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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: justme on Monday 11 September 06 07:28 BST (UK)
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Hello all,
Don't know where to start looking. My ggggreat grandmother MARY GUNNY came to Australia onboard the Red Rover in 1832. Her death certificate says she was born in Dublin but parents are not known so I'm assuming that she was an orphan. Are there any files that I can check to see if she was in an orphanage and then somehow made it onto the Red Rover to be a wife or servant in Australia. Any help would be greatly appreciated :)
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Hi There, I'm assuming that you only have a death cert for her and no other information like a birth or baptism cert ? if she did'nt know who her parents were its likely she didnt have a record of her birth cert as even orphans usually have their parents named on their records at that point in time, on that assumption if you dont know which parish she was born in in Dublin it may be very difficult to find her as official BDM records had not begun then ,I thought you might be interested in this http://www.cyndislist.com/austnz.htm and this http://www.cyndislist.com/orphans.htm if you havnt seen them already, it names the Red Rover and gives an email address for someone who gave the link, they may have more information about this ship an her passengens also, regards Damsel
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Hi Celtic Damsel,
A big thankyou for the "cyndislist" websites. Will keep me occupied for quite some time I think!
I have Mary Gunny's death cert. ....She died as Mary Lynch, 1867, in Ultimo Sydney, aged 47 with "not known parents" and born in Dublin. Passenger list says she was 17years, single female and occupation was housekeeper. To find ancestors beyond Mary doesn't look too promising. I will try to find more background on the Red Rover as its passengers on that voyage were girls, mostly from Cork.
I have no idea of a parish in Dublin where she was born and can only summise that she was born around 1820.
Thankyou again for your help and also thankyou for the tip on shaving foam (re reading grave stones) from a fellow "Grave Rubber". :D
Del
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Hi
Just wondering if you are sure that the Mary Lynch who died in 1867 is the Mary Gunny who came on the Red Rover? Various sources combined say she had five children by different fathers - Daniel Fowler later called Denis Lynch, John Lynch, Catherine Lynch, and by John Fletcher Elizabeth Lynch + Mary Jane by an as yet unknown father, possibly also John Fletcher (will be checking on Tuesday). Are they all on your death certificate? Thanks
Annette
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Hi Annette,
My Mary Lynch death cert has her daughter, Mary Jane Lynch of Ultimo, as the Informant. Mary Lynch was recorded as being in the colony (NSW) for 30yrs and married to Dennis Lynch in Sydney at the age of 22yrs. The children (except for Mary Jane) weren't named but the cert said she had 2 sons and 3 daughters living.
My ggreat-grandmother was Elizabeth Lynch who married Charles Cox in 1860. Mary had to give her consent to the marriage as Elizabeth was under 21. Elizabeth kept in contact with Catherine and Mary Jane and descendants are still in contact today. I would be terribly grateful if you would let me know your findings re John Fletcher.
If I can be of anymore help please ask :)
Del
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Hi Del
Thank you very much for confirming that death date! I'm doing this for John, and Elizabeth is his great grandmother, Catherine his grandmother. I believe there is a Cox gathering early this year, and I'm trying to get as much done as I can before then! I shall certainly let you know when/if I find Mary Jane's birth record. When they transcribed from the 1788-1905 microfiche to CD then Internet, entries were missed - that'd how I found Elizabeth's entry, but there were at least seven listings for John Fletcher about that time, so we may never know which one was Elizabeth's father.
Thanks again
Annette :)
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Hi Annette,
This means that you have a birth cert for Elizabeth??
Yes, we are holding a Cox reunion in Kangaroo Valley on 7th March and we would love to see you there if you could come. I can send you particulars if you PM me your address.
I'm very interested to know who Mary Jane's father was so hope you can find something. She had Margaret Nugent and Michael Bulger (who married her sister Catharine) as witness' on her wedding cert.......perhaps there is a clue there. Elizabeth Lynch/Cox had Samuel Spittalhouse and Elizabeth Turnbull as her witnesses....Catherine Lynch/Bulger had John Jones and Joseph Leubelt (??) as witnesses for her marriage to Michael Bulger in 1861.
Much luck with this and many thanks from Del
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Hi Del
Went into the State Records at The Rocks today and the microfilm reel (SR 2795) was disappointing - no information except that she was 17, and the person she and 4 others might have been assigned to was W. Martin, Gloucester St. for 6 pounds. She was no. 93 on the list.
Re Mary Jane - no luck. SR did have the old microfiche, and whereas Elizabeth was listed under both Mary Lynch and John Fletcher, there was no LYNCH, Mary Jane, mother Mary at the end of the LYNCH entries which in the old records are by surname, then alpha by father's first name, then within that alpha by child's first name. Elizabeth was on the baptism registers vol 28 no. 846 should you wish to look at it yourself. If they did Mary Jane's the same way as Elizabeth, she should have been near her sister after the children of men named William Lynch, and she wasn't. Your info re the witnesses might be helpful, and I'll follow through, but I really don't see how we're going to determine which John Fletcher! I'll have a look at musters tomorrow, to see if any were in the vicinity of Ultimo.
Re a Lynch/Gunny marriage - am doubtful - couldn't find on the old records, or on AGCI, and if she didn't marry the father of her first child, why marry the second? Wasn't he much older than her? Her age on the death certificate is wrong, if she was 17 in 1832. If she married Denis at age 22, that would have been 1837, and she would have been 52 when she died. Elizabeth was baptized in the Parish of St Lawrence- wonder if any original records survive?
Apologies re 7th March, and thank you for the invitation, but I have not long booked for lectures at SAG that day - one morning, one afternoon, but I imagine my friends might be there. Will ask next time I'm in contact. I'll post my latest lot of goodies to John tomorrow -do send via Internet but he's very busy and not sure if he always opens them...
Isn't family history endlessly fascinating?!
Regards
Annette
8)
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Hello Annette,
Thankyou so much for letting me know of your findings. They really are a very tricky family to research so I suppose we have to just keep chipping away....lots of oral history.
Re Lynch/Gunny marriage.....Mary didn't marry Daniel Fowler .....he was engaged to someone else at the time and married that girl. Mary was no doubt looking for protection and security, and found it with Denis Lynch who was older than her. It's a mystery of what happened after he died in 1841. We know that she must have been in a desperate state because she applied to have her children (Daniel/Denis, John and Catherine) admitted to an orphanage.....she was pregnant with Elizabeth at this time. Her application (written on her behalf by Rev. James Fullerton) was refused.
Don't know about original records of St Lawrence. Will have to see what is available. Wonder who the Minister/Priest was who performed Elizabeth's baptism?.....Fullerton maybe???
Thankyou again for your help in trying to unravel Mary's life.
Del
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Hi Del
You might be interested in the Purnell/McCord family website - put in "Mary Gunny" "Denis Lynch" Purnell and you'll come up with it.
My friends are going to your gathering - just checked!
Will let you know if I find out anything else!!
Regards
Annette
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Hi Annette,
Thankyou for the Purnell/McCord website. Haven't had time to look too closely yet, but will do-so with much interest shortly.
Looking forward to meeting your friends at the gathering. People from Qld., Vic., ACT as well as NSW have said they are coming so we are hoping for an enjoyable and interesting day with lots of family stories and info swapped.
Would be great if you can uncover anything else. Many thanks,
Del :D
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Hi Del
Just logged in as your message arrived! No luck this afternoon with those other possible surnames for Mary Jane - Mary must have been too desperately poor to get her baptised or the original records were lost. I checked James Ryan's Irish Records, and we'd really need to know exactly where she came from in Dublin plus religion. Some of the Family History Centres listed in that 1997 publication were then in the process of indexing records, but in some places the records didn't even start till Mary was already in Australia. We might have to pass on Mary Jane's father and Mary's birth. :'(
My friends are coming from Qld to your gathering. I'll get them to pass on my personal contact details to you - don't like doing it in a public forum. T
All the best from Annette :)
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Hello Annette,
Yes, I agree that we will probably not be able to find Mary's birth and Mary Jane's is proving particularly difficult. Extra info may come to light one day maybe......(that's just me being very optimistic).
Thankyou for sharing your info. Very much appreciated.
Best wishes from Del
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Hi Del
You're welcome and who knows, one day one of those marvellous transcribers might get to Mary Gunny's records! LDS has a big project going. I send a copy of that document to you with John on March 7th
All the best from Annette :)
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Hi All,
I have only just found this post and have been very interested in the comments and hypotheses put forward. I too am related to Mary Gunny, she is my paternal 3rd great grandmother, I am a descendant of Denis Lynch b 1836. I think I may have corresponded with Annette before via Ancestry. Like you, I have been trying to work out the various relationships and children that Mary had after her arrival on the Red Rover. I was very interested to read the book "Fair Game" by Elizabeth Rushen & Perry McIntyre and see the comments about Mary.
I'm happy to share the few transcripts certificates of Mary's children and Sydney Morning Herald notices if anyone is interested.
Could I ask you for the source of Mary's application to put her children into the orphanage?
Cheers
Les Tobin
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Hello Les,
I have been away from my Mary Gunny research for quite a while and can't seem to locate where to find Mary's application for her children to be taken into care.
I have spoken to Margaret (distant cousin and descendant of Mary), who has a lot of documentation and she will look back at her files and send me the info she has. I can then pass it on to you.
We don't know a lot about Mary but am happy to share any info.
Will be in touch soon. Great to hear from a fellow gggreatgrandchild of our Mary.
Bye from Del
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Thanks very much Del.
I would appreciate anything you have.
When the time comes to send let me know and I'll give you my email address.
Cheers
Les
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Hi Les,
Margaret just sent me the application. It is addressed to "The Honorable Colonial Secretary" 22 July 1842 no. 12/5344 so the original must be kept with the Colonial Secretary's Papers.
I didn't have a copy of the application so am happy to have it now. If you like, I can post it to you because there might be a copyright issue.....but to send me a private message with your email or address, I think you have to put three posts (or something like that) on a Rootschat board. Not sure how it works but email address's will be removed because we should use the PM capability.
We have some info on Mary's children and it was only relatively recently that we found out that she had Mary Jane (a third daughter). The next generation down ie Mary's grandchildren, well, we have a great deal of info.
Good to hear from you
Del ggreat granddaughter of Elizabeth Lynch/Cox (Mary's second daughter)
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That's a pity about the email address.
If you have an Ancestry account I am lestobin151.
The tree with Mary Gunny and all the Lynch's is Fish Family Tree#1
Regadrs
Les
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Les...will try and scan the letter tomorrow. See how I go.
At the moment I don't have an ancestry acc. so, unfortunately , not able to see all the Lynchs.
Del
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Del,
For some general background info on the "Red Rover" search http://trove.nla.gov.au/ during August 1832 mostly in the Sydney Monitor and Sydney Morning Herald.
Also Sydney Morning Herald on 10 January 1916 for funeral notice of Catherine Bulger (nee Lynch), this lists many of the related family.
Also Sydney Morning Herald on 17 May 1904 for death notice of Elizabeth Cox (nee Lynch).
Cheers
Les
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Thankyou Les. Yes, have checked these out previously. Trove is a terrific resource isn't it.
Del
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That sounds good Del.
I have checked on Ancestry and the Colonial Secretary's Papers only go up to 1825, wouldn't you just know it.
Cheers
Les