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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: kiansmom on Monday 28 August 06 12:15 BST (UK)
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Hi, am looking for any information on a Boyard Family. Robert Boyard c1814 according to censuses was born either Mancetter or Atherstone. From his marriage certificate his father was John Boyard a hatmaker.Robert moved to Walsall Staffs sometime before the 1841 census.Not a lot to go on but worth a try
Linda
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Hi Linda
Robert Boyard/Ch.22/2/1814/Mancetter/Fa.Robert/Ma.Catherine
Are you sure of your info?
Regards Jim
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There were 2 Boyards in Mancetter active at this time,the other being John & Ann so it's possible that John had a son of the same name at about the same time.You may have to search the records at the War.CRO. for both locations.
No much help I know
Jim
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A bit of a conundrum
Found this
John Boyard/Ch.22/2/1814/Mancetter/Fa.John/Ma.anne
Both boys christened on the same day.
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1861 census RG9 2013 folio 51
3 Upper Rushall Street Walsall Borough Staffordshire
Robert Boyard 43 Atherstone, Warwickshire, Head Widower Locksmith
Eliza Boyard 20 Walsall, Staffordshire, Daughter
Henry Cawfield 14 Walsall, Staffordshire, Grandson Locksmith
Ann Boyard 77 Atherston, Warwickshire, Visitor Widow Silk Ribbon weaver
1841 census HO107 983/4 folio 34 page 27
Walsall Staffordshire
Ann Boyard 55
Willim Boyard 20 Locksmith
Mary Boyard 20 Staffordshire
Sarah Boyard 10
1851 census HO107 2023 folio 53
Field Gate Walsall Foreign Staffordshire
William Boyard 30 Atherstone, Warwickshire, Head Married Locksmith
Mary A Boyard 30 Walsall, Staffordshire, Wife Married Buckle Stitcher
Regards
Valda
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Thanks both, I have Robert on census from 1841 to 1881 (1891 a mystery as he didn't die till 1900, waiting for cert to arrive) he has been very badly minstranscribed sometimes
he Married Lucy Corfiled 1838 he says he is 21 and father John Boyard Hatmaker
he marries again in 1867 aged 48 and a widow Father John Boyard Hatter
most of the censuses say he was born Atherstone but can't find a John Boyard that would fit
Linda x
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If the Ann of the 1841 census was Robert's mother, then it is very likely John was dead by the 1841 census. There was no requirement on marriage certificates to state whether your father was deceased or not (there is no question on the certificate for it). It was a very hit and miss affair, whether it is stated or not. If it wasn't stated, this is not evidence that the person's father was still alive.
May be Jim can give the other baptisms in Mancetter for John and Ann Boyard to see the names of their other children. If not you can search for William's marriage to see if he gives the same father's details as Robert.
Regards
Valda
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Thanks Valda, i will see if I can find Williams marriage and order cert for that
Linda x
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These are the Mancetter births at that time:
John & Ann Boyard:
Edeth/12/2/1810
John/24/1/1814(discrepancy with IGI main site)
William/Ch.25/7/1819
***************************
Robert & Catherine:
Eliza/29/1/1810
Ann/7/1/1812
Robert/22/2/1814
Sarah/21/10/1818
Atherstone was at this time part of the Mancetter Parish and no records exsist prior to 1825.
Jim
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It's evident that not all the children appear on the transcribed pages.Robert & Catherine had at least another child,Caroline c.1825(who had 2 illigitimate children,irrelavent I know just a bit of tittle-tattle).
If you want to follow this to the bitter end you need to search the Mancetter register at the War.CRO.There are a number of Robert & Johns' in Mancetter/Atherstone over the 19C. so it's perfectly conceivable these 2 brothers named children after each other.
Jim
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Thank you very much Jim for all that information. Don't know when I will be able to get to Warks RO.family commintments mean very little spare time.
My Robert called his children Eliza and John, so families could well be related and named kids after each other.
Linda x
p.s have found a marriage for William Boyard jun Q 1841 in West Bromwich, would that have been after the census was taken?
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yes,the census was taken usually end of March beginning of April except for 1861 when it was taken in June if memory serves correctly.
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I saw that marriage on FreeBMD but the reference which makes it West Bromwich registration doesn't cross check to any other marriages - as the others on the page are all Stourbridge.
Marriages Jun 1841
BOYARD William W Bromwich 18 575
The West Midlands marriage index cross references the marriage to a Mary A.
http://www.bmsgh.org/cgi/marrind.cgi?county=westmidlands#surname
West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1841
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BOYARD William DOBSON Mary A Wednesbury, St Bartholomew Sandwell 32/1/204
You could follow the instructions and order the certificate from Sandwell registry office.
Alternatively the GRO reference on FreeBMD for Mary Ann Dobson is
Marriages Jun 1841
DOBSON Mary Ann W Bromwich 18 675
I checked the GRO index itself at (where anyone can see them - not subscription)
http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx
and the page number 675 for William, is the correct reference. Before ordering I would always check the original GRO index and not just rely on FreeBMD to have transcribed the entry correctly.
Census night in 1841 was very late - it is usually the end of March or very early April. In 1841 it was 6th June. The June quarter for marriages covers marriages in the months April, May and June.
Because of the chemicals involved in the hatting process (mercury) many hatters did have a relatively short life span. Mercury poisoning is where the expression 'mad as a hatter' comes from.
"Hatters really did go mad. The chemicals used in hat-making included mercurous nitrate, used in curing felt. Prolonged exposure to the mercury vapors caused mercury poisoning. Victims developed severe and uncontrollable muscular tremors and twitching limbs, called "hatter's shakes". Other symptoms included distorted vision and confused speech. In advanced cases, hatters developed hallucinations and other psychotic symptoms."
Regards
Valda
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Thanks again both. I will go to West Brom RO (am on first name terms with the registrar there) and get William's cert.The staff there are very helpful last time it only took 2 hours to get certs and they phoned me as one birth cert had a different mother to the one I had. Robert Boyard's second marriage was in West Bromwich as was the marriage of his daughter Eliza.Just might be the break through I need with this family
Linda x
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Hi again,
Have got William's marriage cert to Mary Ann Dobson.
William is 21 bachelor lockmaker his father is John Boyard Hatter so this must make William my Roberts brother?
thanks
Linda
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Well the laws of probability strongly tell you so.
Both Robert and William are born in Atherstone (where there are baptism records for them for the right ages and to the same parents)
Both are in Walsall
Both are locksmiths
Both name John a hatter as their father (and both don't give deceased even though he probably was)
Both have a census connection with an Ann Boyard of roughly the same age who is probably their mother
Both have a rare surname (the modern database of the Office of National Statistics doesn't even recognise it as a surname that nowadays exists).
On the 1841 census there are two daughters. Mary born Staffordshire circa 1820 and Sarah not born Staffordshire circa 1830.
SARAH BOYARD
Birth: 20 JUL 1829
Christening: 01 FEB 1846 Atherstone Near Tamworth, Warwick,
Father: JOHN BOYARD
Mother: ANN
The only 1851 census entry I can find for Ann is in Atherstone.
HO107 2064 folio 354
Dog Lane Atherstone Warwickshire
Ann Boyard 66 Witherley, Leicestershire, House Servant Widow
There is this possible marriage for Sarah.
SARAH BOYARD
JOSEPH BOYARD
Marriage: 25 DEC 1852 Aston Juxta Birmingham, Warwick
1861 census RG9 2174 folio 50
44 Court Little Barr Street Aston Warwickshire
Joseph Boyard 31 Atherstone, Warwickshire, Head Married Tinplate worker
Sarah Boyard 31 Atherstone, Warwickshire, Wife Married
Ann Boyard 7 Aston, Warwickshire, Daughter
Harriet Boyard 6 Aston, Warwickshire, Daughter
I can only find one Sarah Boyard on the 1851 census.
HO107 2065 folio 269
Lutterworth Road Nuneaton Warwickshire
Sarah Boyarde 21 Atherstone, Warwickshire, Servant Unmarried
Tempting though this marriage is for Mary - William was a hatter and their daughter Sarah was subsequently born in Atherstone (so the laws of probability here said I was onto a sure thing!)
MARY BOYARD
WILLIAM WOODBURN
Marriage: 09 APR 1844 Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick
But I tracked Mary in 1851 to Leicestershire where she was born and where she was the daughter of Robert and Elizabeth Boyard also born Leicestershire!
Regards
Valda
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Helo Linda
Looking at the birth entries for Robert & John I wonder if the people at IGI have mixed up the names.As there is a discrepancy with the dates (22/2/14 for both & 24/1/1814 for John).
As you have positive dates suggest contacting War.CRO and ask them to check the entries.
http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/countyrecordoffice
Jim
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Thanks again all. Will contact Wark RO and see if they can help me
Linda x
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The IGI gives this information extracted from the parish register
JOHN BOYARD
Christening: 24 JAN 1814 Mancetter, Warwick
Father: JOHN BOYARD
Mother: ANNE
WILLIAM BOYARD
Christening: 25 JUL 1819 Mancetter, Warwick
Father: JOHN BOYARD
Mother: ANN
ROBERT BOYARD
Christening: 22 FEB 1814 Mancetter, Warwick
Father: ROBERT BOYARD
Mother: CATHERINE
SARAH BOYARD
Christening: 21 OCT 1816 Mancetter, Warwick
Father: ROBERT BOYARD
Mother: CATHERINE
MARY BOYARD
Christening: 18 MAY 1819 Mancetter, Warwick
Father: ROBERT BOYARD
Mother: CATHERINE
CAROLINE BIARD
Christening: 18 AUG 1822 Mancetter, Warwick
Father: ROBERT BIARD
Mother: CATHERINE
and from the civil registration
Deaths Dec 1900
Boyard Robert 82 Walsall 6b 459
which gives Robert a birth date of circa 1818
1891 census ?
1881 census aged 62 = birth year circa 1819
1871 census aged 51 = birth year circa 1820
1861 census aged 43 = birth year circa 1818
1851 census aged 33 = birth year circa 1818
1841 census aged 20 = birth year between 1817 and 1821
So he is pretty consistent with his age and never really goes before 1818. He looks to be the child 'sandwiched' between John and William.
Deaths Sep 1866
BOYARD William 46 Walsall 6b 323
I don't think Walsall parish registers are on the IGI and that may be where you have to look for Robert and Mary's baptisms (even if Robert was born in Warwickshire he could have been baptised later as his younger sister Sarah was) and for the burials of the two Johns - father and son (Mancetter is on the National Burial index - their burials are not there. The John Boyard death registered Atherstone in 1837 is a child of 2).
The Birmingham and Midland Society for Genealogy and Heraldry have a county wide (I think) burial index for Staffordshire up to 1837 and also a probate index.
http://www.bmsgh.org/
It might also be worth looking at their marriage index for Warwickshire for the marriage of John and Ann.
Regards
Valda
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Hello both
The Walsall Parish records are here:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyStafford_(N-Z).htm#W
Jim
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If they are on the IGI (and Hugh Wallis source is the IGI) then the two baptisms - Robert and Mary's were not at Walsall parish church. Burials of course are in the main not included on the IGI.
Regards
Valda
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Thank you so much both, lots of information I need to try and digest. Am still pretty new to this family history and get myself confused some times.
Linda xx
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Don't we all ;)