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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Surrey Lookup Requests => Surrey => England => Surrey Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: Calm71 on Saturday 23 September 06 19:51 BST (UK)
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Looking for John Fuller,
I have spent weeks looking for my Great, Great Grandfather in the 1881 census.
I would be so grateful if someone else would have a look.
I have found him in 1891 and 1901, but I'm really struggling with 1881.
The other census entires list him as being born about 1857-1861 in Croydon Surrey, his wife is Mary born around 1860, in Warlingham Surrey and I would expect to find their daughters Esther b. about 1877 and Annie b. about 1879 and possibly their son Charles who was born in about 1881!
I guess they're living in Croydon, but I'm not sure. I have tried various other surnames, but to no avail!
I would be super pleased if someone could point me in the right direction. ;D
Thanks
Stephen
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Hi Stephen,
I cant find him either, can you please post the reference for the 1891 and 1901 so I can take a look.
thanks Patrish.
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Hi Patrish,
Thanks so much for looking, here is what I found already.
Hope it helps you, it hasn't been much help to the novice that I am!!
Stephen
This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Census 1891 Croydon, Surrey, England RG12/586/88/43 (John Fuller)
Census 1901 Croydon, Surrey, England RG13/637/45/25 (John Fuller)
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I don't see them either, but nor do I find the birth of Esther Fuller although the FreeBMD indexes state that they are complete for the years around 1877.
Do you have the marriage certificate for John and Mary? Do you know from the birth certificate of any of the children what Mary's maiden name was? Could she have been married previously and possibly Esther, maybe even Annie might have been from her previous marriage yet they took the name of their new father by 1891?
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Hi, I have no marriage certificate or other info like maiden name...
I have my doubts, in a novices way, that she was married preiously, because she'd have been 21 in 1881, is it likely that she'd married twice?
I guess the 2 girls could be illegitamate, I only just thought that.
How do I guess that? I don't as yet have any idea what Mary's Maiden name was!!
Thank you so much for your continued help
Stephen
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Highly likely that she could have been married twice, our ancestors do all sorts of things to puzzle us but not necessarily certain. Also they could have been married anytime before 1891, if indeed they were at all, and the children still taking the surname from John.
You notice that the birthplace given for Edward in 1901 is Warlingham rather than Croydon? that is a possible clue - keep an open mind.
You need the birth certificate of one of the children who you are fairly sure belonged to them both in order to get the maiden name of Mary. Unfortunately the name Fuller is not uncommon in Surrey and it's a little difficult to pinpoint the births of the children exactly, even Ellen who should be born in mid 1890, she may not have been registered in Croydon.
There are two possible Fredericks whose births were registered in Croydon - Frederick Stephen Fuller born September qtr 1893 2a 202 and Frederick Charles Fuller born March qtr 1895 2a 290.
Before proceeding further my first course of action would be to contact anybody in the family who might be a child of one of John and Mary's children and ask if they knew the birthday and date of their parent and then order the birth certificate if one isn't available.
The alternative is to contact the GRO and either order one of the certificates but put the condition that the parents names are correct, then if it is wrong they will refund part of your money, keeping a portion for a search fee. The other way which will cost the same as an incorrect certificate plus one correct certificate is to ask them to do a three consecutive year search for the correct entry with the conditions that you specify - ie the parents names being John and Mary. Of course it will only be worth doing this for one of the younger children who you are sure was born after they got together.
I hope this helps a little.
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Mary,
Thank you so much, i am quite new to this andmy other half despairs of me!! I don't think laterally, nit terribly good at it in any instance!!!
I am busy fretling baout looking for children and then I'll try and order some certificates.
Thanks again for your lateral advice
Stephen
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Hi Stephen,
I still cant find them in 1881 checked the GRO index's 1876 to 1878 inclusive no sign of an Ester Fuller, sorry
Patrish.
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Hi Patrish
Thanks for your help
I'll keep looking ::)
Stephen
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The comment by Mary A to keep an open mind regarding Edward and Warlingham may turn out to be prophetic.
Birth Registered.
Edward Albert FULLER,Godstone,Sept Qt,1882,Vol 2A,Page 191
Warlingham is within Godstone Reg.Dist.
This may be further reinforced by a Marriage Registration.
Edward Albert Fuller,Croydon,Dec Qt,1903,Vol 2A,Page 500.
The only other name on the FreeBMD page is Eliza PITT.
There are several other possibilities for these siblings marriages at Croydon.
Hope this helps.
Dave.
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OK this is going to sound daft but bear with me and hopefully you will see where I'm coming from.
Birth of Esther Emma Farrice March qtr 1877 Godstone 2a 196
Birth of Annie Elizabeth Farrissee September qtr 1878 Godstone 2a 85
Birth of Charles William Farriss_ June qtr 1880 Godstone 2a 191
1881 census
The Alley, Warlingham, Surrey
Jeremiah Farasee Head M 25 Farm Labourer Kent
Eliza M Farasee Wife M 22 Surrey Warlingham
Esther E Farasee Daur 4 " "
Anne E Farasee daur 2 " "
Charles W Farasee Son 10 months " "
Joseph Belton Lodger Unm 34 Farm Labourer " Mersthane
RG11/ 806; Folio: 16; Page: 26
Death of Jeremiah Farrissee September qtr 1881 Godstone Surrey 2a 93 Age about 26
Marriage of Eliza Mary Farrisee to John Fuller June qtr 1882 Croydon 2a 334
Only problem now is that I can't find a marriage to Jeremiah to Eliza Mary, but then you might be able to get over that problem by ordering one of the certificates, either marriage of John or birth of one of the children.
Mary
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Wow Mary you really have come up trumps, I can see where you are coming from, no wonder I couldn't find a birth for Esther Fuller :o
Patrish
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Update -
Marriage of Eliza Mary Rhodes to Jeremiah Pharisee December qtr 1876 Croydon 2a 332
1871
The Alley, Warlingham, Surrey
William Roads Head M 66 Ag Lab On the Sea
Emma Wife M 48 Surrey Lumpsfield
Frederick Son 13 Shepherd's Boy Surrey Warlingham
Mary daur 11 Scholar " "
Matilda daur 7 " " "
RG10/838; Folio: 63; Page: 8
1861 Barracks, Warlingham
William Rodes Head M 56 Ag Labourer Wotton Surrey
Emma Wife M 39 Surrey Lumpsfield
Ann H daur 14 " Chelsham
William Son 17 Carter Ag Lab " "
Edward Son 11 Scholar " Warlingham
James Son 8 " " "
Frederic Reuben Son 4 " "
Eliza Mary daur 1 " "
RG9/446; Folio: 165; Page: 19
So at last in a census confirmation that Eliza and Mary are both one and the same!
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Phew now I'm going for a lie down!
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My gut feeling is that this would be Jeremiah in 1861, despite giving Kent as his birthplace later, but only because I can find no other to fit and the name and age is perfect.
Titsey, Surrey
List of Persons not in Houses in Tatsfield Parish
Log Hut
Patrick Pharisee Head Mar 45 Ag Lab Ireland
Nosia Wife M 40 Ireland
Daniel Son 8 Scholar "
Jeremiah Son 5 "
Catherine daur 2 "
/
John Barry Head Lodger Mar 43 Ag Lab Ireland
Margaret Wife Mar 35 Ireland
Michael Son 10 Dorset Poole
//
William More Head Mar 40 Ag Lab Ireland
Ellen Wife Mar 25 Ireland
William Son 2 1/4 Ireland
RG9/ 446; Folio: 152; Page: 17
although they aren't easy to find in 1871, I think maybe the parents knew how to read and write but maybe the children weren't so well educated.
This is a possible Daniel for 1871
Bugg Hill Farm House Chelsham, Surrey
Thomas and Harriet Singer and their family have lodgers including
Daniel Farace (transcribed as Faron) Lodger Unm 18 Ag Lab Tatsfield Surrey
RG10/ 836; Folio: 105; Page: 6
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There is a Louisa Elizabeth Fuller born June quarter 1880 in Croyden if this is any help. Alun
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John Fuller born Croyden December quarter 1859. Alun.
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This might be your John Fuller in the 1881 census. Living as a lodger with his wife Eliza at 54 Addington Road ,Croydon. John's ocupation is traveller . The head of the house is William Warren , painter and his wife Mary is a dressmaker. Alun
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Mary, you are a star... ;D I cannot believe the amount of work you have done!!! I am gobsmacked.
Thank you sooooo much, my other half has been keeping me updated at work, as roots chat is blocked at work.
It is fantastic, talk about re-enthusing me to find the Fullers!
Fantastic, marvellous, hooray!!
Thanks again
Stephen.
Thanks to all who have looked, I'm off in search of my great grandfather, Arthur Fuller, see what i can find. :D
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I just knew there had to be a reason for not finding them.
I learned very early on never to rule out a previous marriage. When searching for my own grandparents and had difficulty finding the names on the index to match, in my naievety I demanded that the Register Office give me the certificate for the name I believed to be my grandfather's marriage expecting a mistake to have been made with the indexing of grandmothers. It must have been a flash of inspiration to choose his particular entry which was confirmed when I got the cert and found the bride's father was the person I knew he should be, but the bride had a different name due to the fact that she was a widow..... and my grandfather was also a widower! another shock! and a couple of extra mysteries to solve.
I don't believe to this day that their children knew about these earlier marriages, they had probably been forgotten about over the years but my father dabbling in family history himself certainly didn't know or he would have mentioned it.
Good luck with Arthur
Mary
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Great work Mary! This hunt was rather thrilling to read about as it unfolded on the page. You have provided many leads to follow up with that will certainly bring forth more ideas and information.
The old grey mare
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Mary - and others,
I have just got home and opened my mail and the certifacte I ordered for arthur Fuller's Birth confirms what you researched!!! His mother was mary fuller, formerley Farrisee.
You truly are a marvel and deserve an award!!!
Thank you soooo much
Stephen ;D ;D ;D
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Oh I do love it when a plan comes together!!
Well done Stephen, I was more or less 99.99% certain that I was right, but it's just great to get that confirmation, woohooooooooo.
Mary