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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Arranroots on Friday 08 September 06 21:01 BST (UK)
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Frederick James DIX was born in Merthyr Tydfil in 1875 - Garden St to be precise.
His parents were Catherine nee GRAHAM, formerly GOUGH (or GOFF) and George DIX a cheese and bacon dealer (I like him already!)
Frederick is not seen again until 1901 when he is married to Mary and living in Ystradyfodwg, a coal hewer.
His father George has never been seen on a census.
Mother Catherine is possibly sighted in 1881 in Newport, lodging and working as a washerwoman. She was born in Conw(a)y, Caernarfonshire abt 1847 of Irish parents and had been widowed by the death of Patrick GOUGH, likely in Bangor, Wales 1870. She must have dashed south and married George in 1872 in Merthyr.
It seems likely that Frederick stayed in the Merthyr area between his birth and 1901, but where was he? And where his father?
Doing this on behalf of a friend & from memory, so be gentle - any help greatly appreciated!
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Like yourself, cannot locate either, baffled, what an enigma!
Sorry Arran, would have loved to help
Cas ???
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Thanks to Cas & all who tried - there must be a key to it somewhere!
Meanwhile I have recommended that my friend purchase Fred's marriage cert.
Would still welcome any breakthroughs on the census/ BMD front, if anyone fancies a challenge?
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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This may sound silly but are you sure your George was not previously married or something as on my 1851 disc there are a few George Dix! One is married with a son also called George.
You have probably already come accross these but here they are anyway:
George Dix son 16 b. Llanridian wool manufacturer
George Dix hd 39 b. Neath(married) wool manufacturer
George Dix lodger 31 b. GLS Westerleigh cordwainer
George Dix Lodger 27 b. Somerset Norton labourer
I dont know if he was born for this census but its possible i guess and he COULD have changed his job!
??? ??? ???
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No, Badgirl - certainly not discounting George having been married before.
Catherine had been married and had a son John (seems to have been brought up by his GRAHAM grandparents).
In 1851 I would expect Catherine to be 4 years of age. George's age is not known.
I haven't gone back that far in time looking for George, simply because he would not have any occupation and without that I would be unable to identify him positively. He might also be some distance from Merthyr, where Frederick was born in 1875. I note also that cheese and bacon dealer is probably not a skilled occupation, so he could have been labouring or a fishmonger (viz Llanrhidian) or anything!
Thank you sincerely for looking and I think for tomorrow I will try to follow up the Georges you have found & see what became of them.
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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It seems like a tricky one but the 16 year old i suppose is a possibility without of course ruling out a huge age gap in marriage but that seems doubtful. There is a George Dix born 1841 on freecen but he seems to have born in Warwickshire so i guess that's a bit far afield.
Good luck with this one!!!
;)
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Thank you!
Two further things:
I am still bothered by the fact that Catherine was seemingly widowed in Bangor in 1870, yet married in Merthyr (with which she had no known connection previously) such a short time later. Did she meet George in north Wales & move with him?
Along the same lines. Catherine is living in 19 Garden St, Bangor in 1871 with her parents. Frederick is born at 25 Garden St, Merthyr in 1875. Is this a coincidence? Or was he born in Bangor and registered in Merthyr? We have the birth cert.
Boing! Time for bed!
;)
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Hi Arran
What detail does the marriage certificate of George and Catherine give about his age and father.
Rhys
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Hi Rhys
We don't yet have the marriage cert for George and Catherine, just Frederick's birth cert. Sorry if I am getting muddled!
Good to know that all the best brains (self excepted) are picking up the gauntlet!
A ;)
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Perhaps it would be beneficial to obtain the marriage cert for George/Catherine to see if there is clues to the ages/address. The family are not at Garden St, Merthyr in 1881, nor with the Grahams.
In 1861 there is a George Dix in Merthyr with Parents, father Samuel is a fruiter all born Glos, maybe a possibility.
Arran, if you get anymore clues keep us posted. This is bugging me, tried everything, cannot find them, still looking.....love a mystery, but love helping to solving it more
Cas ???
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Arran
Do you think there could possibly be a connection between the missing Frederick and George Dix and the only other family with the surname in Merthyr in 1891.....namely Samuel and Maria Dix?
A large family, they also have a son Fred but he is accountable in the 1901. Is it purely coincidence that they are the only other Dix family in the area? Samuel states his birthplace as Bristol on the 1891 but that changes to Merthyr in 1901.
And, who is the George Dix who shows up in Merthyr in the 1901.
RG13/5025 15 21 Age 52, born Bristol, married to Sarah 31, and with son SAMUEL age 3?? Putting George's details into the census collection search box as they appear in the 1901 gives one result.....yes, the 1901!!
Quite a puzzle!!
pritch
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Hi Pritch
Thanks for taking the trouble to look and yes, the two families certainly warrant comparison to see if they overlap at all.
Thanks for pointing this out, I will investigate further!
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi again
I received this message from my friend, who has now got the certificates.
Have not done any further investigating myself yet:
Here's the latest....
George DIX and Catherine GRAHAM were married on 21-10-1872 in Merthyr register office. He was 24, bachelor, Provision dealer, resident Pontmorlais?, father - Samuel DIX, Publican.
She was 25, spinster (but we know she was widowed because it says 'formerly GOUGH on 1875 birth cert of Fred), resident Pontmorlais, father John GRAHAM, Hawker.
Witnesses Hester (Esther) DIX (George's mum) and James Griffiths.
Using Samuel DIX b.c1825 to search on I found the family in 1851 (St George, Bristol, where the older children including George (b.1849) were born) with George age 2, 1861 (Merthyr, Samuel's occ. Fruiterer) with George age 13. Nothing in 1871. Samuel (licensed victualler) in 1881 with younger children but no wife (died in 1877 Merthyr), and 1891 as an old man occ. cab proprietor (died 1892 Merthyr). However, still no sign of George or his son Fred (b.1875) between 1861 and 1901 when Fred is newly married to Mary Jane.
Fred DIX and Mary Janes marriage cert (1900) confirms Fred's age - 26, father George, cab Proprietor (family business). The witnesses are William Lawrence and Mary Hanies (Harries?) - no relations.
Off we go again!
A ;)
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I can find Samuel & family as DICKS in 1871
RG10; Piece: 5394; Folio: 58; Page: 21
High St Merthyr
Samuel DICKS H M 46 - innkeeper - Gloucester
Esther W M 45 - Bristol
Esther dau 18 - Bristol
Samuel son 14 - do
Sarah Jane dau 10 - Glam Merthyr
Thomas son 8 - do - do
Elenor dau 6 - do - do
Frederick son 4 - do - do
Isaac son 2 - do
No George here however...
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This has to be an outside chance - note that there are HAWKINS step-children in the 1851 household.
1871 census RG10; Piece: 5360; Folio: 53; Page: 4;
George HAWKINS half-brother U [ age illegible, given as 11] - labourer - Glos Bristol
In the household of Henry CHANDLER mason & wife Martha, 11 Gough St, Cardiff St Mary
Looking for Samuel's marriage to Esther/ Hester to check her maiden name.
Feel free to chip in!! ;D
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Looks as though they might have married young:
Marriage
Jun q 1845 Keynsham, Gloucestershire
Samuel DIX
Hester HAWKINS
Vol 11 Page 145
This probably discounts an earlier marriage for H/ Esther, so I am less happy with the CHANDLER connection. Help!
Chandlers look like a red herring:
Marriage
Sep q 1860
Bristol
Martha Rosina BAKER
Henry Thomas CHANDLER
Vol 6a Page 149
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This looks hopeful
1891 census RG12; Piece: 4445; Folio 18; Page 30
George DIX H M 40 - cab proprietor - Glamorgan Merthyr
Elizabeth W M 45 - Pembrokeshire Tenby
George son U 18 - cab driver - Glamorganshire Merthyr
Robert FLOOKS? boarder U 21 - do - Manchester
James WILLIAMS boarder U 50 - Newport Mon
Address 2 Market St private house, Aberdare
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Death
Catherine DIX
Merthyr Vol 11a Page 297
Sep 1886 (b c 1854)
Now we need a corresponding marriage to an Elizabeth
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Hi Arranroots,
Do not know if this will help but there is a George Dix and son George Samuel Dix in Pembroke in 1881, seem to match details of the 1891 you found.
1881 - RG11 Piece 5411 Folio 89 Page 10
Queen Street Gershan Chapel, Pembroke St Mary
George Dix 32 lodger, fishmonger, Merthyr
George Samuel Dix 7 Merthyr
Georgina Jenkins 18
Elizabeth Wright 36
Cas
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So it does!
I wonder if Elizabeth Wright is later Mrs DIX? The Pembrokeshire connection bodes well, do you think?
The age for Geo Saml is also good for the Samuel jr we are looking for. talking nonsense here: it is Fred we are looking for, doh!
Thanks for that - my friend was anxious to keep you all up to date!
:)
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Cannot locate a marriage, although Freebmd is playing up. Think there is a very good match between, 1881 and 1891 for Geo, Liz and Geo Jnr.
This George, seems to be Fred's father? Possibly the parents split, and Fred is living elsewhere with surrogate parents, maybe under their name? I cannot find trace like you.
Cas
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If your friend gets this cert she can then prove/disprove that Catherine is his mother so know it is the right family on census
George Samuel Dix 1873
Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep
Merthyr Tydfil
Volume: 11a Page: 424
Cas
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George Dix Jnr in 1901, age 27, cab driver, single, boarder living with Waite family.
RG13 Piece 5035 Folio 127 Page 8 - Aberdare
Cas
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could this be the marriage ?
George Dix and Elizabeth Morgan march qtr 1890 Crickhowell vol 11b pg 125
The other 2 people on the page are together on the 1891 census.
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That's excelllent and has given us lots to work with - thanks both for your trouble! :D
Now all I have to do is to persuade my friend that it is quite safe to join in the conversation ;D ;D
We will keep you updated of any developments, but thanks again.
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hello - I'm Arronroot's friend, finally persuaded to join in at this late stage, if only to say...a very big 'thank you' to everyone who has helped find George and Fred DIX, the latter is my Mother-in-law's grandfather. She is coming to stay this weekend and will be delighted with all the facts we have found. I now have copies of all the relevant censuses to show her.
This is my first post, so hope it is all correct.... :-\
Thank you again!
Best wishes,
Tuppney
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No, no, no - you did it all wrong ::)
Kidding!! ;D ;D
Welcome aboard Tuppney - I am sure you will find that Rootschatters are harmless (mostly) and very friendly & helpful!
:D 8) :D
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Hello Tuppney, a warm welcome to Rootschat, sure your post will be one of many.
Cas :)
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Thanks Arron and Cas - nice to meet you - it's not so scary after all! ::)
I love these little faces ;D
I guess I should keep to the topic, so I'll just say that I don't think the Catherine DIX death in 1886 is ours because she is too young (b c 1854) ours was 25yrs old on her marriage cert in October 1872 making her birth year c1847.
Can't find any other deaths though. Ho hum.
I'm signing off now,
speak to you again soon,
Tuppney
;)
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Also, if it is the right family, in 1881, George with son Geo Samuel is down as widower.
Cas