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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: JanieJ on Thursday 14 September 06 18:44 BST (UK)
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Seeking to find ANY information on Richard Frederick MITCHELL b1876 in Bermondsey (father Richard cellerman)
Married Florence Ellen Bowler b1897 Bermondsey in 1897.
Living in Cripplegate in 1901 census with son Frederick Mitchell. Unable to find on earlier census.
Thank you
JJ
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freebmd show what may be him - Dec 1875 quarter birth, St. Olave Southwark, Richard Frederick Mitchell. (St. Olave Southwark included Bermondsey from 1870 to 1901, after which the district of St. Olave Bermondsey was created).
I think he may be listed by his middle name in 1881:
6 Melior Street, St. Olave Southwark,
RG11/555/28 page 10
Richard Mitchell, 36, Cellarman, b. Buckingham
Ellen, 36, b. Gloucestershire
Ellen, 11, b. London, Surrey, Scholar
Mary, 9, b. ", "
Frederick, 5, b. ","
John Russell, boarder, 22, b. London, Surrey, Carman
Horsleydown in 1891 there is on the index, on the same page:
Ellen Mitchell, b. abt 1845, Gloucestershire
Mary Elizabeth, b. abt 1872, Bermondsey
Richard Fred, b. abt 1876, Bermondsey
1871, RG 10/634, St. Mary Madgalene Bermondsey
1 Martin Street
Richard Mitchell, 29 Porter At A Wine Merch., Bucks Stoke Pogges
Ellen, wife, 28, Gloucestershire Cirencester
Ellen S?, dau, age obliterated by ink splodge, b. Bermondsey.
There's a possible marriage in Lambeth 1868, Richard Mitchell to Ellen Gardner (the other two on the same index reference are Peter Kreis and Amalie Schatz, who probably married each other). Richard's birth certificate would be a good option to get first, though, in case this is the wrong marriage altogether.
Richard Mitchell d. Mar 1888 quarter, St. Olave district, aged 47 - may be him. Liked to change his age around a bit, eh?
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Hi, Have found 1891 census RG12/369 fol 25
24 Hanover Buildings Rotherhithe
Ellen Mitchell 44 (w) born Coates Gloucester
Mary Elizabeth 19 Machinist born Bermonsey
Richard Frederick 15 Painter born Bermonsey.
Coates is 4 miles west of Cirencester.
Jennifer
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jorose and jennifer,
MANY thanks for this info, it has enabled me to move on somewhat!
However, I now have a Richard Mitchell b1822 from the 1851 census, who I believe was born 'on the seas' (and not 'An the Scal' as transcibed).
Would appreciate your thoughts on whether my interpretation is correct or whether 'an the scal' is in fact a recognised term??
Further, if I am correct and he was born at sea, would this have been recorded anywhere and how might I approach tracing his family?
Thanks again for your help with this.
JJ
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Have you found a possible marriage for the Richard b. 1822? Marriage certificate should give his father's name and occupation, which as record for things happening 'at sea' in the early 1800s can be a bit dodgy, would be a big help - if his father was, say, in the army then Richard might have been born coming back from overseas and the army registers might record him.
He may also have been christened upon return to England.
If you could get an image of the 1851 census and put it up here we can all have a squint and see what we think it says, although 'on the seas' is a fairly good guess. What was the occupation of Richard b. 1822, incidentally?
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Thanks jorose but having trouble attaching an image...dont get a browse option when I click on the 'attach a photo'...' link in reply window. Am I doing something wrong???
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Try posting a census ref and some one else could post it.
Jennifer
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Good idea Jennifer...
1851 Census ref HO 107/ 1718
Appreciate the help!
JJ
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Hello
Note: Nobody is allowed to post images on the Lookup Boards to prevent copyright infringement.
However, I'll post the details for 1851
Bells Stile (guess, hard to read), Stoke Poges, Bucks
Richard Mitchell head 29 Ag Lab b. on the sea (that's what it looks like to me)
Sarah wife 29 b. Bucks Fulmer?
Richard 6 b. Bucks Langley
George W? 2 b. Bucks Stoke Poges
Moses Baker 34 unmarried Lodger Shoemaker b. Notts Warminster?
Hannah Breabury or Beasley (or similar hard to read) 12 visitor b. Bucks Fulmer
HO107
Folio: 544
Regards
Biker
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Me again
Not sure if you're wanting this ...
1861 Cumberland Lodge, Egham, Berkshire
Richard Mitchell head 38 Gardener b. On the Sea
Sarah wife 38 Gardeners Wife, b. Bucks Fulmer
George 12
John 8
Walter 5
all children b. Bucks Stoke
RG9
Folio: 64
Ricahrd (younger) appears to be living with relations.
Hope that helps.
Regards
Biker
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Thanks AGAIN Biker,
Had not got this far as was concerned that I might be 'barking up the wrong tree' as they say! Am pretty certain however (for now!) that this is the family I should be chasing, so am grateful for the info.
Many thanks,
JJ
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Hi JJ
I'll leave it with you to verify etc.
In the meantime, this MAY be them, the surname is hard to read though.
1841 at Werham? Common, Stoke Poges, Bucks. Richard Ag Lab 40 or 42, wife Mary 40 (both born in county), Richard 15 (not born in county) Marianne 12 (not born in county) and other children born in county. Will give the full details when and if you are ready.
So the born on the seas appears to be correct, or at least not in Bucks judging by the other census entries.
Regards
Biker
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Hi Biker,
Long time no speak! Appreciate your help last month but am pretty stuck and hoping that you can help me out?
Re the 1861 census you mentioned earlier ref RG9 Folio 64: I have been unable to find Richard and Sarah on this Census even with the ref. Have looked at 1861 census for Windsor Gt Park to seek Cumberland Lodge and still nothing. It is the only census missing from my records and am wondering how you traced it and whether I am a complete and utter twit?!
Still have found no possible marriage for Richard b 1822 and Sarah b 1822 Fulmer, and have not yet establised Sarah's maiden name, (depite having trudged round relevant graveyards in the rain!) Thus am no nearer resolving the birth at sea mystery (dammit!)
Anyway, would appreciate help finding the 1861 census you cited in your message of 15th Sept.
Many thanks Biker
JJ
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Hi JJ
My mistake, I didn't give the complete reference for some reason.
RG9
Piece 759
Folio 64
Page 8
Apologies.
Hope that is ok now.
On Sarah's maiden name, I wonder if obtaining one of the children's birth certificates may be the route to go?
If so, there are a couple of possibilies the best of which appears to be
George William Mitchell
Jun Qtr 1849
Eton
Vol 6 page 381
You can find it here http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
I guess the Eton registration district covers Stoke Poges - see here http://www.fhsc.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/eton.html
Cheers
Biker
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Hi Biker,
Great! Got it! Reason I couldnt find it was not lack of ref but surname mis spelt as MICHELL.
Thanks again for the help, links and refs to birth for George. Very useful. Guess a bith cert has to be my next line of attack.
Fingers crossed and let's hope I wont need to pester you again!
Cheers
JJ
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Hi JJ
No trouble at all. Apologies for me making it more difficult by omitting the proper refs. Don't get too wet!
Regards
Biker
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Hi Biker,
Thanks for apols but no need, very unlikely that I would have found that census without your help.
Anyway, have found a likely marriage for 'Mr Richard born on the ocean waves Mitchell', and have ordered the cert in the hope that it will provide wife's maiden name and father's occupation. Two birds one stone and not even slightly damp!
Does appear tho that if this is the correct cert, the eldest son may have been born out of wedlock. Oh the shame!!!
Ok enough waffle. Just wanted to feedback as you have been so helpful.
Cheers for now
JJ
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Hi JJ
Good luck with the cert, let us know how you get on.
Here's one possibility to bear in mind once you get the cert ...
1841 - Werham? Common, Stoke Poges, Bucks
Richard Mitchell (difficult to read but thing it is Mitchell) 40 Ag Lab Y
Mary 40 Y
Richard 15 N (i think it's N)
Marianne 12 N (ditto)
Benjamin 10 Y
Susan 8 Y
Sarah 6 Y
William 1 Y
Adults ages generally rounded down to nearest 5 years.
HO107/61/5
Folio: 4
Page: 2
Cheers
Biker
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Hi there,
I have just discovered that you have been trying to find an ancestor of mine - Richard Mitchell b 1822 on the seas. I have followed the same lines as you but got nowhere at first but, with some help from someone else researching the Mitchells of ~Stoke Poges, think I may now be on the right lines.
I think Richard's parents are Richard and Jane, living in Stoke Poges 1841 and nearby Langley in 1851. Richard senior is shown as a pensioner from the Army and I am currently trying to find more details of him. It seems he may have been in the 14th foot regiment from 1809 to 1830 (discharged at age 48).
The 1841 Census entry for Richard and Mary with their children is not the right one - their Richard was born in Acton, Middx.
Richard b 1822 appears to have married Sarah Parker in St Martins, London but I haven't got the cert to confirm this yet. Birth cert of John Mitchell (son of Richard and Sarah) shows maiden name Parker. Will write againnwhen Iget marriage cert. Hope you may get more help on the military side of things.
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Hello there!
I was really pleased to hear from you re: Richard born on the seas Mitchell as I have been at a loss for sometime in tracing his history. My apologies for SUCH a late response but it has been some while since I have looked at my notes and wanted to be sure that I got back with valid info!
Anyway, my records show Richard (b1822) married to Sarah Rebecca DOANE (b 1822 Fulmer - parents Williama and Maria) . Unfortunately I have not been able to clarify whether this info is confirmed on their marriage cert - which I am pretty sure I ordered - but have not yet located!!?
Richard and Sarah are, on my records, shown as having three children;
Richard 1842 Stoke Poges (my line)
George 1849 Stoke Poges
John 1853 Stoke Poges
Walter 1856 Fulmer
Am guessing that your link is with John Mitchell ?
Having traipsed around Stoke Poges graveyard looking (in vain) for Richard b 1922 some years ago when I first started researching, I came across a number of Mitchell headstones, one of which was that of husband and wife Richard (b1780) and Jane (b1793) the latter incidentally having died in Datchet. All dates and places of death are according to headstone.
At the time I was unable to make any links with my Richard but thanks to you this couple may now be a part of my tree! I have photos of the headstone if you are interested.
I would be really interested to know if you have uncovered any further info on Richard senior and of the Army link you mention.
Meantime I shall continue to search for the elusive marriage certificate and keep you posted on any new info that may come to light!
Many thanks for getting in touch and look forward to hearing from you again.
JJ
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Hello again, I'd love to see the pic of the gravestone, which relates to my 3xgt grandfather. Richard, born c 1781 married Jane Butlin in Northants (where his Reg't was based) 19 Oct 1812.
You are right in that my gt grandfather was John b 6 Apr 1852. I have his b/cert which shows he is the son of Richard Mitchell (born on the sea) and Sarah Parker. I was surprised when i received this cert as, like you, I had thought that Richard married Sarah Doane - but no! The Census of Richard, born on the sea, shows Sarah as born in Fulmer, which is where Sarah Brown Parker was born in 1820, so I think it all ties up ok. Richard Mitchell, senior, the husband of Jane, appears to have been in the Army from 1809 to 1831 - in the 14th Regt of Foot (The Buckinghamshire Regt) and was a Chelsea Pensioner because of the length of his service. He was not at the Royal Chelsea Hosp because he had a wife and so was an out-pensioner. His death cert says he was a Sgt and Army Pensioner - d/death 6 Dec 1856. Would now like to hear how we are "related".
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I forgot to mention that the history of the 14th Regt of Foot is a really interesting one and, if only i could get to Kew to see Richard's service record, we could find out which campaigns he was involved in. The 14th Foot were at Waterloo but, of course, we don't yet know if Richard was.
There is a reference at The National Archives which relates to Richard Mitchell, born Langley -WO97/356/6; I'm pretty sure it relates to our Richard. These records are being transcribed by Findyourpast.com and will be available on-line later this year, so we may have to be patient.
If Richard Senior was in the Army then it seems likely that in c 1822 Jane was going to/from/with Richard, wherever he was serving, when Richard Junior was born on the sea. Going a bit further back, Richard Senior is, I think, the son of John and Hannah. Do you have a record of him buried in SP? I think he may have been buried 30 Nov 1831, age 91. Hope to hear from you soon.
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Hi cornishharbour
Welcome to Roostchat ;D
Hi to JanieJ too.
Just to let you know images can't be posted on this part of the forum.
If you want to send things like that, you should exchange email addresses via the personal message system, click on the green scroll under the avatar of the person you want to communicate with.
Please do not post email addresses in this topic.
Dawn
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Hi,
Lots of new and exciting info here - thank you!
Will record Richard's wife as Sarah Brown Parker and stop hunting for that marriage cert! Makes sense that Sarah would have been at sea and traveling when her son was born - all fitting together now.
Ok, the dates with Richard Snr tie in as the headstone shows that he died 6 Dec 1856 but only states place of death for Jane who died July 29 1866 in Datchet - so could guess that as it's not stated he died in SP.
I have just noticed that the inscription reads ' this stone erected by the youngest son Henry', who I do not have on record as a sibling?
Richard b1922 is my 3 x Gt grandfather (maternal). My grandfather being Frederick Richard Mitchell b 1898 Bermondsey - the first in my line since John (of John and Hannah) NOT to have Richard as a first name!
Would be interested to know more about your John's line and which part of the world your family lived and are living now.
Happy to send you the pics I have. If you are happy to send me your e mail address (there is a private message option) I will forward them to you. I shall also look through my photo file for Stoke Poges as I took anything and everything that could have been Mitchell related and remember that there were quite a few Mitchell headstones in SP - although many inscriptions were almost impossible to read - I may find something Hannah and John related!
Watch this space!
JJ
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Ooops I meant Richard b 1822 is my 3xGt Grandfather - Getting late!!
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Hello again,
I have sent you a personal message; hope you get it!!