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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: dhowse on Sunday 27 August 06 05:21 BST (UK)
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For about 10 years I have been trying to find the parents of Charlotte Johnstone ( Johnston) . There is a birth for a Charlotte Johnstone on the Qld pre separation index but it gives a birth date as well as a christening and at age 8 she would be far too young.
She was the ward of Mrs Elizabeth Ann Devine at her marriage in 1862 usual place of residence Three Mile Creek,Ipswich. She made her mark on the certificate but a Mary Johnstone signed as a witness.
If Mary was her mother why was she someones ward. At first I thought Mary might be a sister but Charlotte uses the middle name Mary.
Her death certificate shows
Charlotte Rabbitt, date 30 Oct 1904 at Brookfield Farm near Inglewood
occupation: Selector
cause : Rupture, general asthenia
name and surname of father : Johnstone
No other details of father listed
certified by: James Rabbitt, son , Brookfield near Inglewood
Buried: 30 ct 1904 , Inglewood
Two witnesses: J.C. Sandford, E. Duffy
Where born and how long in Australia states, stating which : Sydney , New South Wales, all life in Queensland and New South Wales
Where and When married: Ipswich, Queensland
Age at marriage: 16 years
To whom: John Rabbitt
Issue living in order of birth , their names and ages:
living- John 40, Robert 38,Annie 36,Charlotte 33, Harriet 31, William 28,Walter 26,James 22, Agnes 20, Edward 17, Lily 15
Deceased - 2 males , 1 female
the birth of a child gives the place of birth as Brisbane the death certificate gives Sydney
Any ideas?
Debbie
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Have you thought about Sawers?
MZ
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Sorry that's the wrong place.
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Hi There,
BIRTHs
HARRIETT LAURA ,WILLIAM L and WALTER all born in WARIALDA in NSW to a John and Charlotte.
DEATHs
The only death here in NSW for a John and Charlotte is a ROBERT RABBITT in 1940 at BOOMI
MARRIAGEs
A Walter P married DOYLE ELIZA L at GLEBE in or on 1918
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thanks
the births are mine not sure about the marriage
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Debbie,
Just checking that you have viewed thr RABBITT list in the Inglwood Cemetery
http://www.interment.net
There is also a substantial Johnstone list there.
I would not discount the likliehood that the MARY is a sister. [or close relative, sister- in -law]
The same given name was often repeated through children with same parents. Quite common practice.
When does Charlotte use the middle name Mary? On What?
Failing a clearer search result from Chatters, you may find that persuing MARY is your best bet.
Mrs Devine may also have been related and she could be looked at.
I am sorry I do not quite understand your first paragraph. Too young?? for what'
Cheers Sue
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thanks sue
the too young I was referring to was to get married age 8 and have children the next year.
their first child is born 1863 at Ipswich , their second on Johnstone Station near Inglewood in 1864
i have tried following up the Devine family, they leased properties in the Inglewood area - "Swithland" and "Whetstone". I thought perhaps Charlotte was employed by them as a nursemaid as they had a lot of children. I have considered that she may be related to Elizabeth Devine nee Martin or the child of a convict .
debbie
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Hello there Debbie
on the qld index there is
baptism
for
charlotte Johnston 27/11/1852 1854BP1864
parents john johnstone and sarah adams
now if it is a baptism she does not have to be a baby she could habe been older awaiting a preacher/minister in the area
regards jenn
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The Baptism given by Jenn is also on the AVRI and it specifies Ipswich, Roman Catholic. There can have been very few (if any) RC folks around Ipswich at that time, so it is quite possible the child may have been born earlier and been waiting to be baptised. Were the family Roman Catholics?
There is also a brother Patrick with a Baptism date 28 Jan 1850 (which rather refutes the above argument :( ). Ref 1854/BP1613.
The same records would be in the NSW data base as they have most Qld records until separation.
Ipswich was officially given it's name in 1846, about the time your lass would have been born. She may have been born in Sydney & baptised in Brisbane. I am unsure why Baptisms of 1850/1852 have a registered date of 1854?
If you thought this may be your baptism, the cheapest way to get the details would be via a NSW transcription ($10) - but there may be no more data - although baptisms of other than babes, have been known to include the age.
The pre separation BDMs for Queensland are very few and far between :(
It is also possible that your lass may have been younger than 16 when she married - but presumably at least 12. I have a Tasmanian marriage where the bride was 12 or 13 in about 1811.
I cannot find a suitable death record in Qld for the mentioned Sarah although there is a death for a John Johnston in 1882 - no parents given.
Trish
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Thanks
Trish
My mother looked at the film of that baptism for me and found it also contained a birth date, it made her around age 8 at marriage. Her granddaughter marries at age 14 but 8 just seems too unlikely.
If it were not for the age she is a good possibility in other ways. John Rabbitt and Charlotte Johnston's second son Robert marries a Helen Adams. A descendant told me that he looked at his grandfather as he was dying and was surprised to notice that he was an aboriginal man. He believes it was the Adams family that were probably aboriginal.
debbie
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Hi
There is a Charlotte JOHNSON registered in NSW in 1849 parents: James & Maria
Genni
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Hi Debbie
It seems there is an error somewhere. If she was baptised in 1852, she would have to be 9 or 10 as a minimum in 1862.
Jenni's find looks possible also - but the odds are probably still with the option that there are no surviving records from that time.
Good luck
Trish
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Thanks
I have not seen the Charlotte Johnson 1849 one before, I think I'll get a transcription for that one and hope it contains some information.
Debbie
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Hi Debbie,
I am interested if you have made any progress with John Johnstone & Sarah Adams. I have recently discovered the identity of my deceased mothers birth parents and I am trying to trace her family tree back and have come to the same block that you did on her mothers side. Sadly it is worse on her fathers side as it appears that she was born our of wedlock to an unknown father.
If you have any information you can share, I would be very interested.
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I am now trying to use dna matches to find Charlotte Johnston’s parents. One possible match to descendants of Philip Devine but more required to confirm.
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Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.
Wow! This sounds difficult. I have been using DNA too but not getting far. If I come accross anything I will let you know.
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dhowse...Just wondering why your post is on 'Australia Lookups completed' board?
Annie
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Did not know it was on the look up completed board.
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Hi,
Can you please check the 1862 marriage and post the given age on that document for Charlotte, and any other information that she provided to the clergy at that time ... what info did she provide about her parents to that clergyman?
JM
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Thanks
I have not seen the Charlotte Johnson 1849 one before, I think I'll get a transcription for that one and hope it contains some information.
Debbie
Charlotte Ann, parents as James Johnson and Maria Douglass, born 14 June 1849, baptised 15 August, 1849, Richmond NSW
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTC2-TR2
Likely this would be a C of E baptism, as the NSW BDM has it as Volume 34A, line 1778 (of 1849) and Volumes 1 to 40 are definitely C of E.
JM
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Death certificate gives her age as 56 and she died 1904. Eldest son is 40.
Marriage
The consent of Mrs Elizabeth Ann Devine her guardian was given to the marriage of Charlotte Johnstone with John Rabbit the said Charlotte Johnstone being under the age of 21.
Her address is Three Mile Creek, Ipswich
This is where the Devines are although they also have property out west.
Mary Johnstone and William Rabbit are the witnesses, William is John’s father and makes his mark. mary signs. charlotte makes her mark.
Presbyterian marriage.
I have one dna match to a descendant of Elizabeth’s husband Philip Devine.
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Thanks, I notice that the bride's actual age is not recorded on the document. Is it a certificate issued by Queensland BDM? and have you sought out the original parish register, perhaps the clergy in Qld were following the clergy in NSW and basically recording 'all' the information on the parish registers BUT NOT forwarding all the info to the civil Registrar General's office ...
In NSW from commencement of civil registration (in 1856) for several decades thereafter the bride's parents including nee name for mum and dad's occupation and the bride's age and place of birth, (and similar info for bridegroom) were recorded on the parish register BUT the Churches were concerned about the depth of detail being shared on civil registers (where people were not of the same denomination) so the clergy withheld some of the info they obtained from the bride and groom... (from the summary info they sent through to the Reg General).
As Qld was hived off from NSW in 1859, it is likely that the NSW BDM laws of 1856 would have transferred over too, but I am not sure.
JM
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It is a Qld marriage cert, Colony of Qld at the top. No parental information given for either parents even though we know John’s father was present.
I have not seen the original register.
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Queensland Times, Ipswich Herald and General Advertiser 8 Apr 1862
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/125596585?
On the 5th inst at Warrel-Creek by the Rev G M REED, Mr John RABBIT of M'Intyre-Brook, to Chatlotte the daughter of Mr Thomas JOHNSTONE of Franklyn Vale
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A huge thankyou!
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Queensland Times, Ipswich Herald and General Advertiser 8 Apr 1862
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/125596585?
On the 5th inst at Warrel-Creek by the Rev G M REED, Mr John RABBIT of M'Intyre-Brook, to Chatlotte the daughter of Mr Thomas JOHNSTONE of Franklyn Vale
Well found :)
JM
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From post #1
"... Charlotte uses the middle name Mary."
Where do you see Charlotte with second given name Mary?
" the birth of a child gives the place of birth as Brisbane the death certificate gives Sydney"
Can you list all the information on the birth certificate.
Can you list all the information on the death certificate.
The death certificate for Charlotte RABBITT, 1904, has two sons and one daughter deceased.
Have you identified these three children?
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Two of the deceased children are Mary Jane Rabbit 1880-1882 and Thomas Walter 1865-1867.
The other son not found.
Death
Charlotte Rabbit
Selector
Father. johnstone
Mar Ipswich Qld 16 years John Rabbit
Chn john 40 robert 28 annie 36 charlotte 33 harriet 31 william 28 walter 26 james 22 agnes 20 edward 17 lily 15
Rupture general asthema
Bur 30 oct Inglewood
Informant James Rabbit, son Brookefield near Inglewood