RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Matt R on Thursday 31 August 06 16:08 BST (UK)
-
Anybody got info on Mary Ann Owens, daughter of Bernard Owens and Eliza Fox. Bernard's father was called Richard. Mary Ann was born in either Armagh, Down or possibly Tyrone, but the strongest hint is Armagh. Her father Bernard was a farm labourer. Please help, spent a year tryin 2 find her...my g g granny!
-
Hi Matthew i didnt see your Mary ann but there are a few brothers and a sister for her on the IGI site
Father: Bernard Owens, Mother: Eliza Fox
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
the first Peter must have died because these 2 were taken from An extracted birth or christening record from Irish civil registration records
Colette
-
Wow, thanks Colette. Very useful :D I was thinking Mary Ann's birth would not be registerd, because it was before 1864. Any ideas how I can get hold of parish records for Down, and what does the 0558 Clonavaddy mean. Is it an adress? Parish?
-
Hi Matthew. First you will have to find out where in Down they were born then you can get the parish, and the 0558 in front of Clonvaddy? I dont know what it means but Clonvaddy is in Dungannon County Tyrone. It seems as though Bernard and Eliza started of in Tyrone then made their way to county Down going by the birth dates of the children. I'll keep a look out for any useful info for you like trying to find the parish in Clonvaddy.
Colette
-
Thanks Colette. Im having trouble tracing Mary Ann. It is not confirmed, but it was mentioned by my g gran (Mary Ann's daughter), long back. My gran remembers Armagh being mentioned, and also County Down! But the trouble is, being born before 1864, M.A's birth wont be registered, but her baptism would be, but Ive got over a hundred parishes in two (possibly three now Tyrone's come up). If what you sday is true, Mary Ann may have been born in Tyrone! Argh. Im a wee bit frustrated ???, but I shall carry on looking. Im overseas, but is there a possibility her father will be recorded in any valuation thingys. He was a farm labourer, and I think later a school janitor, in either Ireland or Scotland. Its a shame the info hasnt been recorded in my family, although we have a rough idea. I ll keep you posted though if I find anything. Thanks for the research Colette
Matthew
-
I know one child, Joseph Owens b.1879, was born in Downpatrick, so I will research that area firstly.
-
Good Idea Matthew ;D
Colette
-
Hello Colette. Ive just found something, but thought I will check it with you first. Ive just gone to www.ancestryireland.com and put in a search for Mary Ann Owens. I found a Mary Ann Owens born in County Down, in 1862. I have her death certificate from scotlandspeople.gov, that says she was 79 when ahe died in 1941. Count back 79 from 1941 and you get...1862! ;D County Down is where her siblings that you found were all born. Could this really be her? I thought her birth wouldnt be registered. Or is it wishful thinking. I need to be sure before I pay to see the record, but it seem to match. There is the slight chance, though it is somebody else. What do you think. You know Ireland better than I do... Im over in England!
Matthew
-
Yes Matthew i saw that as well but i didnt mention it to you incase it was the wrong one, Its Peters Owens Birth in 1865 in Tyrone thats putting me of. would they have had Mary Ann in Co Down then moved to Tyrone and had Peter then moved Back to co Down? it is possible I suppose and if this Peter died as it would seem maybe that would have made them go back to County Down.
Its entirely up to you what you want to do about this One on the ancestry Ireland Site. I just wish it didnt cost £6 :-\
let me know how you go.
I just checked http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/O/OmOy.htm
and got this
Bernard OWENS . Down registered. Downpatrick; husband of Eliza Fox; father of Peter b. 25 Nov 1869
Colette
-
Wow, I never knew about that site. Thanks Colette. It is bothering me, but I think I will give that site a go, although its £6! Then again, the info is priceless I suppose. Im not sure about the family's movements though, Im as stumped as you on that one Im afraid :-[ However, only one of the children appear to have been born in Tyrone, so it appears they may not have been there long. Maybe my family have heard of Armagh, because thats where Mary Ann left from to go to Scotland (she moved there around 1881). I dont know the order of things, but on two relatives of bernard Owens' certificates, one says farm labourer and the other says school janitor. I somehow think that he had a farm, yet because of tensions at the time, he may have lost the farm, settled in Tyrone, found it wasnt for him, moved back to Down. Then, as things escalated, the family just decided to get out of there.
Also, he may have lost the farm as a result of the famine years, which I think were (1847-51). I do have a photograph of Mary Ann, but that wont help.
I think this is going to keep me intersted a lot longer. Theyre all out there somewhere, waiting to be found.
Matthew. Thanks again Colette, let me know if anything else comes up!
-
I know Mary Ann and her family were very very Catholic, so maybe this stemmed from the fact that there was and still is a huge cathedral in Down. Maybe the family moved to Down, where Peter was born, and simply moved back, perhaps because Tyrone was "less" Catholic, if you get my meaning. If I was Mary Ann (or her parents), Id certainly want to move back there, if Peter died there, as is possoble. Im going to try that ancestryireland site. Let u know how I get on, but Im fairly optimistic about it.
-
Colette, Ive just been on the ancestryireland site, and it turns out that it is the wrong Mary Ann. Not feeling too pleased >:(
That is very annoying.
-
Hi Matthew I did the same last week on that site looked at 5 different John Doyles (my grandas brother born about 1902) and none of them was him :-\ . My friend Tina and i have been sitting here talking about your Mary Ann and Tina said that it is possible as you said that mary Ann was born in Armagh that they could have started in Armagh moved up to Tyrone then over to Down.
It seems to have been the rage in the 1880s to go to Scotland, My grt grandas brother married a girl in Armagh and they then went to england and then over to Coat Bridge larnarkshire. and he was born in 1860 2 years before your mary Ann.
Do you have a map of Armagh Tyrone and county Down if you do you will see how close they are its like a triangle with Tyrone at the top.
Colette
-
Yeah, Ive got one, but where would Mary Ann had left Ireland from,. Possibly Dundalk in Down? Armagh seems to have no coastline. There is another link to Ireland though. In Scotland, Mary Ann (widowed) married to a Michael Hughes, who was born in Lurgan, but grew up in Downpatrivk. I will see if I can get further on that branch. Its just that from the outset of this, Mary Ann's birth date and certificates have been my main goal :'( Besides, I will have to give it a break...Im back at school on Thursday! All Mary Ann's surviving grandchildren say their mum (Mary Ann's daughter) told them "she came from Armagh". Do I really have a chance of finding her? Its just there are so many parishes to look up-I cant ring them all!
-
I think the movements Tina suggest make a lot more sense than mine! ;D
-
Sorry I keep bothering you Colette! Ive searched google, but havent found quite what Im looking for, but do you know of the best site I can go on to make my own free family tree website?
-
I think I have a potential breakthrough! Mary Ann's granddaughter, still lives in Scotland, where Mary Ann migrated to from Ulster. She says that her father went back to County Armagh to see the farm Mary Ann grew up on. She thinks she has the location...somewhere. Also, I was looking through the scotlandspeople records, and I found Mary Ann's sister Catherine's sons birth certificate. And, on there, it has that Mary Ann's sister Catherine Owens married a Charles McMillan on March 10, 1880, in ...BELFAST. Her father (Bernard Owens) occupation should be on there, and this is only a year before the family left Ireland. So, what Im saying is that if he is listed as a farmer, it means Mary Ann was living in Armagh, and that was where she went to Scotland from. How do I get that marriage certificate though?
-
Hi Matthew you are not bothering me at all in fact im excited to see how its all going. Great news about the catherine Owens now if you only want the wedding cert details you can go here
http://www.familyulster.com/family_ulster_records_BMD_requests.htm
It only costs £3.50
But if you want a Full copy of the cert go to
http://www.groni.gov.uk/index.htm
It costs £11
Colette
-
I hadnt actually heard of that site. It mustve been hiding from me. All thats left now is to persuade my relatives to help me get there! This is an expensive business, lolo. These near misses dont help either! Thanks for the site info. I apprreciate what you are doing. ;)
I did find though, Mary Ann's fathers death certificate. Ive inserted it for you to have a look at it. He died on the crossing from Ireland to Scotland.
This means two things:
1) Bernard (and thus Mary Ann and co.) came over from Ireland in 1884.
2) My gran says Mary Ann came over to Scotland when she was 18! , and saved her wages (she was a domestic servant, so I think she lived where she worked). When she had enough money, she "brought her parents over". Bernard Owens died in the Western Infirmary, Glasgow, and the cert.says Mary Ann was present. I dont know whether she went over to Ireland again to personally bring them back though, the passenger lists were not kept, but I will try that site. Thanks
Matthew
-
This is strange. Bernard Owens cert. says his usual residence was 44 Richard Street, Glasgow, same as Mary Ann. So, do you think she saved her wages, and could only bring one over at a time. She might not have firstly come over by herself after all, but her sister got married in Belfast (Antrim, ANOTHER COUNTY!), and she (Catherine) came over to Scotland too, so that further weakens that the family came over from Armagh. Thats quite confusing, but Im sure you know what Im talking about, even if it sounds like I dont! :-\
-
Matthew if Mary Ann went over To Glasgow she was 18 then it would have been 1880 you need to check the 1881 Census for her. Go onto the Scotish Boards and ask someone to help with Mary Ann Owens Domestic Servant on the 1881 Census for Glasgow. also check the 1891 Census for her too see if maybe she was living with Catherine.
Colette
Ps Bernard died in Glasgow but we dont know how long he had been living there.
-
She was widowed in 1891, and living with her first born. She married in 1885, but was widowed in 1889. There is a Mary Ann Owens and a Bernard Owens in the 1881 census, but they are married. Maybe its older relatives from the same family. I know how traditional passing down of names was very popular then. I know she worked in a castle, so that should narrow my search down a bit! ;D
-
On the Census what was given as place of birth for on these 2 entries?
Colette
-
Ireland. Thats all it said, but the ages were 54 and 45, it made me think though. Its peculiar that both names are there. Could be possibly Mary Ann's uncle and aunt. Strange though, all the same. I will keep you posted.
-
Ive been trailing through the maps, and remember I mentioned Clonavaddy, in Dungannon? Well, there is a Dungannon district in Armagh too. Is is possible the parish stretched over the border of Armagh/Tyrone? If so, I think thats where Mary Ann was nborn, thus they were in the same parish when Peter was born in Clonavaddy. They must have moved county, but remained in the same parish! So it seems it is now
Armagh --------Tyrone --------Down
Maybe thats it? What do you think?
-
Hi Matthew Clonavaddy is in Dungannon In county Tyrone.
Maybe you should put a post on the Tyrone Board, it might throw up something useful?
Colette
-
Oh, I thought I saw it on the border with Armagh, but Ive already put a post on ulsterancestry, so now its a waiting game :)
Regards
Matthew
-
Hi Colette, Ive gone onto www.failteromhat.com.
On there Ive been looking at Griffiths Evaluation. Ive found a Bernard Owens living in Backaderry, Drumgooland, in Co. Down, around 1864. Then, I found a Mary Owens, she is listed in the exact same place, but Ive found nothing more than that. It may be my relatives, but I cant get further access to Griffiths, but I will keep you posted
Regards
Matthew
-
Hi Colette, Matthew from England here!
Ive been continuing to research Mary Ann's family in Ulster as you know.
I know that on Mary Ann's mother Eliza Fox's death certificate, her parents are registered as John Fox and Eliza Docherty, but on her marriage cert they are supposedly William Fox and Ann Russell. I decided to go with the latter, because it is likely Eliza reported these details herself.
On PRONI, I found in the Freeholder records a William and Ann Fox, living with a John Fox, so whether or not John was William's father I do not know.
They are living in Armagh :) in Clancore!
Just updating you Colette, thanks for the past research youve done, its appreciated believe me
Matthew
-
Hi Colette, I went over to Clonavaddy in August, but nobody knew where it was. When somebody finally did, it turned out to literally be a road with 10 houses. Unfortunately, I didnt really know what Church I should search, I guessed Dungannon RC but we ran out of time. As I was travelling with friends, i couldnt take up all their time. But I have found now Bernard and Eliza's kids, by lookng at death certificates in Scotland. All were born in Irealnd. The places are still sketchy, Ive got no further with that.
But here are the kids Ive found so far, the date of births I have included are going by how old they are as listed on death certs
Mary Ann Owens (c1862) Ireland
Catherine Owens(1866) Ireland [married Belfast 1881 wouldve been aged 15 so possibly older than Mary Ann as 15 seems too young]
Peter Owens born 1865 Clonavaddy, County Tyrone
Peter owens (2) 1869 County Down
John Owens (c1870) Ireland
Bernard Owens (1871) Downpatrick, County Down
Elizabeth Owens 1874 Down, County Down
Ellen Owens (c1877) Ireland
Joseph Owens (1879) Downpatrick, Down
Looks like its time to trawl through Downpatrick's RC records ;D
Regards
Matt :)
-
Just letting you know on this board that I have found Mary Ann's baptism! She was baptised May 5 1862 in Aghaloo, County Tyrone, and her parents Bernard Owens and Eliza Fox married there November 3 1858. Bernards parents were Richard Owens and Margaret Downie...Eliza's were William Fox and Ann Docherty.
Cheers for all your help guys along the way!
Matt :)
-
Hi there, new member here.
I'm descended from this line, my great-grandmother is Catherine McMillan, sister of Mary Ann Owens.
Mary Ann is the great-grandmother of fellow poster Matt R. I would dearly love to be able to be in contact with Matt R.
I think as a new member I have to make a minimum of 3 posts before I can send a PM to Matt R? So I hope you will forgive me for making post #3 here and in the hopes that Matt R might see.
Matt R, if you do see, please contact me.
Many thanks.
-
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Matt R was online here back in January of this year.
You can now send him a PM (Personal Message) to exchange details.
See https://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Good luck.
-
Hello Kiltaglassan.
Many thanks for your post, delighted to say that MattR has seen my messages and reached out to me.
Appreciate you and Rootchat's assistance in enabling me to connect.
Cheers,
-
Congratulations, DoctorDon :D :D
If you need any more help, just ask.
Happy sleuthing
KG