RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham => England => Durham Lookup Requests => Topic started by: EC23 on Thursday 21 September 06 13:24 BST (UK)
-
Hi there
Looking for any Peases/ Todds in Bishop Auckland,particularly Bondgate
My line moved from Bishop Aucklad to Manchester in 1888, but appear to move back for the birth of their first son- implying some family had remained and were alive in 1891!
Particular names are
Albert Pease, 22
Margaret Pease (nee Todd), 24
Matthew Pease 1
Maria Pease 43
Robert Todd 50
Elizabeth Todd 52
Thanks in advance
-
1891 Gorton St Mark Lancashire RG12/3171 folio 104 page 5
19 Walter Street
Albert Pease age 23 Waggon Inspector Norwich Norfolk
Margaret A wife age 22 born Bp Aukland Durham
Robert Pease age 2 born Manchester
Mathew Pease son age 9 months born Bp Aukland Durham
Pam
-
That's brilliant Pam, can you possibly see if there's any Peases/Todds in B.A in '91?
I was really hoping to find Margaret's parents who have evaded any census search to date!!
Thanks again
EC23
-
Hi EC23,
There are quite a few Todds in Bishop Auckland in 1891, but no Peases. Let me know if you would like full transcripts for any of these: (the ones marked * are the only ones actually born in BA)
Bedford Lodge, Bishop Auckland and Pollards Lands
John Thomas Todd, 33
Anne, 30
Norman Douglas, 6
Reginald, 4
Muriel Daisy, 2
Fred Duncan, 1*
+ 2 servants
63 Newgate, Bishop Auckland
Celina Todd, age 15, servant, b. Sedgefield(?) Durham
9 Wood St.
Christopher Todd, 37
Elizabeth, 24
Lewzes Terrace(?)
David Todd, 39
Margaret, 40
4 Hawthorn Cottage
Edward Todd, 62
Mary 63
105 Newgate
John Todd, 45
Mary, 34
Grace Annie, 15
John Wm, 16
Mary Isabel, 5*
27 Cradock St.
James Todd, 57
Susan, 56
Robert, 25
Margaret, 19 (married to Robert)
10 High Tenters St.
John Todd, 73
Hope this helps!
MJP
-
MJP
Very kind. My Todds aren't here, but much appreciate the list.
Thanks again
EC23
-
There are a few couples named Robert and Elizabeth Todd of about the right age in various places in Durham in 1891. Do you know where they were born? Have you found Margaret with them in 1881? I can't seem to spot her...
MJP
-
Hi MJP
This is very kind, they are both a big gap in my research. I actually have Robert in 1841 as a baby (he's born in '41) and been able to find him after his marriage.
Robert is born in 1841 in BA
Elizabeth (nee Green) is born in 1843, don't know where
Robert and Elizabeh married in 1862, had their child Margaret in 1867 (in North Brondgate BA) and I've been unable to find them anywhere after!
Thanks again
EC23
-
Hi EC23,
Wow, this is a tricky one. There seem to be so many Margaret Todds born around the same time. How do you know her parents' names? I expect you got her father's name from her marriage certificate to Albert Pease, but there are so many Robert Todds too - how do you know her mother is Elizabeth Green?
Is Margaret consistent about her birth place? I couldn't find the family in 1901 to see what she gave as her birthplace...
Sorry for all the questions! Hope we can track them down...
MJP
-
hi MJP
Thanks again
I have Margaret (middle name Ann - sorry shoudl have mentioned that) and Albert's marriage cert, with Robert Todd as father
and BA as birthpalce from the 1901 census. (she's a widow in 1901 living in Eccles New Road, Salford)
I found Margaret Ann's birth certificate - I could only find one candidate - father Robert Todd, mother Elizabeth nee Green.
Thanks again
EC23
As you say, no sign in 1881, I've looked previously for 1871 and nothing there either
-
Hi EC23,
I think I have solved part of the puzzle. It was George Brown, age 14, Margaret's brother in 1901 that was the clue.
He appears in the 1891 at age 4 with his parents George and Elizabeth Brown. There is a possible marriage for George Brown and Elizabeth Todd in 1882. So - Elizabeth remarried and had one more child. BTW, according to the 1891, Elizabeth Green/Todd/Brown was born circa 1849 in Barnard Castle, Durham. (Meaning she had George at age 45!)
Now I'm trying to find her in 1881 and see what happend to Robert Todd...
I'll type out full transcriptions once I've found everybody.
MJP
-
OK, well I still don't know what happened to Robert, but here's a story for you...
1871
RG10/4924/13/20
Southgate St., Bishop Auckland
Elizabeth Laws, Head, Widow, 29, Shopkeeper, b. Barnard Castle Durham
Mary Laws, Daur, 6, b. Bishop Auckland
Margaret Laws, Daur, 4, b. Bishop Auckland
Wm. Clarkson, Boarder, 33, Labourer, b. London
Sarah Clarkson, Boarder's Wife, 37, b. Selby Yorks
1881
RG11/4914/76/37
7 Carrs Place, Bishop Auckland
Elizabeth Laws, Head, Widow, 39, no occupation given, b. Barnard Castle
Margaret Laws, Daur, 14, Scholar, b. Bishop Auckland
John McGuire, Lodger, 45, Puddler, b. Ireland
William McA??, Lodger, 41, Tobacco Spinner, b. Scotland
Also 1881
Mary Todd Laws, age 17, b. Bishop Auckland, servant in Wolsingham
1891
7 Carrs Place, Bishop Auckland (same address as 1881)
George Brown, Head, 62, Coke Drawer, b. Newsham Yorks
Elizabeth Brown, Wife, 49, b. Barnard Castle
George A. Brown Son, 4, b. Bishop Auckland
Can't find Elizabeth or George on 1901, but there are several deaths in the Auckland District in the 1890s that could be them.
(BTW, George Brown is in the 1881 with his wife and daughters living in Pollards Land)
So...I have no idea why Elizabeth started calling herself Laws. I can't find any evidence of another marriage, and she seems to have married George Brown as a Todd. But there are enough other details that match up to convince me that this is her.
What do you think?
MJP
-
Well done MJP ;)
1881 Bishop Aukland Durham RG11/4913 folio 98 Page 44
address 32 High Tenters Street The Miners Arms
Robert Pease age 33 born Norwich Norfolk Beer House Keeper
Maria wife age 31 born Norwich Norfolk
Albert Pease age 12 born Norwich Norfolk
Pam
-
There is a marriage for
Robert Pease and Maria Dowson Norwich Norfolk dec quarter 1866 4b 331
1871 Norwich St Julian Norfolk RG10/1814 folio 16 page 26
Sherbourne? Place East Side
Robert Pease transcribed Perse born Carbrooke ?Cusbrooke? Norfolk age 25 occupation Conf Biscuit shaker
Maria wife age 23 Norwich Norfolk Silk Filler
Albert R age 2 born Norwich
Pam
-
Death Robert Pease born abt 1846 died 1884 Aukland Durham March quarter 10a 93 age 38
Pam
-
1891 St Helens Aukland Durham RG12/4069 folio 33 page 23
Reg distict Aukland sub reg district Bishops Aukland
address Square
Matthew Riley age 34 Coal Miner born Cassop Durham
Maria wife age 39 born St Swithens Norfolk
Thomas Musgrave lodge age 69 Coal miner Darlington Durham
marriage
Matthew Riley
Maria Pease 1886 Aukland Durham Dec quarter 10a 218
1901 Freehold Field and Rainton Gate Durham RG13/4697 folio 95 page 26
Rainton Gate
Matthew Riley age 46 Coal miner hewer born Durham City Durham
Maria age 50 born St Sudens? Norwich
Pam
-
Hello
Interesting that Robert Pease was a confectioner Biscuit shaker in 1871. In 1901 Margaret is a confectioner also ,own account at home. With four servants who are Sweet assistants she was doing well for herself.
1851 H0107/1816 folio 166 page 10 Norwich St Swithens Norfolk
Masons Yard Lower Westwick
William Dowson age 33 Wool Comber all born Norwich
Harriet wife age 31
Harriet S dau age 10
Maria Dowson age 3 born Norwich Norfolk
1861 RG9/1218 folio 111 page 8 Norwich St Swithens Norfolk
Westwick Street Barkers Yard
William Dowson age 42 gen lab all born Norfolk
Harriet wife age 41 Boot Closer
Maria Dowson age 14 Silk Winder
Emily Cage boarder age 17 silk winder
pam
-
1871 RG10/1818 folio 102 page 5 Norwich St Swithen Norfolk
6 Lower westwick Barkers Yard
William Dowson age 51 Wool Comber all born Norwich
Harriet wife age 51 transcribed Hannah Boot fitter
James Swetman age 48 boot maker boarder
??marriage Harriot Sweatman William Dowson 1842 dec quarter Blofield Norfolk 13 73
1841
H0107/791/5 folio 5 page 5 Norwich St Swithens Norfolk
Barkers Yard
William Swetman age 56 Cordwainer all born in county
Ann Swetman age 52
Hariet Swetman age 22 Silk weaver
James Swetman age 18 Cordwainer
Susan Swetman age 16 silk filler
Henry Swetman age 14
Stephen Swetman age 13
Hariet Swetman age 7 months
looks as if Hariet had baby Hariet before she married William Dowson
Pam
-
Wow, been away for a weekend and come back to this
MJP and Pam, many thanks for all your efforts. I'm going to have to print out the whole thread and try and digest it. I have the Peases/ Dowsons/Swatmans in Norfolk already, this is spot on.
I had Robert's death at 38. I need to take a deep breath and find a quiet corner. Will come back again later
Thanks again, this is great
All the best
EC23
-
MJP and Pam
I think the Elizabath Laws must be 'mine'. I looked for the Todd/ Laws marriage but nothing. I didn't know Elizabeth was born in Barnard Castle till now
I've ordered a birth certificate for Elizabeth Green, b 1841 Durham western and Elizabeth's marriage certificate to George Brown
I'll mail back to confirm it's one and the same person!
I'd never have found Elizabeth without your help.
MJP, what was the clue that led you to the right place?
EC23 :D
-
Thanks EC23 and nice work Pam on the Peases!
It was really Mary Todd Laws that was the key clue for me. I found the Laws in 1871 by searching on first names and birth places only. They were the only ones that fit who lived in Bishop Auckland. Then I tried to find the same people in 1881 and came up with Mary.
Now I'm really curious about the whole Laws connection. Keep us posted about the results of the certificates!
MJP
-
Yes, I didn't thank Pam enough in my last mail - she managed to uncover three years of research in 3 days!
It did amaze me the the trade of a confectioner was seemingly lost (Robert becomes a publican in Bishop Auckland then dies aged 38).
His son Albert moves to Manchester working in various labouring jobs, he died in 1900 from banging his head from falling from his bicycle aged 30. In 1901 his widow is running a fairly large confectionary business from home.
I ordered the certs from Durham directly, so hopefully they'll be quicker than the GRO. I'll be sure to post my results on this thread
Fantastic
EC23
;)
-
Possible candidate for Elizabeth Green before marriage to Robert Todd...
1861
RG9/3705/67/18
3 Grainger St., Bishop Auckland
Elizabeth Danson, Head, Widow, 72, b. Barnard Castle
Joseph Danson, Son, unmarried, 37, Horse Breaker, b. Bishop Auckland
Elizabeth Green, Niece, 19, General Servant, b. Barnard Castle
1851
HO107/2385/159/9
High Bondgate, Pollard's Lands
William Danson, Head, 54, Chaise Driver, b. Bishop Auckland
Elizabeth Danson, Wife, 58, b. Barnard Castle
Joseph Danson, Son, 24, Waggoner, b. Bishop Auckland
Mary Danson, Daur, 17, b. Bishop Auckland
Elizabeth Green, Niece, 7, Scholar, b. Barnard Castle
Too bad her aunt and uncle weren't named Laws! That would have explained a few things...
Green families in Barnard Castle in 1841...
HO107/305/3/30/21
Queen St., Barnard Castle
H?? Green (male), 55, Flax Dresser
Elizabeth, 45
Elizabeth, 25, Bonnet Maker,
Sarah, 15, Bonnet Maker
Martha, 15, Dress Maker
Thomas, 8
All born in county except H??
HO107/305/4/43/30
Badge(?) Gate, Barnard Castle
Margaret Green, 22, born in County living with the Wooden family
HO107/305/3/47/12
Newgate Street, Barnard Castle
William Green, 43, J. Flax Dresser
Mary, 36
John, 14
Elizabeth, 13
James, 10
William, 8
Anthony, 5
Thomas, 2
All born in county except William (senior) and James.
Hope Elizabeth's marriage cert gives her father's name!
MJP
-
Only just received my certs from the Bishop Auckland Registration Office - thought this would be the quick way, but sounds like they're swamped
Total success! Many thanks for your help this line had been a dead-end for three years, had really given up getting further.
Marriage Cert
The Elizabeth Todd who married George Brown is a widow, father Thomas Green, so Eliz. is born in Barnard Castle
Birth Cert
Elizabeth Green born 25 Aug 1841, Thorngate, Barnard Castle father Thomas Green, soldier, mother Margaret nee Howden.
This morning had a quick look at FreeBMD and success - Sep 184o Teesdale 23 249 Thomas Green and margaret Howden! Will be ordering today - but not from Bishop Auckland Registration Office!
Will also lodge another request on the board for an 1841 look-up to see if Thomas and Margaret can be found
all the best
EC23
-
Now I'm more confident that the Eliza. in 1851/61 is the right one - I looked for a marriage between Willian Danson and Elizabeth Howden on IGI - assuming that Eliz. is the sister of Margaret- I found that at Auckland St Andrew in 1823 - I then looked for the baptism of Elizabeth and Margaret Howden- found their aprents to be Farrer/Farrow Howden and Mary Walton.
Looks like the cork's out of the bottle, it's going to be a busy day!
Thanks again
-
Great news EC23! Thanks for the update.... :D
MJP
-
I see that this thread is very out of date. I have been struggling with the same questions, and have come to the same conclusions.
The Laws mystery - Robert Todd was illegitimate, and is to be found with his mother Mary and her parents William and Eleanor in the 1841. Mary then married Thomas Laws, and Robert is from then on recorded as a Laws. I too, have had no luck finding him after his marriage to Elizabeth Green. I assumed that he had died and that Elizabeth had remarried. I will look at the Brown connection. I would love to find Margaret Ann in 1871/81, and would love to hear whether you found her. Also, on her marriage certificate the witnesses David and Mary Jane Caulcutt are relatives - Mary Jane was a Green and Elizabeth Green's younger sister, who lived in Chorlton at the address given by Margaret Ann and Albert Pease. After Albert fell off his bike and died, Margaret Ann married a Charles Arthur Moakler, and they continued to be confectionary suppliers. Albert apparently worked for Meesons, the big confectionary chain. The Moaklers gave Meeson as a middle name to one of their daughters.
Thanks and here's hoping.
-
Hi catnav and welcome to rootschat
EC23 was online last month so with luck will see this post soon. If not, when you have another post to your credit you can send a personal message by clicking on the green scroll under the name. Click reply to this and that should activate the pm system for you.
Regards
Andrea
-
By the way, I have followed the Caulcutt (witnesses on the Pease/Todd marriage) connection, and David's father was a soldier like Thomas Green, which would explain them being "intermittent" in the censuses. Thomas Green seems to have been born in Kingswinford, and is in Tettenhall in 1861 with his wife and younger children (including Mary Jane).
-
Hi catnav
Just read this thread, great to have contact - I'll PM you
EC23