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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: charmedc on Monday 18 September 06 16:05 BST (UK)

Title: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: charmedc on Monday 18 September 06 16:05 BST (UK)
I am so sorry to ask for someone to again try and decipher writings... am I the only one that gets really bad certificate copies?  :'( I have tried and tried with this one too... what I do know is the marriage is between a Patrick Gethins and a Mary McGlone ( think) - i have noticed the spelling of the Gethins could be Gettins/Gittens or the Gethins. I cannot make out the 2 mum's names - anyone any idea there?
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: Little Nell on Monday 18 September 06 21:25 BST (UK)
It's Mary McGlone & Patrick Gettins - ? 5 Jun 1863 in Dundee?  Mary's parents are James & Ann McGlone (both dead) but this is too small to read the maiden surname.  Patrick's parents are Michael & Mary Gettins - Mary is already dead.

Any help?

Nell
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 18 September 06 21:47 BST (UK)
I think the MS are Goldy and McGherry.

Gadget  :-\

Pretty bad entry though  :(
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 18 September 06 21:56 BST (UK)
Here's an enlargement that I've tweaked a bit:

Gadget

PS the G's are different though - poss Cs or Qs  ???
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: PrueM on Monday 18 September 06 22:01 BST (UK)
Are those capital Cs in the maiden names, rather than Gs?  just looking at Mr Gettins' name and the G is quite distinctive...
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 18 September 06 22:03 BST (UK)
Just modified my posting Prue - Cs or Qs are my best bet now  ???
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: PrueM on Monday 18 September 06 22:06 BST (UK)
Caldy and McCherry???
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: Gadget on Monday 18 September 06 22:12 BST (UK)
The rr could be n. I've tried negative image to see if we can get anything more out
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: scotmum on Tuesday 19 September 06 09:13 BST (UK)
Have you tried putting in an Illegible Image contact form to Scotlandspeople? I have had quite a few as poor to read as yours and found that when SP photocopy original and post it out it is usually very much improved and far easier to read.
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: charmedc on Tuesday 19 September 06 09:37 BST (UK)
thanks Gadget, never ever thought of trying to read them with reversing them and making them a negative............ will try that with some others i have.
scotmum - i will do that today as i have tried everyone suggestions to the names and coming up blank......... thanks all
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 19 September 06 10:20 BST (UK)
These are some of the children showing for Patrick and Mary McGlone, from IGI:

1. CATHERINE GATTINS  Birth: 20 JUN 1864 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
2. MARY ANN GETHINS Birth: 08 APR 1867 Dundee, Angus, Scotland

The 1881 Census shows them both as born in Ireland. This could well make it difficult for you to find out more about the parents:

GETTINS Patrick, Gen lab. 46, b. Ireland
GETTINS Mary, Spinner, 39, b. Ireland
GETTINS Catherine, Spinner, 17, b. Dundee
GETTINS Mary Ann, Spinner, 14, b. Dundee
GETTINS Ellen, Half time Spinner, 12, b. Dundee
GETTINS James, 9, b. Dundee
GETTINS Margaret, 5, B. Dundee
GETTINS Sarah, 3, b. Dundee

Address 111 Cowgate, Dundee

Regards.

Monica

Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 19 September 06 10:29 BST (UK)
Would it help to locate their death certificates. These might give the parents' names more clearly.

Gadget
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 19 September 06 10:36 BST (UK)
I've just realised that I have looked at the death of Mary before.

She died 25 October 1905, in Dundee, Wife of Patrick Gethins. Parents were James McGlone and Catherine McGuire.

Ref - 282/4 750

Patrick was still alive then.

Gadget

PS - nothing on Patrick then or now  :(
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: charmedc on Tuesday 19 September 06 10:38 BST (UK)
oh thank you so much for this information, both to Monica and Gadget...... upon looking up death certificates do i put in maiden names or married names to locate them?
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 19 September 06 10:42 BST (UK)
Here we are :

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,169249.0.html

Same query  ??? ??? ???


Gadget

Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: charmedc on Tuesday 19 September 06 10:43 BST (UK)
sorry Gadget - you have it as Catherine McGuire - on the marriage certificate it seems like it reads as Ann???? have i got another problem that perhaps Catherine was a step mum????????
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: charmedc on Tuesday 19 September 06 10:46 BST (UK)
oh gadget i am so sorry - i must be going around the bend i think....... i did try all those names at the time and came up blank........
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 19 September 06 10:49 BST (UK)
Both were discovered in July this year -

and this is Patrick's death that I found as well:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,169249.msg799701.html#msg799701


Gadget
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 19 September 06 10:51 BST (UK)
Jacki

I think at the time, I said that they were both born in Ireland and that that was were you would have to search for their births and their parents.

Read carefully through the other thread. It will give you all the information that we found then.

Gadget
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: charmedc on Tuesday 19 September 06 10:56 BST (UK)
yes i remember and tried the different spellings on familysearch and coming up blank in ireland for even a marriage for them...... sorry to trouble you just sitting here once again trying to work out this branch of the family......... tear the hair out material....  ::)
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 19 September 06 11:05 BST (UK)
PM me your e-mail, I'll see what I've got in my vault :)

They were working in the jute mills - ? didn't Belfast 'do' jute  ???

Gadget
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 19 September 06 11:25 BST (UK)
Charmedc

I'm confused too! You had all this info already from the previous thread as posted by Gadget back in July. What's still outstanding?

Monica
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: teap78 on Tuesday 19 September 06 11:42 BST (UK)
PM me your e-mail, I'll see what I've got in my vault :)

They were working in the jute mills - ? didn't Belfast 'do' jute  ???

Gadget

Just checked on google and found this write up on Actor Brian Cox

Belfast-bound A-lister Brian Cox said
My family are all originally from the Enniskillen area, and they moved en masse to Scotland just after The Famine.

"There was a whole group of people from that particular area of Ireland that moved to Dundee to work in the jute mills, and they all lived in Irish ghettos.

"Dundee is an east coast town with a river and it has a very similar feeling to Belfast."


Colette

Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: charmedc on Tuesday 19 September 06 11:53 BST (UK)
oh wow thank you so much for that....... i will try and look up that area now...... regards
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 19 September 06 12:17 BST (UK)
Charmedc

I'm confused too! You had all this info already from the previous thread as posted by Gadget back in July. What's still outstanding?

Monica

I think the only thing that I didn't look at was the 1901 Census, Monica - but not to worry. Colette is on the trail  :D

Hope we can get something sorted.

Gadget
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: teap78 on Tuesday 19 September 06 12:42 BST (UK)
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details

RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.

For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information.  Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical.  Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted.  We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.


Colette
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 19 September 06 12:45 BST (UK)
Well done Colette  :)

IGI turns up some good stuff now and again. I thought the Irish entries were a bit like my part of Wales - variable  :(  I've hardly found anything on it for my Irish or Welsh lines.

Gadget
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: charmedc on Tuesday 19 September 06 12:50 BST (UK)
thanks heaps i was just looking it up at the same time....... ;D but cant find out anything on the Catherine Callaly and Michael Gethins...  :'( - i have been looking for the Enniskillen area in Ireland now - wherever that is...... wow this is hard doing it from overseas when you have no idea of places...... the grey hair is getting more grey by the second............  ;)
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: teap78 on Tuesday 19 September 06 12:55 BST (UK)
Thats me told off   :-[ ::) didnt even know i was doing wrong well ya live and learn.

Well anyway Delinda McGlone born 1841 (Mary's sister) married a Patrick Connolly in 1856 in Ireland dont know where (YET) but i see they to moved to Scotland and had some children there.

Colette
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 19 September 06 13:03 BST (UK)
And Mary was bpt circa 1839 and the parents born circa 1806, 1810 and married circa 1831.

That's my memory for ya - elephants and all that  :D

Gadget
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: charmedc on Tuesday 19 September 06 13:04 BST (UK)
so sorry you got into trouble BUT i really do appreciate your help......... ;)
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 19 September 06 13:13 BST (UK)
Found a brother for Patrick!:

MARY HIGGINS     Marriages: Spouse: MICHAL GETHINS    
Marriage:  28 JUN 1875  Dundee, Angus, Scotland

Michael died in Dundee in 1916, parents Michael Gethins, farm lab., deceased and Catharine Callilee (spl?), deceased.

There may also be another couple of brothers in Dundee around the time of the 1881 Census, a Thomas age 39 and a John age 36, all with Irish birth place.

Monica
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 19 September 06 13:18 BST (UK)
i have been looking for the Enniskillen area in Ireland now - wherever that is......

Enniskillen is in County Fermanagh but I'd try a wider area, Jacki.



What about looking for deaths of parents in Scotland  :)

Gadget
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 19 September 06 13:24 BST (UK)
These are the children showing on IGI for Delinda McGlone and Patrick/Peter Connolly:

1. Helen connolly  Birth: 05 MAR 1867 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
2. James connollyBirth: 27 JUN 1860 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
3. James connolly Birth: 01 NOV 1864 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
4. John connolly Birth: 11 SEP 1870 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
5. Thomas connolly Birth: 28 AUG 1862 Dundee, Angus, Scotland

They all show as submitted entries rather than actual extracts, which is strange for this period. Maybe some of the birth certs. might include a marriage place in Ireland which might provide further clues.

Monica
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: charmedc on Tuesday 19 September 06 13:28 BST (UK)
thanks for that information Monica, i will look up that spelling too of Catharine.... I have tried Gadget death certificates but i must be doing something wrong because i cant find them. :-[
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 19 September 06 13:30 BST (UK)
Can't find any obvious deaths ofPatrick and Mary's  parents so either they died in Ireland or before 1855. What is the earliest Scottish census that we have these people?

Got to go off for a while - has anyone checked the earlier ones?

Gadget

PS - re Patrick and Mary's deaths - I would think you'd have the images by now  ;)
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 19 September 06 13:48 BST (UK)
Found Dad Michael Gethins' death cert, he died in Dundee age 65 in 1865, wife Catherine Calli(spl)y still shows as alive (ie he's not showing as widower which is strange given she shows as deceased in son Patrick's marriage in 1863).

Parents Owen Gethins, farmer, and Catherine Lang (spl?) both deceased.

Maybe the 1851/61 Census will have all the family together?
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: charmedc on Tuesday 19 September 06 13:54 BST (UK)
thank you heaps Monica for finding that.......... what am i doing wrong then when i try to find death certificates? hmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 19 September 06 14:07 BST (UK)
Michael Snr.'s age at death is 'Unrecorded' for search purposes, shows with a 'U' (you can tick a box on the front search page to show unrecorded ages at death - can't remember why this was so, maybe someone else can comment).

I've just found the family in 1861 in Dundee. Nothing in 1851 so looks like they came over between those years. All show as born Ireland.

Michael, 60, Widower, Dock Labourer
Patrick, 24, Dock Labourer
Margaret, 22, Mill Worker
Thomas, 20, Dock Labourer
John, 17, Jute Weaver
Mary Ann, 16, Jute Weaver
Michael, 14, Millworker

No clues therefore as to where they came from.

Monica
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 19 September 06 14:23 BST (UK)
And Michael was a widower in 1861, so Catherine died either in Ireland or soon after they came over.

Strangely Mary's death cert in 1905 showed Patrick  as not deceased  although he was ???

Gadget
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: charmedc on Tuesday 19 September 06 16:21 BST (UK)
gee you are all so fantastic!!!! i am so grateful to you for finding this information. Now hopefully after your suggestion of putting it in the general Ireland page I may get some response to help to find where in Ireland they came from.
again - i cant thank you enough.
warmest regards
jacki
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: teap78 on Tuesday 19 September 06 18:26 BST (UK)
 ;) Will keep a look out for your ones Charmedc





Colette
Title: Re: sorry - can anyone read this one too please
Post by: charmedc on Wednesday 20 September 06 11:50 BST (UK)
thanks Collette,
regards
Jacki