Treseder, whose family ran a nursery (plants not kids) on the site until comparatively recently. And it's next door to the City Lodge.
So either your mother was born in one of Treseder's greenhouses or she may well have been in the Lodge, with, as you suggested, the 30A used to disguise the fact. A look at the 1940 Ordnance Survey map shows that the main building of the complex was marked as a hospital, so it may be they took patients (maternity patients anyway) from outside.
I'll ask around to see if anyone knows. Also, as the City Lodge was run by the council, there should be records of admissions and so forth at the record office, so if you like I'll ask next time I'm in there. (You'll have to give me her name and her parents' names if you want me to do that. PM me if you don't want them out for public consumption.)
Regards, Gareth
-
You're a star :)
PM on its way to you.
-
I know I'm a bit late to this discussion, but thought it would be useful to say that 30A Cowbridge Road, Cardiff was a fictitious address used to disguise the origins of people born in a workhouse. This fact comes from http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?about/addresses.shtml and while I'm not associated in any way with http://www.workhouses.org.uk/ I must warn you that it's a really interesting site, so don't start reading it late at night if you have to go to work in the morning...
Martin
-
Many thanks, with other information I've received since doing this thread, your information makes sense.
-
Hello
There was a maternity unit at the City Lodge in Cowbridge Road Cardiff
and the name was changed to St Davids Hospital when it was transfered to the NHS in 1948.
My son was born there in 1958 and it was an excellent place to have
a baby.
Sylvia
-
My stepfather was born there in the mid 20s and it was renamed/reclassified in 1930. I'm not *that* familiar with Cardiff, but I believe this is the hospital where my grandfather was treated for cancer in 1970/1 and it was, as you say a a fine place if still slightly intimidating for the 8 year old me.
Martin
-
Hello
If you go to Roots Web places of interest Cardiff you will see a photograph of the City Lodge and it is No.31a.
Sylvia
-
I should have said No 30a
Sylvia
-
I have to say the new building looks a bit bland compared with the old one!
There's a nice 2006 pic (of part the old one) and a bit of history here http://www.flickr.com/photos/roath_park_mark/142062518/
Martin