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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: Karen Mapp on Tuesday 26 September 06 08:28 BST (UK)

Title: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Karen Mapp on Tuesday 26 September 06 08:28 BST (UK)
Does anybody else have any links to this family in Deal. My line comes from Maurice Henry Cory, who married into the Pitcher's. Maurice's father was Thomas William Cory who was married to Elizabeth Ann.
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Bill749 on Tuesday 26 September 06 16:15 BST (UK)
Hi Karen

No link to your family but let me know if you would like me to chase up any of these lines in the Deal registers.

Best wishes, Bill
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: AJ100 on Saturday 21 May 11 16:26 BST (UK)
Helo Karen

Recently joined Rootschat so several yearsa out of date with your request for Corys. Are you still looking?
I am not a Cory but have a lot of information re Deal families.

Your Maurice (Morris in PR) Henry CORY was baptised 5/3/1871 to Thomas Wiliam & Elizabeth Ann CORY, Boatman of 7, Bulwark Row.
They had several other children: Edward, Harriet, Mary, Richard, Sarah, Thomas & Thomas.

I realise this information may be well out of date but if I can be of any more help please let me know,

Regards

AJ
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Jeff Holzgrefe on Wednesday 19 October 11 15:41 BST (UK)
Hi Karen,

I've been asked by a member of my family to research her family tree.  She is the daughter of Wallace James Bailey (1911-1944) and Elizabeth Rose Pitcher (1913-2001) of Deal, Kent.

I saw your postings here and wondered if you would be so kind as to share with her (via me) anything you may have discovered about her family?

I can supply you with details of her descendants if you are interested.  Maybe some family photos too.

Many thanks for considering this request.

Jeff Holzgrefe
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: AJ100 on Thursday 20 October 11 11:50 BST (UK)
Hello Jeff
If you would like me to supply Parish record details for Pitcher/Bailey please let me know

AJ
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Jeff Holzgrefe on Thursday 20 October 11 14:52 BST (UK)
Hi AJ,

Thanks for your extremely prompt and positive reply to my inquiry about the Bailey/Pitcher family.:D

It would be stupendously helpful if you could give me any information you have on this family, including of course the relevant parish records. 

I'm pretty much starting from scratch on this and really don't want to duplicate work that has in all likelihood already been done by others.

Would you please be so kind as to send me a GEDCOM file, though I would be massively grateful to receive anything in whatever form you have to hand?

Once again, thank you ever so much for your most generous offer of assistance!

With best wishes,

Jeff Holzgrefe
     
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: AJ100 on Thursday 20 October 11 17:19 BST (UK)
Hello Jeff

Glad to be of assistance. I shall send them in batches as there are quite a lot of them and it takes some time to track them down.

6/2/1932 at St Andrew's Church, Deal
Wallace James BAILEY, 20, Miner of 64, Middle Street, Deal, son of Charles Henry BAILEY, Boatman, Deceased
married Elizabeth Rose PITCHER, 18, Domestic Servant of 16, College Road, Deal, daughter of Herbert Lewis PITCHER, Labourer

Children of Charles Henry & Annie BAILEY, all baptised at St George's. Charles' occupations and addresses are shown on the right. A Boatman is the same as Waterman. He moved house a great deal.

19/6/1904 (born 21/5/1905)  Charles Henry       s/o Charles Henry & Annie BAILEY, Waterman of 12, Princes Street
  3/6/1906     (18/4/1906)      William John                                                                   Boatman of 10. Market Street
22/9/1907     (3/9/1907)        Robert Isaac                                                                  Boatman of Primrose Hill
17/3/1909     (17/2/1909)      Caroline Elizabeth                                                         Waterman of 25, Middle Street
11/6/1911     (24/5/1911)      Walace James                                                                Boatman of 10, Chapel Street
  8/2/1914     (1/1/1914)        Queenie Ivy                                                                   Boatman of 27, Middle Street
  9/4/1916     (11/2/1916)      Reginald Frederick                                                         Waterman of 27, Middle Street
14/9/1919     (20/8/1919)      Benjamin John                                                               Boatman of 64, Middle Street
  8/6/1924     (3/5/1924)       Phyllis Irene                                                                   Waterman of 64, Middle Street 

Next batch parents of Charles Henry will follow soon.

Regards

AJ     

Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Jeff Holzgrefe on Thursday 20 October 11 19:14 BST (UK)
Dear AJ,

Thanks so much!!!

Jeff
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: AJ100 on Friday 21 October 11 14:53 BST (UK)
Not at all, Jeff.
I'm doing them in generations as it's easier.
Incidentally, I found a Rosemary Bailey, d/o Wallace and Elizabeth, born 1945, but I expect you know about her.

Here's Charles Henry's parents and siblings:

Children of John Springhall BAILEY & Sarah Ann all baptised at St Andrew's Church, Deal. John was a Bricklayer's Labourer then Labourer living in West Street, Deal at nos 3, 35, and 34. Latterly at 6, Western Road.
Dates are of Baptism, not birth.

20/5/1881    Frederick John
19/1/1883    Charles Henry
29/5/1885    George William
28/1/1887    Edith Mary
  6/4/1888    Esther Lucy
30/6/1890    Florence Sarah
  7/4/1892    William Albert
30/11/1894 (born 15/8/1895)  Walter James

More to follow

Regards
AJ

Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: AJ100 on Friday 21 October 11 15:51 BST (UK)
Hello Jeff,
Here's part 3. Ignore the differences in the spelling of Bailey.

30/6/1855 St George's Church, Deal.
George Larkins BAYLY, Horse Keeper of Middle Street, son of William BAYLEY, Waterman
married Jane Elizabeth BROWN of West Street, daughter of Thomas BROWN, Labourer

Children of George and Jane Elizabeth BAILEY. George's occupation and adress on right. Dates, as usual, are of Baptism.

10/10/1855    John Springhall     (St Andrew's)                                    Flyman, Peter Street
  7/3/1858      Sarah Jane           (St George's)                                    Ostler, Primrose Hill
  1/7/1860      Emma Elizabeth   (St George's)                                    Coachman, Primrose Hill

Unhappy about the next as there is a 15 year gap. There are no baptisms in other churches. The occupations are compatible so I will put them in. All Baptised St George's.
 
  4/2/1875      Emily Elizabeth                                                             Carman, S.E.R, 4.Gravel Walk
  8/6/1877      Jane Ethel                                                                    Carman, S.E.R, 4, Gravel Walk   
11/5/1879      George William                                                             Carman, S.E.R  40, Wellington Road
10/8/1881      Frederick James                                                            Carman, S.E.R  40, Wellington Road
  8/9/1886      Esther Louisa                                                               Carman, S.E.R.  40, Wellington Road   

Regards

AJ             
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Jeff Holzgrefe on Friday 21 October 11 16:38 BST (UK)
Dear AJ,

Thank you ever so much for the latest information on the Baileys of Deal.

Unfortunately, there may be a problem here.  There's a discussion of this family in another post "Marriage Look-up Please" on RootsChat.com (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,185451.0.html).  Long story short; although Charles HENRY Bailey and Annie Pitcher are listed as the parents of Wallace James Bailey, the only recorded marriage is between Charles ROBERT Bailey and Annie Pitcher in 1903.  Charles Henry Bailey and Charles ROBERT Bailey are two different chaps who happened to be born live, and work in Deal at exactly the same time.  Karen Mapp who began this post thinks that the marriage certificate is correct and the birth certificate is wrong and I'm inclined to agree.  What do you think?

Regards,

Jeff Holzgrefe

 
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: AJ100 on Friday 21 October 11 17:34 BST (UK)
Very puzzling, Jeff

The marriage records of St George's after 1880 are lost and Charles and Annie didn't marry in any other local church.
Baptism records show children for Charles Henry & Annie where he is names as Charles Henry on every entry, but none at all for Charles Robert.
Very mysterious how the Robert got in there - I can't find a mention of him at all.

Regards

AJ
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: AJ100 on Saturday 22 October 11 16:45 BST (UK)
Dear Jeff

Have given this much thought since yesterday, examined PR's again and come up with the same answer.

Karen Mapp says her Great Grandmother was Elizabeth Rose Pitcher whom Wallace James Bailey had married. I have traced Wallace's line backwards from there and am happy that the line I have is the right one.

I can find no mention in the Parish Records of Charles Robert Bailey, indicating that, while he may well have lived in Deal, he did not produce any offspring. Nor was he baptised here. Another Charles Henry, a Charles Stephen, two Harry's and a Charles Herbert but no Charles Robert.

If you are happy that the person known as Charles Henry is the one relevant to your enquiry, I will continue to provide information.
It is my opinion that Charles Robert is nothing to do with this family line, though possibly connected further back.

Should you wish, I will send part 4, parents and siblings of George Larkins BAYLY.

Kind Regards

AJ
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Jeff Holzgrefe on Tuesday 25 October 11 18:34 BST (UK)
Dear AJ,

You are almost certainly correct about Charles HENRY Bailey being the father of Wallace James Bailey.  Nevertheless, just to be entirely certain, I think I'll send off for the marriage certificate of Annie Pitcher and Charles R. Bailey of 1903.  It could be that the groom's name in the index is incorrect (http://extranet3.kent.gov.uk/sp/rois/details.cfm?Submit=Marriage&Register=D/15/2%20%20%20%20&Entry_Number=146%20%20&Forename=Annie%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&Surname=PITCHER).  I'll let you know what, if anything, I discover.

In the meantime, would you be so kind as to research the Pitcher line of the family?  Perhaps that may be simpler.

Once again thanks for all your help.

Jeff Holzgrefe

 
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: AJ100 on Wednesday 26 October 11 12:32 BST (UK)
Thank you for that, Jeff. Will contact when I have  discovered relevant info.

egards

AJ
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Karen Mapp on Thursday 27 October 11 08:41 BST (UK)
Good morning, I already have the marriage certificate - somewhere amongst all my paperwork. I'm in the process of sorting through it to pass on to Jeff and am more than happy to send it to you too, or upload, whichever is the preference. Will aim to sort it out by the weekend. As a side note, the Pitcher's come into the family a couple of times.
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Karen Mapp on Thursday 27 October 11 08:54 BST (UK)
Just found it - from a moment of inspiration of realising where I put it. Details as follows :- Charles Robert Bailey (19) married Annie Pitcher (21). Fathers were Willie Bailey and John Pitcher, both watermen - so would fit with Charles Henry. 6th September 1903.

Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Jeff Holzgrefe on Thursday 27 October 11 13:19 BST (UK)
Thanks Karen,

I'll continue to process all this and get back to you.

Best ones,

Jeff
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Jeff Holzgrefe on Thursday 27 October 11 14:05 BST (UK)
Dear AJ,

A quick question.  Can you please confirm the birth and baptismal dates for Charles Henry Bailey 1 son of Charles Henry & Annie BAILEY, Waterman of 12, Princes Street?  There's a 12 month difference between the birth and baptismal dates you posted above (19/6/1904 (born 21/5/1905)  Charles Henry s/o Charles Henry & Annie BAILEY, Waterman of 12, Princes Street).

Many thanks,

Jeff
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: AJ100 on Thursday 27 October 11 16:03 BST (UK)
Dear Jeff

Pig's Ear, there. Apologies. Charles Henry BAILEY was baptised at St George's. Deal on 19th June 1904.
His birthdate is shown as 21st May 1904 - I obviously put the wrong year. Promise to do better next time.

Details of Annie PITCHER on way in a minute or two - I'm reseaching three families at once and lose track of who wants what.

Oh Dear

AJ
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: AJ100 on Thursday 27 October 11 16:53 BST (UK)
Hello again, Jeff,

Here's what I've found  out about Annie PITCHER's family.
St Andrew's, Deal
19/2/1877  John PITCHER 20, Boatman of 3, George Street, son of George PITCHER, Labourer
      married Emma Elizabeth STANTON 20, Domestic Servant of 1, King's Arms Alley, daughter of John STANTON, Boatman.
Their children, baptised at St Andrew's:

11/9/1878  William John       while John was living at 100, Middle Street. Slight hesitation over this as his wife is recorded as Emily.
18/2/1881  John                                                             3, Ivy Place
16/2/1883  Annie                                                          17, Dolphin Street
  5/8/1885  Emma Elizabeth                                          17, Dolphin Street
Baptised at St George's:
18/6/1890  Ada Emily                                                      4. Silver Street
28/8/1892  Dorothy Blanche                                         13, Silver Street
  7/4/1895  Daisy                                                                Silver Street
15/1/1899  Benjamin Walter   born 7/12/1898                   Silver Street

29/6/1903 Morrison MARSH 20, Fish Hawker  of 9, Golf Road, son of George MARSH, Fish Hawker
     married Emma Elizabeth PITCHER of 13, Silver Street daughter of John PITCHER, Boatman. Witnesses: Charles BAILEY, Annie PITCHER

St George's Baptisms for the children of William John & Emma PITCHER, Waterman, 5, Farrier Street
  9/9/1903  William Henry   born 10/9/1900                     
  9/9/1903  Sydney Albert   born 6/8/1903                       
23/2/1906  Gladys Annie                                                    5, Ivy Place
  4/11/1908  Elsie Mary                                                       5, Griffin Street

Though there is no record of John's birth there is a baptism for St Andrew's on 27/3/1869 for an Edward PITCHER, son of George & Anne, Labourer of George Street. Possible for John's younger brother but no solid evidence.

I cannot find any further records of John & Annie's children nor the marriage of his father, George, suggesting that they might have moved into the area then moved out again.

Regards

AJ


Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Jeff Holzgrefe on Saturday 29 October 11 19:16 BST (UK)
Dear AJ,

Thanks for the info on the Pitcher line.  I haven't had a chance to digest it yet as I've been chipping away at the Charles HENRY Bailey problem.  I'm pleased to report that I have finally discovered who his parents are.  They are, as I suspected but couldn't definitively prove, William Henry Bailey and Caroline Elizabeth Bailey.  I found the smoking gun in the 1911 census (attached below).  As you can see, Charles Henry Bailey (age 26) was married to Annie Bailey (age 28).  They had been married 7 years and had had four children of whom only Charles Henry (age 6) and Caroline (age 2) survived.  (Note that their other two children William John and Robert Isaac both died before the 1911 census).  In short, everything above is consistent with what is known about the Charles Bailey who was the son of William Henry Bailey and Caroline Elizabeth Bailey.

What proves my claim, however, is that the census also reports that Charles Henry's two brothers, Robert Isaac (age 23) and Wallace James (age 28) were living with him at 10 Chapel St. Deal on census night.  This fits, firstly, with the Wallace J Bailey who was the son of William H Bailey and Caroline E Bailey and hence the brother of Charles R Bailey according to the 1891 census (attached).  Further confirmation that Wallace James Bailey was the son of William H Bailey and Caroline Elizabeth Bailey can be found in fact that a Wallace James Bailey, son of Willie Henry Bailey and Caroline Bailey, was baptised on 2 Apr 1884 at St. George's Church, Deal.  (This would make Wallace 28 at the time of the 1911 census).  Second, Robert Isaac Bailey, another son of Willie Henry Bailey and Caroline Bailey, was baptised on 15 Oct 1891 in Deal.  The 1891 Census also makes Charles Robert Bailey 26 at the time of the 1911 Census as was Charles Henry Bailey.

I think the above conclusively demonstrates that the Charles HENRY Bailey who was the father of Wallace James Bailey (b 1911). and the Charles ROBERT Bailey who married Annie Pitcher in 1903 and who, according to the 1891 census, was the son of William Henry Bailey and Caroline Elizabeth Bailey was one and the same person.

Let me know what you think.

Jeff Holzgrefe

Copyright images removed.   Only small sections can be posted for deciphering purposes. 
 
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Karen Mapp on Saturday 29 October 11 20:30 BST (UK)
Hi,

I also came across the 1911 entry. Which I agree, does show my initial feeling to be correct. Would be interesting to find a death certificate or other corresponding eveidence to support it as well. However the next step is to find Robert - William H's father and locate the mother :)
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: AJ100 on Sunday 30 October 11 16:53 GMT (UK)
Hello Jeff
Well done on your deductions. I have checked and cannot find Charles Henry baptised to William Henry & Caroline. Doesn't mean much in itself - people went away and had children in other towns.
If you are right, I have rounded up a few more  details.

On 21/10/1880 Willy Henry BAILEY, 24, Waterman of St George's, son of Robert BAILEY, Waterman
 married at St George's Church Caroline Elizabeth CLEMENTS, 26, Widow of St George's, daughter of James BAILEY, Waterman
           Witnesses: W.H.HARRIS, Sgt. R.M., May HARRIS

Children of William Henry & Caroline BAILEY, Waterman all baptised at St George's Church, Deal. As always, dates are of baptism.

  3/7/1881  Willie Henry              26, Middle Street
24/5/1882  Mary Ann Sutton      24, Middle Street
  2/4/1884  Walace James                Custom House Lane
11/2/1885  George Robert               Custom House Lane
27/10/1886  George Henry              Custom House Lane
15/10/1891  Robert Isaac           11, Market Street
  4/12/1893  Harry                       11, Market Street

19/4/1876 St George's: Thomas John CLEMENTS, 23, Waterman, son of John CLEMENTS, Painter
married Caroline Elizabeth BAILEY, 23, daughter of James BAILEY, Waterman
Witnesses: Harvey BAILEY, Mary CLEMENTS
Caroline was baptised 17/4/1857 to James Thomas & Maryanne BAILEY, Waterman of 6, Oak Street

Possible for Willie's father is Robert Mummery & Catherine Susanna Elizabeth BAILEY, Waterman of Chapel Lane.
2 relevant baptisms: 18/3/1857 William Henry and 2/12/1859 William James. Stating the obvious, the first one must have died for there to have been a second William and that William is not William Henry.

Don't know if this will be of any use

Regards

AJ

 
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Jeff Holzgrefe on Tuesday 01 November 11 13:08 GMT (UK)
Hello AJ,

You don't you if any of this will be of use?  Are you kidding?  You have solved yet another mystery!

William Henry Bailey's mother was indeed Caroline Elizabeth Bailey.  The smoking gun is the 1881 Census which reveals all three generations living together at 26 Middle St Deal -- James Thomas Bailey, his wife Mary Ann, their daughter Caroline Elizabeth and her son William Henry.  Thank you so much.  I would never have thought to look for an earlier marriage. 

Sad story, by the way.  It appears that Caroline Elizabeth got married, had a son, lost her son, and then her husband all within two months in 1876 (she married one week before she gave birth presumably to ensure that her child would be legitimate).

I haven't had a chance to research your Robert Mummery Bailey hypothesis.  I'll let you know what I uncover.

Once again thank you for all your help.  I simply couldn't have done it without you.

Jeff
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: AJ100 on Tuesday 01 November 11 17:38 GMT (UK)
Glad to be of help, Jeff.

Regards

AJ
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Jeff Holzgrefe on Saturday 05 November 11 16:49 GMT (UK)
Dear AJ,

I've run into a something of brick wall searching for William Henry BAILEY's parents.

As you discovered from the registry entry for his marriage at St. George's Parish Church, Deal on Oct 21, 1880, William Henry's father was a waterman by the name of Robert BAILEY.

You also raised the possibility that Robert Mummery BAILEY, Waterman of Chapel Lane, Deal, and his wife Catherine Susanna Elizabeth BAILEY may be William Henry's parents.  Evidence consists of the fact that Robert Mummery BAILEY and Catherine Susanna Elizabeth BAILEY had two sons, William Henry, and William James, who were baptised in Deal on 18 March, 1857 and 2 December, 1859 respectively.  This fits nicely with William Henry BAILEY's age of 24 and his father's name and occupation recorded in his marriage entry. 

However, you dismiss the possibility that this Robert and Catherine were William Henry's parents because their first child "must have died for there to have been a second William and that William is not William Henry."

Normally, I'd agree without hesitation, but there is nothing normal about the BAILEY family!  For instance, according to the 1891 Census, William H. BAILEY, age 41, had a younger brother Willie H. BAILEY, age 39 (and a wife Caroline Elizabeth BAILEY, age 40, and sons Wallace James BAILEY, Robert Isaac BAILEY and Willie R. BAILEY) living with him at 10 Market St. Deal on census night.  While the birth dates (abt 1850 and abt 1852 versus 1857 and 1859) fit poorly with the William Henry BAILEY and the William James BAILEY who were the sons of Robert Mummery BAILEY, you do have the truly bizarre coincidence that in 1891 my William Henry BAILEY had a brother, two years younger than he, who possessed virtually the same name.  In other words, it seems to me that Robert Mummery BAILEY and Catherine Susanna Elizabeth BAILEY had two sons, William and Willie, born two years apart, who both lived to adulthood.

I've looked for supporting evidence for this hypothesis (and for anything on Robert Mummery BAILEY and Catherine Susanna Elizabeth BAILEY generally), but have drawn a blank.  It is not that I just cannot find any supporting evidence.  The problem is I haven't found anything which disproves my suspicion that Robert Mummery BAILEY is William Henry BAILEY's father either.

Two questions: in light of the above, do you still think that Robert Mummery BAILEY and Catherine Susanna Elizabeth BAILEY can't William Henry BAILEY's parents?  And if so, do you have any additional evidence that decides the matter one way or the other?

Once again, my very deepest thanks for all your assistance with my research.

With best wishes,

Jeff 
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: AJ100 on Wednesday 09 November 11 15:52 GMT (UK)
Dear Jeff
Apologies for  my late reply - snowed under with requests to the point I can't remember who is looking for which family. That fills you with confidence, doesn't it?

In answer to you last question, I have tracked down the children of Robert Mummery BAILEY and Catherine Susannah Elizabeth.

  7/12/1855  Robert George  (born 30/11/1852)       Chapel Street
  7/12/1855  Isaac John                                             Chapel Street
18/3/1857  William Henry                                           Chapel Lane
10/8/1859  Thomas James                                         Chapel Street
  2/12/1859  William James                                        Chapel Street
These last were baptised after Robert had died and obviously born much earlier
14/9/1871  Caroline Eliza  (born c1862)                     Middle Street
14/9/1871  Harry                                                        Middle Street
14/9/1871  Charles                                                    Middle Street

Fairly conclusive evidence that Robert & Catherine had 2 sons called William and who, by your Census account, lived to adulthood. Never come across it before but nothing surprises me in this line. One lives and learns.

William Henry & Caroline Elizabeth's children were: (I can't remember if I gave them to you, but here they are in case)

  3/7/1881  Williy Henry                                             26, Middle Street
24/5/1882  Mary Ann Sutton                                     26, Middle Street
  2/4/1884  Walace James                                         Custom House Lane
11/2/1885  George Robert                                        Custom House Lane           
27/10/1886  George Henry                                        Custom House Lane
15/10/1891  Robert Isaac                                      11, Market Street
  4/12/1893  Harry                                                  11, Market Street

Am unable to find tthe birth of Robert Mummery BAILEY - have found Robert Long BAILEY but that's not the same.
Hope this helps

AJ
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Jeff Holzgrefe on Wednesday 16 November 11 16:27 GMT (UK)
Dear AJ,

My apologies for being so tardy in thanking you for your last post which certainly settled, in my own mind at least, the parentage of William Henry BAILEY.  I've been out of town on business.

I'm in the home stretch now.  I have done as much research as I think I'm going to on this family.  Only a couple of loose ends to tie up.  Any help you can give me will once again be hugely appreciated.

Loose end number 1:

I'm trying to find the parents of Elizabeth Ann MAY, the wife of Thomas William CORY (1832-1914).  Family historians give her three or four different sets of parents, but having checked as many sources as I can, I can't find proof one way or another.  Here's what I do know:

16 Nov 2011                   Family Group Sheet
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Wife: Elizabeth Ann May   #5796  died at age: 59
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Born: abt 1835             in Ramsgate, Kent, England  1,2
          Died: 1894                 in Deal, Kent, England  3
      Baptized: 22 Feb 1835          in Margate, Kent, England  4
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       Husband: Thomas William Cory    #5795  died at age: 82
       Married: 19 Oct 1857          in     her age: 22  his age: 25 5
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          Born: 1832                 in Deal, Kent, England  6
      Baptized: 25 May 1832          in Deal, Kent, England  7
          Died: 3 Mar 1914           in Deal, Kent, England 
    Occupation:                      Boatman, Mariner  8,9
        Father: Richard Cory #5804
        Mother: Ann Clayson Langley #5805

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     F Child 1: Mary Ann Norris Cory #5799 
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     F Child 2: Sarah Sackett Cory #5801 
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     M Child 3: Thomas Edward Cory #5847 
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     M Child 4: Richard William Cory #5800  died at age: 74
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     M Child 5: Edward John Cory #5797 
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     M Child 6: William Henry Worthington Cory #5846  died at age: 83
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     M Child 7: Maurice Henry Cory #5497 
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     F Child 8: Harriet Annie Cory #5798 
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     M Child 9: Thomas Edwin Cory #5802  died at age: 1
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(1) The Clayson Family Tree, (http://www.claysontree.com/AnnLangley.htm),
Accessed 5 Nov 2011.
(2) British Census 1871, Parish of Deal, Kent, England.
(3) England & Wales, Death Index, 1837-1915.
(4) Register of Baptisms, Marriages and Deaths, St. John the Baptist, Thanet, Margate, Kent,
England.
(5) Birth, Mariage & Death Certificates -- Kent -- 1837 to Present, Name:    CORY, Thomas , W ,
Year of Marriage:    1857
Entry Number:    79
Register:    D/14/1
Location:    Kent County Council.
(6) British Census 1841, Parish of Deal, County of Kent, England.
(8)RG11/ 998/ 37 p  35
(9) British Census 1911, Parish Deal, County of Kent.

Long story short, the 1871 Census gives Elizabeth Ann MAY's birthplace as Ramsgate and her birthdate around 1835.  An Elizabeth Ann May was also baptised at St. John the Baptist, Thanet, Margate on 22 Feb 1835.  And the Kent Birth, Marriage and Death certificates have her marrying Thomas William Cory on 19 Oct 1857.  If she were married in Deal there might be some information about her parents in the parish records.  If you have easy access to these records, I would be massively grateful if you could look her marriage up.

With best wishes,

Jeff Holzgrefe
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Jeff Holzgrefe on Wednesday 16 November 11 16:38 GMT (UK)
Dear AJ,

The second loose end is as follows:

I'm trying to find the parents of Elizabeth, wife of Edward HARRIS (b. 1837) and mother of Alice Elizabeth HARRIS (1872-1963).  I have neither found a marriage for her nor any mention of her maiden name in any of the sources I've checked.  Again, here's what I know:

16 Nov 2011                   Family Group Sheet
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Wife: Elizabeth   #5850 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Born: abt 1848             in Durham, England  1
        Father:
        Mother:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       Husband: Edward Harris    #5849 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Born: 1837                 in Smeeth, Kent, England  1,2
      Baptized: 22 Oct 1837          in Brabourne, Kent, England  3
        Father: James Harris #6185
        Mother: Amelia Bailey #6011
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     F Child 1: Alice Elizabeth Harris #5498 
      Baptized: 26 Dec 1872          in Folkestone, Kent, England  4,5,1
          Died: 1963                 in Thanet, Kent, England  6
        Spouse: Maurice Henry Cory  #5497  d. 1944 
       Married: abt 1891             in   7
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     F Child 2: Sarah Jane Harris #5851 
          Born: 1876                 in Dover, Kent, England  8
      Baptized: 26 March 1876        in Great Mongeham, Kent, England  9
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     F Child 3: Rose Harris #5852 
          Born: 1881                 in Folkestone, Kent, England  1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) British Census 1881, Parish Folkestone, County of Kent,
RG11/  1008/ 59 p  52
(2) British Census 1841, Parish of Smeeth, County of Kent, England, Name:
   Edward Harris
Age:    3
Estimated Birth Year:    abt 1838
Gender:    Male
Where born:    Kent, England
Civil parish:    Smeeth
Hundred:    Bircholt
County/Island:    Kent
Registration district:    East Ashford
Sub-registration district:    Brabourne
(4) British Census 1891, Parish Deal, County of Kent, Class: RG12; Piece: 738;
Folio 143; Page 39;
(5) England Birth and Christenings -- 1538-1975, (Family Search), Name:    Alice
Elizabeth Harris
Baptism/Christening Date:    26 Dec 1872
Baptism/Christening Place:    Folkestone, Kent, England
Father's Name:    Edward Harris
Mother's Name:    Elizabeth Harris
(6) England & Wales, Death Index, 1837-1915.
(7) British Census 1911, Parish Deal, County of Kent.
(8) British Census 1881, Parish Folkestone, County of Kent, Class:  RG11;
Piece:  1008; Folio:  59; Page:  52
(9) England Birth and Christenings -- 1538-1975, (Family Search), Name:    Sarah
Jane Harris
Baptism/Christening Date:    26 Mar 1876
Baptism/Christening Place:    Great Mongeham, Kent, England
Father's Name:    Edward Harris
Mother's Name:    Elizabeth Harris

Any help you can give me in solving this final, little mystery would be tremendously kind of you and enormously appreciated by me.

With thanks and best wishes,

Jeff Holzgrefe
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: AJ100 on Thursday 17 November 11 16:40 GMT (UK)
Dear Jeff
Thanks for the very interesting tree and details of your forebears. Do you have the exact dates of Thomas & Elizabeth Cory's children? I  have them if not.

Nothing at all for Elizabeth Harris or her parents. She does not appear in St Thomas (RC) register, St Leonard's or St George's. Neither is she at St Mary's Walmer or St Nicholas Sholden (adjoining parishes).

Something for Thomas Cory.

St Andrew's: 19 Oct 1857 Thomas William CORY, 25, Mariner of Alfred Square son of Richard CORY, Gardener
married Elizabeth Ann MAY. No details for Elizabeth
Witnesses were T.L.CORY and George LOWNDS

The following is supposition.
If Elizabeth was baptised in Deal the only person to fit the bill is
16 Jan 1835 Elizabeth Ann MAY illegitimate daughter of Sara MAY of Alfred Square.
Possible patents of Sara:
  2 June 1815 William MAY married Margaret PETT at St Mary's Church, Walmer.
Witnesses were: Elizabeth Kerwin & ohn Norris.
He was a labourer initially, becoming a Waterman then a Waterman by 1818 living in Walmer Road, now the Strand.
3/12/1815 (born 12/11/1815)  Mary Ann MAY
11/1/1818 (27/10/1818)  Elizabeth MAY
24/10/1819 (28/9/1819)  Sarah MAY
2/12/1821  (5/11/1821)  James MAY

A William MAY was washed up on the beach drowned on 5th Nov 1822 and is buried in St Mary's Churchyard

Possible parents for William:
James & Sarah MAY

1788 Edward MAY
1789  SArah MAY
1791  James MAY
1794  William MAY

There are no other possibles in the Deal registers for the above parents, It is, of course, possible that people moved in from out of town having been baptisd/married somewhere else in which case I wouldn't know about it.

I do hop this is some help

Regards

AJ




Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Jeff Holzgrefe on Thursday 17 November 11 23:13 GMT (UK)
Dear AJ,

Thanks for your heroic efforts in researching these family lines.  Unfortunately, I fear that I've sent you on a fool's errand.  There are just too many Elizabeth Ann MAYs born about 1835 floating around east Kent to conclusively establish her parentage.   Thank you so much for trying.  I would be most grateful though if you would be so kind as to forward the details of Thomas William CORY and Elizabeth Ann MAY's children.  That will do it for me.

Needless to say, if I can help you research something you only have to say the word.

All the very best,

Jeff Holzgrefe 
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: AJ100 on Friday 18 November 11 12:38 GMT (UK)
Dear Jeff

Sorry the information was of no use but here are the children of Thomas and Elizabeth Cory.

Baptised at St Andrew's Church, Deal. Thamos was a Mariner and various addresses are listed beside the baptisms.

  1/12/1858  Mary Ann Norris CORY                     Peter Street
  1/12/1861  Sarah Jackett CORY                         Bridge Row
  3/12/1862  Thomas Edward CORY                    Bridge Row
31/1/1864    Richard William CORY                      Lower Street
  8/2/1867    Edward John CORY                    62, Lower Street         
15/1/1869  William Henry Worthington CORY   7, Bulwark Road
  5/3/1871  Morris Henry CORY                         7, Bulwark Row
10/9/1873  Harriet Annie CORY                        7, Bulwark Row
17/8/1876  Thomas CORY                              78, Lower Street

Thank you for your kind offer of research on my behalf. I hope the above is of us to you

Kind Regards

AJ
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Jezb on Monday 09 July 12 21:39 BST (UK)
Dear Jeff
Thanks for the very interesting tree and details of your forebears. Do you have the exact dates of Thomas & Elizabeth Cory's children? I  have them if not.

Nothing at all for Elizabeth Harris or her parents. She does not appear in St Thomas (RC) register, St Leonard's or St George's. Neither is she at St Mary's Walmer or St Nicholas Sholden (adjoining parishes).

Something for Thomas Cory.

St Andrew's: 19 Oct 1857 Thomas William CORY, 25, Mariner of Alfred Square son of Richard CORY, Gardener
married Elizabeth Ann MAY. No details for Elizabeth
Witnesses were T.L.CORY and George LOWNDS

The following is supposition.
If Elizabeth was baptised in Deal the only person to fit the bill is
16 Jan 1835 Elizabeth Ann MAY illegitimate daughter of Sara MAY of Alfred Square.
Possible patents of Sara:
  2 June 1815 William MAY married Margaret PETT at St Mary's Church, Walmer.
Witnesses were: Elizabeth Kerwin & ohn Norris.
He was a labourer initially, becoming a Waterman then a Waterman by 1818 living in Walmer Road, now the Strand.
3/12/1815 (born 12/11/1815)  Mary Ann MAY
11/1/1818 (27/10/1818)  Elizabeth MAY
24/10/1819 (28/9/1819)  Sarah MAY
2/12/1821  (5/11/1821)  James MAY

A William MAY was washed up on the beach drowned on 5th Nov 1822 and is buried in St Mary's Churchyard

Possible parents for William:
James & Sarah MAY

1788 Edward MAY
1789  SArah MAY
1791  James MAY
1794  William MAY

There are no other possibles in the Deal registers for the above parents, It is, of course, possible that people moved in from out of town having been baptisd/married somewhere else in which case I wouldn't know about it.

I do hop this is some help

Regards

AJ






The George Lownds could be my great great uncle. i am re-searching the Lownds family in Deal any further information would be wonderful. My Great Great Great grandfather was John Lownds married to Sarah Ramell he was a tailor and lived in Lower Street Deal. 
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: AJ100 on Tuesday 10 July 12 15:55 BST (UK)
Hello Jezb

Hope this helps with your research:

John was a Tailor at first living in Duke Street, then briefly to Beach Street in 1815 after which he moved to Lower Street (now the High Street) by 1817.

Children of John LOWNDS and Sarah, nee RAMELL, all baptised at St George's Church, Deal. Dates are of baptism, not birth.

  9/7/1805  Mary Ann LOWNDS                                                                         5/3/1817  SArah Hawkins LOWNDS
24/2/1807  Susanna Redman LOWNDS                                                            6/6/1819  Richard LOWNDS
25/1/1809  William Thomas LOWNDS                                                               4/3/1821  Robert Ramell LOWNDS
15/2/1811  John Marlow LOWNDS     died 6/9/1819 Buried in St George's      5/9/1823  John James LOWNDS
20/1/1813  Elizabeth Whitehead LOWNDS                                                      7/6/1826  George LOWNDS
24/3/1815  Nathaniel LOWNDS                                                                        4/6/1828  Matthew LOWNDS

Marriages at St Leonard's Church, Deal:

29/4/1833  Elizabeth Whitehead LOWNDS to Thomas Wyborn DENNE
  4/4/1836  Susanna Redman LOWNDS to Daniel DOUGLAS
26/4/1847  Robert Ramell LOWNDS, Tailor of Lower St, s/o John, Tailor, to Sarah Mary CASTLE, d/o George, Boatbuilder
  3/11/1860 Robert Ramell LOWNDS, Widower, Tailor of Robert St, s/o John, to Hannah Chandler ARMSTRONG, Widow, d/o James KEMP
                                                                                                                                                                                                   Farmer
11/10/1848  Sarah Hawkins LOWNDS of Lower Street, d/o John, Tailor to Thomas MATTHEWS, Carpenter, s/o Thomas, Carpenter

Burials:

5/1/1836  John LOWNDS                Lower Street    84
29/3/1861  Sarah LOWNDS                King Street   78
30/9/1845  Wiliam Henry LOWNDS   Lower Street   6
19/6/1849  John LOWNDS               Queen Street  69
  6/1/1856  SArah Jane LOWNDS     Lower Street    1 month
  6/1/1856  Wiliam Robert LOWNDS  Lower Street   1 month

I have the children of Robert & Sarah and of George & Mary should you need them.  I hope this has been of some help

Regards

AJ
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Jezb on Tuesday 10 July 12 20:49 BST (UK)
AJ. Thanks very much for the info. Its has confirmed some of my findings and also added a lot more detail.  Do you have any information about Sarah Ramell parents / family.

I have a real interest in the Lownds side of my family as my middle name is Lownds. My great great grandfather was Richard Lownds born 1819 as confirmed by your findings. He moved to London from Deal around the time of his marriage in 1840 to a Lucy Clements from Lambeth. The strange thing is he changed his name to Williams, however, all his children were christened as Lownds and he and his wife are also recorded as Lownds on the childrens birth certificates. But, all the census records from 1841 onwards show the family as Williams and the children married as Williams. 

I cant find any reason or record why this change happend. Any clues??

Thank you so much for your help so far.
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: AJ100 on Wednesday 11 July 12 10:43 BST (UK)
Jezb

Glad the information was a help. Don't know why Richard changed his name to Williams - it seems to have been superficial, i.e. by word of mouth rather than by deed poll so it could have been for a reason of convenience. Lownds is not a usual name but Williams is so maybe he didn't want to stand out. One can only guess without documentary evidence.
I have occasionally come across a baptism with 'alias' by the surname. Whether this means they had changed their name like Richard I don't know but, while not common it was by no means unheard of.

Looked for Sarah Rammell. My records on one church only go back to 1775 on St Leonard's Church (work in progress) and assuming she wasn't born before that date then she wasn't baptised in Deal. Plenty of other Ramells from two main families, parents Nathaniel & Susanna and Ingram & Elizabeth. Both names in the first couple appear as children of John & Sarah. Also Redman, Susanna's (1807) middle name, was the name of one of Nathaniel's children. 

Interestingly, the only Sarah Ramell to appear was one who had an illegitmate child John Mitchell Ramell on 24/4/1803 baptised at St George's. She wasn't baptised in Deal, either.

Regards

AJ
Title: Re: Cory's from Deal
Post by: Jezb on Saturday 14 July 12 15:26 BST (UK)
AJ.  Thanks again. Yes, I think Richard changed his name to keep low! Thanks for the info on Sarah Ramell.