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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Buckinghamshire => Topic started by: Russ26 on Monday 11 September 06 13:18 BST (UK)
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I would like some help if possible to find out some more about this couple.
James Shaw Robertson was born about Feb 1st 1855 (family records) and died at The Vache, Chalfont St Giles, on 25th December 1940.
He was married to Ethel Elizabeth McCalmont born August 9th 1862 (family records) and who died at The Vache on May 17th 1837.
I can't find birth records for either or marriage details. My guess would be a marriage around 1888 as there was a daughter born Jan 26th 1889 (family records), but again I can't find a birth record.
I also can't find them on the 1901 census 8-((
Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.
Russ
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Hi Russ
Have you ever found either of them on any Census?
1861, 71, 81, 91?
I have found them on a 1930 Passenger List though - their ages are bang on:
San Francisco Passenger Lists
SS "AMERIKA"
Departed Southampton 21 Aug 1930, Arrived San Francisco: 14 Sept 1930
James Shaw ROBERTSON
Age 75 years & 6 months, married,
No Occupation
Able to Read & Write (English)
Nationality: England
Place of Birth London
Last Residence: Chalfont St Giles
Visa #1359, issued London 11 Aug 1930
His Passage was verified later, 1 Nov 1931
He is in Good Health, and described as: 5'10" tall, Fair Complexion, Gray Hair, Blue Eyes.
Ethel Elizabeth ROBERTSON
Age 68 years, married
No Occupation
Able to Read & Write (English)
Nationality: England
Place of Birth London
Last Residence: Chalfont St Giles
Visa #1360, issued London 11 Aug 1930
Her Passage was verified later, 1 Nov 1931
She is in Good Health, and described as: 5'4" tall, Fair Complexion, Fair Hair, Blue Eyes.
Their address in UK is:
Daughter, Mrs Margaret E HAWKINS of "The Vache" Chalfont St Giles Bucks.
They are going to: San Francisco California to visit a friend:
C P WELLS of Carmel, Monterey County, Calif.
They have a ticket to final destination and have $1000 US dollars between them.
The have both been in the US before:
Question: Ever before in the US and if so When & Where:
Answer:
He - About 15 yrs 1915 San Francisco California
She - 3 or 4 years San Francisco California
Final Destination: San Francisco Cal. (crossed out).
This has a handwritten amendment saying : London England.
This means they were not intending to stay in the US - they have a Return Ticket back to London, which is their ultimate, final destination.
They intend to stay: About 6 Months.
Cheers
AMBLY
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Interesting.....
;D
http://www.nla.gov.au/pict/explore/mortimer.html
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=42544
The Vache is described in 1925 as the seat of Mr James S Robertson, the present Lord of the Manor, who purchased it in 1902 from Mrs Edmund STEVENS (nee Florence Ada NEWLANDS).
Describes James S ROBERTSON as marrying into the McCALMONT family. Says the Robertson's daughter inherited the house in 1940 and sold it 1955 to the National Coal Board.
http://www.nmm.ac.uk/mag/pages/mnuExplore/PaintingDetail.cfm?ID=BHC4227
Also says "The McCalmont family … also owned the Hodges portrait of Captain James Cook " which is in turn connected to the Vache, as a large monument to Cook stands there, erected by his great friend PALLISER, a much earlier owner of the Vache. Apparently the McCalmont family sold the portrait in Ireland in 1986, and it was thought they inherited it when they "purchased the house sometime before 1902".
Cheers
AMBLY
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From the TIMES newspaper:
Their Daughter, Mrs HAWKINS was described as about to remarry in 1933 to a Mr Alexander BASHALL DAWSON of Misbourne Chalfont St Giles.
In 1947, a Luisa LIRONI died in Florence Italy and was described as a faithful friend and retainer of Mr & Mrs James Shaw ROBERTSON of the Vache for 45 years; and remembered by Mr & Mrs A BASHALL DAWSON
P R James Shaw ROBERTSON was a Major in the "Cameronians"and attended a dinner in June 1913 in Trafalgar Square.
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/SCT-EDINBURGH/1999-09/0936551708
Alexander Bashall DAWSON
was born 1869 Leith Edinburgh.
Married 1) Aileen Twentyman SMITHERS
Married 2) "Bimmy" McCALMONT
Oh - I see that last one is yours, Russ!! Why is she surnamed McCALMONT, when she was supposedly their (James Shaw ROBERTSON and Ethel's) daughter?
Also saw a reference where the elder son of Alexander Bashall DAWSON was surname ALEXANDER. And "Bimmy"s only daughter, by her HAWKINS marriage, married in the USA in 1940.
Cheers
AMBLY
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Wow! Thank you the extra information and so fast! The passenger information is very useful as it gives the place of birth. All I need to find now is the actual record!
The relationships are not straightforward and it has been taking a while to sort out. I can't find them on the censuses which is puzzling.
Russ
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Hi
I have some pictures of their grave but it seems the pics are too big to upload onto this site.
I can probably load them somewhere else or e-mail them, but the transcription is thus:
Also
In Loving Memory
of
ETHEL MURIEL
HALL
Born Nov 20th 1881
Died Nov 28th 1958
wife of
NORMAN AYLMER
HALL
and daughter of
JAMES SHAW ROBERTSON
and his first wife
JULIA ELIZABETH
(LILY) nee BARKWORTH
Also
In Loving Memory
of
their son
JAMES LESLIE
DOUGLAS
Born May 3rd 1895
Died at The Vache
Aug 8th 1908
In Loving Memory
of
my father
and my mother
JAMES SHAW
ROBERTSON
of The Vache,
Chalfont St Giles
Born Feb 1st 1855
Died Dec 25th 1940
and
ETHEL ELIZABETH
nee McCALMONT
Born Aug 9th 1862
Died at The Vache
May 17th 1937
Also
In Loving Memory
of their grandson
CAESAR CHARLES
HAWKINS, D.S.C. R.N.
Born at The Vache
May 17th 1915
killed by enemy action
in H.M.S. Exmouth
Jan 20th 1940
and of
his father
CAESAR HUGH
GEORGE WILLS
HAWKINS
Born April 3rd 1889
Died in Athens
Nov 7th 1947
Also
In Loving Memory
of
their son-in-law
ALEXANDER BASHALL
DAWSON
Born Oct 19th 1869
Died at The Vache
June 21st 1953
For 20 years the
beloved husband of
their daughter
MARGARET EDITH
Born Jan 26th 1889
Also
In Loving Memory
of
their daughter
MARGARET
EDITH
DAWSON
formerly HAWKINS
Born Jan 26th 1889
Died Jan 14th 1980
Cheers
Dave Morris
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You may already have found out by now but the reason you cannot find them is because James Shaw Robertson, his wife Ethel and brother William Rose Robertson were in Hanford California. They went in 1875 and returned circa 1900 having made a lot of money.
I was reseaching him today because I am trying to locate any manorial documents for The Vache that he may have owned and I searched for him on Google. A number of interesting links come up including his photo. You also need to do a search on James Shaw Robinson as they used this name sometimes.
John
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<<I am trying to locate any manorial documents for The Vache that he may have owned. >>
I will have to check who lived where for you. The Vache was the family home of the DAWSONs from the mid 1920s to the 1950s when it was sold to the coal board on the death of Alexander Bashall DAWSON. There are also family connections with Misbourne House next door. The majority of the DAWSONs' papers and items of historical interest from the Vache are in loan to the Buckinghamshire Museum, although the last time that I contacted them they were unable to find them!
Alexander Bashall DAWSON's second wife was Margaret Robertson (or Robinson).
Russ
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Don't you hate it when someone replies to their own messages!
What I meant to put was that the DAWSONs were at Misbourne House next door and moved to the Vache, and were at the Vache until the 1950s when it was sold to the Coal Board.
Russ
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Thanks for the info Russ, I think the documents must be in The Centre for Bucks studies at Aylesbury (Record Office) rather than the museum. I go there quite frequently so I will check to see if they have accessions from DAWSON. I will let you know the result.
John
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I've been researching James Shaw Robertson and others who were central figures in Hanford, California's "English Colony" of the late 19th Century. In addition to JSR, there are the McCalmont sisters, Ethel and Margaret (Margaret married JSR's business partner, James Ernest Rawlins), William Rose Robinson (1851 - 1885, older brother of JSR) and his fascinating wife, Lilia Napier Rose Robinson. These were remarkable people, and they left a lingering imprint of art, faith, and pioneering development behind when they returned to England. The Episcopal Church of the Saviour in Hanford preserves and uses the redwood chapel built by these and a few others in 1882, decorated with stained glass windows from Florence (the mcCalmont connection) and England and remarkable wall paintings by the McCalmont sisters (see St. Ann's in Syston for similar work done by the McCalmonts after the return to England). JSR's first wife, Julia Eliabeth "Lily" Robinson (nee Barkworth) is buried in our local cemetery, as is William Rose Robinson.
Surprisingly, after 125 or more years, there are pressing issues. I am eager to find living relatives (most particularly among the descendants of Harold and Julia Traill Barkworth, parents of Lily Robinson), and photographs or portraits of any of these individuals to supplement the few images we have of JSR. Lilias Napier Rose Robinson published a couple of very charming accounts of trips to Yosemite and the Sierras with her husband -- rare volumes that warrant re-publishing; verified images of either Lilias or her husband would enhance that project enormously. I would be happy to share the information I've gathered at interpreted on this side of the Atlantic.
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I would be interested in exchanging information, although I am not sure how much I have. My connection is through my wife who is the granddaughter of Alexander Bashall Dawson. ABD married (2) MARGARET EDITH ROBERTSON Abt. 1933, daughter of JAMES ROBINSON (or ROBERTSON) and ETHEL MCCALMONT. She was born January 26, 1889, and died January 14, 1980 in Alameda, California.
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Russ,
It's exciting to learn that your wife is the great-granddaughter of James Shaw Robertson and Ethel McCalmont Robertson. I don't know how much you may already know about the McCalmont and Robinson/Robertson families; for instance, are you aware of the connection with Florence's English Cemetery and the Villa McCalmont (as it was once known)? Are you aware of the beautiful chapel here in Hanford that Ethel was so deeply involved in decorating? If not, there are links and pictures to send your way. There are many documents here that are directly relate to Ethel McCalmont and her husband -- both in church documents and in a trove of business papers that were long ago donated to our local museum. I am researching the English colony of Hanford, of which Ethel was a central figure, as part of an historical project for a centennial. I'll be happy to share with you anything that might be helpful. I don't know how to attach images to this reply, but I do have a few that might be of interest to you, and will pursue some means of providing them.
Mark A.
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England.
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I'm not sure this is of relavance to anyone, but my father was head gardener at "The Vache" from 1950 to about 1954/55 when it was sold to the Coal Board. I spent four wonderful years exploring the estate and remember "Mrs Dawson" as a very nice person.Mr Dawson was not in good health and we didn't see much of him. I can recollect she would have a Christmas party each year for the estate staff. I can still remember some of the games we played. In those days, only my sister, myself and a friend ever seemed to visit Captain Cooke's Monument. Now and then we would have "famous " people visit (ie Dirk Bogarde?) which was fun. My Dad grew corn, grapes, peaches, figs,loganberries and all kinds of stuff that was influenced by California. Hope this is of some interest to the family
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@Mal81
Wow, this is nine years later than your post but you're the first person I have come across with a connection to the staff at The Vache. Was your grandfather William T Weatherly? I have the 1939 census record - my great-grandmother was the cook. Her name was Ethel Neve, and she had an adopted daughter called Kathleen (although she may have gone by the name Patricia or Pat). You remember being there? Do you remember Ethel Neve at all?
I've just started looking into my family tree, as my grandmother was adopted by Ethel but never wanted to trace her biological parents. So there's always been this big mystery.
Sorry for hijacking your post 13 years later Russ :/ Hope you found what you were looking for.
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HELLO,
My name is Denny. We ARE in the process of reprinting Lilias Napier's [Bonar] books on Yosemite & Mineral King. Rare books for sure.
Do you have any photos of Lilias or additional family or personal info on her. We are trying to write up a biography to go along with her books but our internet searches turn up only general info.
Your help will be greatly appreciated.