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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: Roobarb on Sunday 17 September 06 00:38 BST (UK)
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I am trying to trace WILLIAM BELL, son of JULIA BELL in the Bastardy records. I sent for the 1857 list from the Devon FHS believing that it was the year he was born but nothing there. Does anyone have the 1856 or 1858 records, or any record of it around that time? ::)
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Hi :)
What exactly are you trying to find out about William?
I have found him in 1861 where it states that he is 4, born 1857 in exeter. I also have him in 1871 living with his mum Julia and his step father , William Street plus his step brothers and sisters.
Do you have this info ? If not would you like me to post it for you?
;D
Deb
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Hi Deb
Thanks, I do have that information. The reason I am looking for the Bastardy records is because I can't track down his birth date to send for the certificate. He was born in Exeter but there are so many parishes that I'm not sure which one he was born in and is it was a common name, there are a few to choose from around 1857. His marriage cert in August 1884 indicates that he was 27 at the time. I'm not sure whether Devon Council will do a check on possible certificates. ???
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Hi :)
When you say you have looked in the Quarter Sessions bastardy records, do you mean the little index booklets published by the Small Projects Group of DFHS? If so, these won't help you because they cover the county of Devon, not the city of Exeter. I know, because I wrote the foreword for the bastardy indexes!
If you have an approximate year of birth, you can write to the Register Office and ask for a copy of the birth certificate. The address is Castle Street, Exeter.
Good luck.
Sue
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The other thing you need to be aware of is that bastardy cases would only be taken to the quarter sessions if paternity was being contested or there were problems for some other reasons in getting a father who could afford it to pay.
You are more likely to be successful looking at the poor law union records or those of the overseers of the poor. If there was an agreement made directly or using the Justices of the Peace there is unlike ly to be any record. The other place is of course the vestry minutes but as you say that means knowing which parish to look in.
David
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Hello again,
This case is a bit more complicated just because it is Exeter. The quarter sessions records which are indexed are annual returns made by the petty sessions of affiliation orders so they are different from the disputed paternity cases which you mention. At this date, it was the responsibility of the mother to apply for maintenance for her baby, not the overseers of the poor. It is possible that William, as an illegitimate child, may have been born in the workhouse, but Exeter workhouse records were destroyed in the bombing in 1942. Exeter didn't have a poor law union, but a Corporation of the Poor, which dealt with all the poor law cases in the city parishes.
You could guess that William was born in the workhouse, and in that case he may have been baptised in Heavitree parish church, but it would be quicker to ask the Superintendant Registrar at Exeter to search for a birth record for you.
Sorry to ramble on :)
Sue
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Forgive me if I am slightly off-topic here, but SusanMary suggests the possibility that William, "as an illegitimate child, may have been born in the workhouse".
I've come across a situation where an illegitimate child may indeed have been born in an institution - but the certificate lists the mother as living at a house elsewhere. Would it be normal in those circumstances for the mother to go into the institution (less than a mile away) simply to have the child, rather than having it at home like most of that period?
Gareth
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Hi,
I was probably wandering off-topic too! I mentioned the workhouse because often unmarried mothers had nowhere else to go to have their babies if they were poor. Sometimes the registrar made it less obvious that the child was born in the workhouse by writing the address as if it were a private house, eg 10 East Street.
Is it possible that your mother who was living in a house, not the workhouse, was in a home for unmarried mothers? You did not say what the year date was, so I don't know if this is likely.
Sue
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Thanks for the reply, Sue, but I believe it was an ordinary house, in which the baby was duly brought up. The father and the mother registered the child together, so there didn't seem to be any great attempt to hide the relationship. This happened in the 1930s.
I think it may have been the case that the institution in question contained a hospital that took in patients from the surrounding community as well as treating the residents. That's the line I'm trying to investigate, anyway.
Gareth
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I've also heard that often the mother would approach the court and a Bastardy Bond produced because if later she approached the "Parish" for assistance then they would want to know why the father wasn't giving any support.
Also the child was often baptised so that it became a member of the community. Again, if later they were not members of that parish they could have been sent back to the parish they belonged to, thus Removal Orders.
This is probably a very simplified way of explaining things, but is how I understand it, maybe somebody knows the ins and outs a bit better, but that's the way it appeared to me when I came across this.
So baptisms are well worth searching for, but also the Access to Archives site http://www.a2a.org.uk/ where I found the Filiation Order, as it was called, by searching with the mother's name, not the childs.
Mary
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Thanks for all the information everyone. Yes Sue, I do mean the little green booklet, your information about that is very interesting. William's mother was Julia Bell and she is listed in the censuses as living with her mother in Topsham after William was born so it doesn't look as if she was left to her own devices. Julia herself was born in Topsham. She later married but obviously not to William's father as he is listed in later censuses as stepson. William became a Methodist lay preacher when he grew up, not sure if that would provide any clues. I think I will take your advice Sue and write to the register office in Exeter. :)
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Sorry, I was jumping to conclusions on this one. :( When you said that William was born in Exeter, I thought you were talking about the city of Exeter. If Julia's place of settlement was Topsham, which was in St Thomas poor law union, her son would have been born in the St Thomas workhouse, not the Exeter one. In that case, he could have been baptised in St Thomas parish church. The Exeter Registrar would have a record of his birth though. Birth records for what was St Thomas registration district are now split between Newton Abbot, Honiton and Exeter Register Offices, which makes things extra complicated if you don't know the area very well.
Sue
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William's birthplace was listed on the censuses as Exeter but his mother's was listed as Topsham so I thought that he must have been born in the city of Exeter. As you can see, I don't know the area at all, it's a long way from the frozen North where they eventually came to work! I have looked at information on the area and it looks as though Topsham is part of the greater Exeter area. A very lovely part of the world too by the look of the photos. :)
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Here you go .....
William James, son of Julia Bell of the workhouse, was baptised at St Thomas parish church on 27th July 1857. :D
Sue
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Oh Sue, thank you so much, thats wonderful! I didn't know he had a middle name either so that's some extra information. Many thanks. ;D