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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: purplemoon on Sunday 24 September 06 15:24 BST (UK)
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I've been tearing my hair out for several days now trying to figure out one of my families so thought I'd turn to you lovely people here to see if you might be able to shed any light on my findings. My month's free trial on Ancestry is almost up so I need to try sort this one out fairly quickly before I lose access to the full census details. Please bare with me as this could turn out a bit lengthy!
My gt grandmother is Evelyn THOMPSON b.1892 in Middlewich, Cheshire. Her parents are William and Bets(e)y (nee FRADLEY) THOMPSON who married in 1890 in Middlewich.
I can't find any census details for them in 1891 but by 1901 William has disappeared off the scene (died/divorced?) and Betsey is now living with James BURGESS (can't find any marriage details and have searched from 1890-1990) in Warrington, Lancs with step-daughter Evelyn THOMPSON (age 8) and their son John BURGESS (age 1).
If I have the right William then he shows up on the 1901 census aged 35 and living as a boarder with his BIL Joseph SPROSTON in Middlewich. I've yet to confirm that this is my William though (parents Thomas and Martha THOMPSON of Middlewich).
Now, going back to Betsy FRADLEY - I can only find one birth record to fit the time period which has her b.1872 in Wolstanton, Staffs (6b 142) and I believe that her parents might be John and Elizabeth FRADLEY both born in Stone, Staffs c.1835/6.
I can place John and Elizabeth on the 1861 census living on a boat on the canal in Burslem, Staffs but by 1871 they have moved to Barnton, Cheshire but are still living on a boat. This poses me a problem as Betsy was born the following year in 1872 but her birth was registered at Wolstanton, Staffs - could they have gone back there to register her?
Do you think I'm on the right tracks? I'm thinking maybe I should order Betsey and William's marriage cert to check on parentage but I still need to find them on the 1891 census - can anyone help with that please?
I would also like to find out whether Betsey and James BURGESS ever married - is it possible that she just took his name? - but Lancashire and Cheshire BMD's have both drawn a blank so far, as has Ancestry!
Many thanks for reading and I appreciate any help/insight anyone can offer me with this as I'd like to fill in the missing blanks if possible :)
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Hi
This any good ???
1891
William Thomson Head M 26 General Labourer Cheshire Middlewitch
Betty Thompson Wife M 20 Staffordshire Stone
Thomas H. Thompson Son 2M Cheshire Middlewitch
Queen? St., Middlewitch
RG12/2842 folio 23 page 12
Have also found William Thompson aged 24, Bricklayer, living with parents Thomas and Martha in 1891 - RG12/2842 folio 67 page 4, Towns End, Newton, Middlewitch. Will post details if you need them.
Have looked at 1901 - the William boarding with Sprostons is also a bricklayer, so this could be him :-\
Getting the marriage certificate for William and Betsey would be a very good idea, save yourself going round in circles and off on the wrong track ::)
Regards
Susan
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I did look at that 1891 census entry last night as I wondered if maybe somebody had transcribed Betty incorrectly, but on inspection it is definitely written as Betty and not Betsy, plus I couldn't fit in a Thomas H Thompson anywhere, so I discarded it.
However, I've just checked the deaths index on CheshireBMD and there is a Thomas Henry Thompson listed for 1891 but it doesn't give an age. I guess the only way to be sure would be to try and obtain his death certificate to see if he died as an infant. I'll keep this one in mind, thank you very much for prompting me to take a second look.
Ohhhh, how silly of me ... I've just checked Evelyn's birth certificate again and she was indeed born in Queen Street!!!! I think you've found my family! THANK YOU!!!! ;D
The second William you found is the one that I originally thought had married Betsy and I have researched the entire family's details spanning nearly the whole of the 1800's, but it seems I may have been onto a red herring there!
I do have a very strong feeling about that family though so haven't discounted the possibility of there being a connection somewhere, but for now I'm going to go back and do some more research on the other William you found for me.
Thank you so much again for your help :)
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Oh btw, I'm having difficulty transcribing the occupation of William from the birth certificate ... the second word is clearly "labourer" but the first word appears to be "Alkab" ???
It definitely starts "Al" as the registrar is called Alfred and the letters are identical, but nowhere on the certificate has he written a lower case "k" or "b" to compare. I have however, spotted a few entries on census details written as "Alk" labourer so wondered if anyone might know what this could mean?
Cheers :)
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Hi
There are Ag. Labs (Argicultural Labourers) :-\ Alk ? don't know unless it was something to do with chemicals? Can you scan and post the bit of the certificate you can't read, there will be someone on here who will be able to decipher it ;)
I had a look at 1901 for Thomas H. Thompson b 1891 but couldn't find him and had thought perhaps he had died and Evelyn was their second child.
Regards
Susan
and .... Welcome to RootsChat ;D
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I don't have a scanner at the moment, although I think maybe I should invest in one, but now you mention chemicals I've just remembered that most of the people who had Alk written in were indeed labourers in a chemical works, and it appears that the word alk had been written by someone other than the enumerator so I wonder if it's the name of a particular factory where they worked.
Time to google me thinks! ;)
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Hi
Alk could be Alkaline ???
Have had a look at BMDs index for death and he did die as an infant :
Thomas Henry Thompson aged 0 June qtr. 1891 Northwich vol. 8a page 250
The BMds are free to search at
http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx
Reckon you're on the right track ;)
Susan :)
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Bingo!! The word is indeed Alkali and there were alkaline chemical works set up alongside the salt works in Cheshire.
Interestingly, for anyone researching salt workers in their family, it appears that many men from Cheshire were taken up to Billingham, Teeside in the North-East.
http://www.theclarion.co.uk/the_north_east/history/chemicals/index.html
Hopefully it might help someone who's lost track of their family in Cheshire from the 1860's onwards.
Oh, many thanks for finding that for me Susan, and how sad he died so young :(
I think this is definitely the family I've been looking for now, how wonderful when parts of the jigsaw start falling into place! Many thanks for your help :)
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Well, I have been a busy little bee and think I've just about tracked down all William's immediate family ;D
Fortunately the whole family appears to have remained in Middlewich (and some still do to this day!) so it hasn't been an arduous task in tracing them.
William's parents are Henry THOMPSON b.1827-d.1898 and Elizabeth LOMAS b.1829-d.1907 and they married in 1851 in St Michael's & All Angels, Middlewich. They remained living in Lewin Street throughout their whole married lives.
Besides William, they had 5 other children:-
Samuel b.1856 - m. Alice HOUGH in 1888
Phoebe b.1858 - m. Joseph ALLMAN in 1875
Mary Hannah b.1860 - m. Thomas HOUGH in 1881
Thomas b.1866 - m. Mary SPROSTON in 1888
Henry b.1869 - was still living with his mother in 1901 (aged 32)
I have also found a death entry for William (aged 60) in 1927 in Middlewich, which fits with the year he was born, so I think the entry on 1901 which has him boarding with the SPROSTER's is correct, especially given that his brother Thomas married one!
I've still none the wiser why he and Betsy separated/divorced though - is there any way to check divorce details anywhere? - but maybe that's one of those things that will forever remain a mystery!
Oh, just one other thing, all the family marriages were conducted in St Michael & All Angels church, so presumably baptisms and burials would have been too, so does anyone know where I might find those records please?
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You have been busy ;D
Be a little cautious in accepting the 1901 William Thompson as "yours" he is shown as single, different occupation (bricklayer), this ties in with the William at home with parents Thomas and Martha in 1891 and his age would have been 60 in 1927 :-\ Your William could have died before Betsey got together with James Burgess.
Sorry, more pondering for you ???
Regards
Susan
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Yes, that part is still niggling me somewhat, particularly as I know that Joseph SPROSTON's wife Mary, with whom William boarded, is also the daughter of Thomas and Martha THOMPSON.
I sort of came to the conclusion that if it were in fact Thomas and Martha's William living with them, then surely the census would state his relationship to the Head (Joseph) as brother-in-law? The fact it states "boarder" gives me a small glimmer of a chance it could well be my William, but without certificates to prove anything it remains inconclusive for now.
I'm currently working on Henry's parents (I must get some sleep soon!) as I've managed to find 1841 census details for him, and it appears they moved to Manchester (Moss Side) at some point as I've found his mother Mary there on 1881 census - very intriguing!
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Have found a death for William Thompson, so sad only 31 :(
William Thompson 31 1894 Sep. qtr. Northwich Vol. 8a page 160
Wonder if the other William's father Thomas and your William's father Henry are brothers? Must be some relation being from the same place.
Susan :)
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I don't think that's my William as the age is wrong, he would only have been 27 in 1894, but thanks for looking for me and I certainly won't be ruling it out yet. The year of death certainly fits as it's a couple of years after Evelyn was born.
Yes, you are quite right in that Thomas and Henry are brothers which makes both the Williams cousins, and both born in the same year too just to make life harder! I just knew there had to be a connection somewhere - could feel it in my bones, along with some other rather weird happenings recently which I won't go into here ;)
Their parents were Sam(ue)l THOMPSON b.1804 and Mary (possibly BALL) b. 1806 but I'm struggling to find many details for them, other than the 1841 census which lists their children as Henry, Hannah, Samuel, William, Thomas and John and living in Leadsmithy Street, which fits elsewhere, so I'm pretty certain I have the right family.
Peter Bennet from this forum very kindly checked Cheshire marriages pre-1837 for me and found a possible match for a Samuel THOMPSON and Mary BALL in 1823 at Middlewich St Michael & All Angels, so that looks very hopeful.
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What's more, I think Henry and Thomas also married sisters - Elizabeth and Martha LOMAS! Then there's members of each family marrying into the SPROSTON'S - talk about keeping it in the family! ;D
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Have found a death for William Thompson, so sad only 31 :(
William Thompson 31 1894 Sep. qtr. Northwich Vol. 8a page 160
Right, I've done some double checking and found that my William was actually born in 1863 and not 1867 as I'd got in my notes (that's the other William) so yes this does indeed appear to be him :(
I've also found a death for Betsy in 1906, aged just 34 too. They both died so young :(
Many thanks for all your help with this Susan :)
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You're welcome :)
It is sad they died so young, I don't suppose the job that William had was a healthy one.
After Thompson the Sproston name is so unusual should be relatively easy for you ;)
Regards
Susan
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Being useless, I can't type links to other threads and such. But back in July 05, I posted a thread on the Cheshire board "Did you ancestor work as a Chemical labourer or alkali worker ?". Because I had found an interesting website "homestead.com/lucys_jigsaw/BM.html" (link no longer works)
which proved useful for me as my husbands ancestor had worked for the company and she did have some relevant records for me. Maybe she has some employment records of your ancestor. She does have Thompson listed amongst her surnames.
Siouxzie
Maybe some clever person can post a link to that thread?
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Hi Siouxzie
here's the thread link
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,71624.0.html
Susan :)
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Hi Siouxzie
Apologies for the delay in replying (I've been busy working on my BAKER family - gt grandfather's side) but thank you very much for the above link :)
I have emailed Judith to see if she might have any information on my William THOMPSON, especially as he died so young (was it work related?) after appearing to have only worked in the chemical industry for a couple of years.
Also thanks to Susan for providing the thread link.
Paula :)
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On the Sproston side I have an online database at http://www.sproston.org.uk/ which I hope will eventually cover all Sprostons everywhere (my maiden name).
All the best
Susan
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On the Sproston side I have an online database at http://www.sproston.org.uk/ which I hope will eventually cover all Sprostons everywhere (my maiden name).
All the best
Susan
Thanks for this, I'll take a proper look at it after xmas, been too busy recently to do much on the family research :)
But whilst I'm here ...
You're welcome :)
It is sad they died so young, I don't suppose the job that William had was a healthy one.
Hi
I eventually got the death certificates and it states that William was killed by a goods train on a level crossing, and Betsy died from shock following what I can only assume was some sort of accident. It mentions "twisting of the pedicle" but that could mean any number of things.
They both had post mortems and inquests so I now need to try and track down details of those if possible, presumably from local newspapers if they were reported there.
Thanks again to you all for your help with this
Kind regards
Paula
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I just googled "twisting of the pedicle"...I'm still not sure what it is, but it sounds nasty!
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Hi,
Are you still looking for the marriage of Betsy FRADLEY/THOMPSON to James BURGESS, if so this looks like a possibility,
James BURGESS Sep Q 1895 Northwich v.8a p.413
others on same page,
Elizabeth THOMPSON
Emily Elizabeth HEWITT
Peter CROFTS
In 1901 Peter CROFTS is with his wife Emily E as son-in-law to HEWITTS.
Maybe when the registrar heard Betsy he assumed she was an Elizabeth :-\ :)
Regards
Daisy