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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: SB on Friday 08 September 06 12:13 BST (UK)
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Sorry to be so persistent, but I thought I'd start a new thread out of the ashes of my previous enquiries about the residents of 4, Feathers Place in the 1891 and 1901 Censuses.
Having giving it all further study, and realising that the building just up the road on the same side was The Roan Boys School, and that it had the address of 14, Eastney Street, I am fairly confident that Feathers Place was previously named Eastney Street
Therefore, could some patient person please have a look at the address, 4, Eastney Street on the 1891 or/and 1901 Census?
The existence of this Boys' School might help to pinpoint the household I am searching for.
Thank you and best wishes,
SB
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Hi SB,
Will start to look at the census for you but in the meantime you may or may not have seen this site:
http://www.londontown.com/LondonStreets/feathers_place_1f5.html
There is a link to a map of the area - I also had a look at the old-maps site and it is bringing up a map for 1900.
Is there a particular name you are looking for?
Karen
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Have just done an address search on 1901census online - there is no Eastney Street recorded in Greenwich. There is however Plume of Feathers Court in the right area - do you think this may be the one?
Karen
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Hi again,
Found this old map of c 1870 - if you zoom in you can see that the road is East Street.
http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/images/greenwich/central-greenwich/map-east-greenwich-01279-1338.jpg
There is no number 4 East Street recorded in the 1901 but the following entries appear;
4 Charlton Terrace, East Street, Greenwich
George Hammerton, Head, 32, General Labourer, born New Brompton Kent
Sarah Hammerton, Wife, 32, born Reading Berkshire
Minnie Hammerton, Sister, 14 born Greenwich
John Hammerton, Father, 59, Painter & Glazier born Coventry Warwickshire
4 Wybourns Cottages, East Street, Greenwich
William Chapman, Head, 38, general labourer, born London Greenwich
Caroline Chapman, Wife, 34 also born Greenwich
4 and 5 Smiths Rents, East Street, Greenwich
Henry Sharp, Head, 36, Bricklayers Labourer, born Surrey Upper ????
Elizabeth Sharp, Wife, 28, born Sheerness Kent
Mary 7 and Lillian 3, Daughters born Greenwich
Kind Regards,
Karen
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Not sure if it helps but a 1914 directory lists ......................
Eastney Street (Park Place to High Bridge)
East Side
2 & 2a Edwd Wm H BOORE confectioner
Roan Endowed Boys School
Wm DOWNS & Son cooper
22 William Anthony WILSON temperance brewer
then Trafalgar Rd, Hardy Cottages & Old Woolwich Road
24 Samuel JACKAMAN fried fish shop
St Mary's C of E mission room
Mission House - Edwin VOKES
Henry BROWN waste paper dealer
(Queen's Court)
38 Joseph TAYLOR chandler's shop
48 Ernest FREAK marine store dealer
West side
9 George Ebenezer MORGAN jobmaster
27 & 29 John Hen. SNELLING chan(dlers?) sh(op?)
here is Trafalgar Road
Little Crown PH - Frederick Horden COOPER
here is Woolwich Road
1911 is nearly the same ......................
2 & 2a BOORE confectioner
Roan school
DOWNS cooper
(here are Clark's Buildings)
22 WILLSON temperance brewer
(here are Trafalgar and Old Woolwich Roads)
24 JACKAMAN fried fish shop
St Mary's C of E Mission Room
VOKES Edwin - Mission House
48 FREAK Ernest marine store dealer
27 & 29 SNELLING John Hen (gen shp)
(here is Trafalgar Road)
Little Crown PH
(here is Old Woolwich Road)
Of course, these particular directories only list trades people etc..
Casalguidi
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Hi,
In the 1891 census: following the street order,, next to Crane Steet is Lower East street.
This runs from The main road( Trafalgar Road ) down to Crane Street by the river.
East street is on the other side of Trafalgar road.
Living at no 4 Lower East street is a George Reynolds and family.
RG12- 511 folio 22
Bob
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Eastney Street, as it appears in 1911, is East Street in 1908 so there must have been a name change between those two dates.
So, 1901 directory .................
East Street, Trafalgar Road, East Greenwich
2 George BRIEN builder
4 Mrs Jane BRIEN confectioner
10 James PERRY mechanical engineer
Roan School
(Clark's Buildings)
14 DOWNS cooper
(here are Trafalgar & Old Woolwich Roads)
66 Thomas CARR fried fish shop
68 Joseph EAVES fishmonger
C of E Mission Room
80 Frank SAMOUELLE fishmonger
92 Henry WARD general dealer
West Side of Easst Street
Roan Technical School
19 Fortune of War PH
37 SNELLING dealer
(Trafalgar Road)
45 Little Crown PH
47 Dan PRESCOTT greengrocer
51 Mrs Harriett SARGEANT shopkeeper
(Old Woolwich Rd)
Don't forget that what is number 4 now is not necessarily the same property as number 4 back then ..................... we have seen how the street names have changed and house numbers were even more susceptible to change ;)
I think you need to work back through the local street directories and electoral registers for Greenwich from the present day year by year to ensure that you are tracking the correct property ................. it is quite easy to spot changes in them.
Best wishes
Casalguidi
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Elleray Queen, you have been very busy, thankyou.
I have really been struggling with the address. The Street is Feathers Place today, and I have been told that it once continued North to High Bridge, and was named East Street.Certainly the 1870 map you directed me to shows East Street in that position, so this is very helpful.
The house is situated almost at the junction with Park Vista (named Park Place on the 1870 map).
Casalguidi, your reply seems to answer this question, it would appear that the house I am looking at could be possibly be no 2 or 2a, the confectioner's since the Roan school is close by, today there are two or three houses between I think.
Thanks to you for the further research and also the tip about the local directories, I will get digging, also to Bob.
I know the house was built in 1744, and my interest is in the history of the building rather than in a particular resident .
Thankyou very much for your research which has already taken me forward a few paces.
Best wishes,
SB
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Hi SB
The local street directories and electoral registers should enable you to track the exact building back to c1900 from the present day especially if the numbering/street names have changed over the years as you can verify neighbours etc. appearing in the same order if they are listed with different addresses :)
Casalguidi
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Thanks again Casalguidi. It'll be a little while before I can get down to do the local work, but I am confident that all this advice will give me plenty to go on.
Best Wishes,
SB
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I have a feeling that some of those people listed in the 1901 directory ie. PERRY and BRIEN may appear on the 1901 census with the ref. RG13/539 folio 90 page 29 ................... if somebody could look that up please :)
Casalguidi
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1901 - 10 East Street, Greenwich
James V? Perry 72 Engine Fitter b Cornwall Helton? (sorry my Cornwall geography is rubbish)
Eliza 67 wife b. Cornwall Redruth
refs as above
Biker
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1901 - 2 East Street, Greenwich
George Brien 60 Plasterer (I'm guessing as it has marks all over it) b. London Greenwich
Emma 60 wife Confectioners Baker b. Stafford Tamworth
refs as above
Biker
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Me again
Sorry I didn't read the thread the way through, just saw Casalguidi's mention of the two names.
On the next page, immediately after East Street, is Roan's School. Is that what you're actually looking for?
SB the mention you make of 14 Eastney Street would fit as Roan's School comes directly after 12 East Street.
Let me know if you want anything else.
Cheers
Biker
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Hello Biker, thanks for your work.
You ask if I am looking for the Roan school-
I'm trying to find out about the house that is now 4 Feathers Place. We seem to have established that this road was previously East Street, and the house is today four or five doors down from the Roan school- I need to get down there again to count exactly.This house is at the south end of the road, close to the junction with Park Vista (formerly Park Place apparently).
I understand the school building is used today by the Maritime Museum.
Best Wishes
SB
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Hi SB
At 4 East Street there are two families. Heads are both labourers.
The writing is not the best but the surnames are Bone/Cone or similar and Carne. Sorry difficult writing.
The enumeration, if it helps, goes Plume of Feathers Court (odd numbers), Park Place (20 and 22) and then East St (even starting with 2 onwards). Not much help really since roads were often not enumerated logically.
Regards
Biker
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Hi SB and Casalguidi et al,
A fascinating thread, and I'm going to be no kind of help at all, but I couldn't help but notice someone in one of the households in the vicinity having the occupation of a "temperance brewer". Sounds very like a serious conflict of interest there, or is my ignorance letting me down as usual?
Perhaps someone could look one or two of these families up in the 1881 Census, to see whether there's any mention of 4, East Street, or even that Boys' School...(You did say that the dwelling dates back to 1744, didn't you, SB?)
Very best wishes,
keith
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SB,
Did actually try finding the engine fitter, James V. Perry, aged 52, in the 1881 Census for Greenwich. He was living at 5, East Street, and next door, at no. 4 East Street were the households of Charles LADGROVE, aged 85 and his wife Caroline aged 60; Charles was a pensioner. Also at the same address was Joseph EDSLEY aged 71 and his wife Fanny aged 72; Joseph is "Pensioned Civil Service". The numbers in this street are numbered consecutively, and I have no idea whether this number 4, East Street might correspond to the residence you are trying to trace...
keith
And when I tiptoed the other way down the street, I discovered next to Number 2, East Street, the Roan School with the caretaker living there with his wife, and his sister who was called Temperance Ann BELL. I think I've had a whisky too many, as perhaps Temperance Brewer (whom I mentioned earlier) was actually a person. I think I'll retire to bed. You really do need to exactly count how many houses there are between the Roan School and the dwelling you're interested in next time you're in Greenwich...
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Not sure if you've seen this 1862 map but it's quite clear so will post just in case .............. http://www.motco.com/map/81006/ ................... Road & Street Index (East Street 21,23)
Guess this is the present day location (will post map for own ease of reference)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0sf/
You mentioned, somewhere, that the property has an unusual layout - I'm intrigued now ;D You obviously don't live there so is there a story behind your search .................. interesting property ...................... is it in this picture near to the meridian (GMT) disappearing into the front room of 2 Feathers Place http://shw.fotopages.com/2697772/Studs-across-Park-Vista.html
???
Where's Dimps she knows an awful lot about that area ;D
Casalguidi
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Hello everyone,
Such a lot of helpful information!
As you may gather I am a newcomer to this line of research and I really do appreciate the support I am being given here.
It does take a little while to digest and the detective element is great fun.
In answer to your question Casalguidi, a relative has occupied the house concerned, hence my curiosity, and the reason why I need to visit again in order to walk the streets- maybe as soon as next weekend.
The photo you posted is exactly right. No 4 today is the first brick faced house, and I imagine the meridian line goes right through the centre.The Roan school is the building that juts out a little further down. Have just heard, Keith, that there are 5 doors in between, but the photo seems to indicate that one of them at least is a modern building.
As for the Temperence brewers...no doubt another area for research!
Many thanks again
SB
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Hi
Ok, i grew up on Eastney Street. Eastney st was originally called East Street and one of the oldest streets in greenwich. East Street streched from the river across Trafalgar Road which was laid down in the 1700s and up to Park Vista. John Roan School was in the upper part of East Street. East Street changed its name to Eastney Street in the early 1900s. Eastney Street still survives today up to Trafalgar Road but upper East Street had an estate built across it and the remainder of East Street became Feathers Place after the pub The Plume Of Feathers which is located 20 or so yards from there