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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Lydart on Saturday 19 August 06 23:16 BST (UK)
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Right, lets start another topic, having exhausted the one about Nephew Franks car !!
This is another picture I found in Canada ... its a very tatty newspaper cutting, probably sent to relatives there from ones in London. My questions are:
1. does anyone know what sort of nuns these are ?
2. what convent might they have come from ? (It says its London)
3. can we assume its WW2 ?
Again, a bit of seemingly unimportant info from a RootsChatter might suddenly link me to info I already have ...
Here's hoping once again !
Lydart
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Hi Lydart :)
Don't know what sort of nuns they are (my knowledge is limited to the Flying kind, and the Sound of Music kind!!) but the Times digital archive has two articles from 1940 referring to convents being bombed.
The first is 8 Oct 1940, a convent and convalescent home on the coast of Kent was bombed. They were run by the Daughters of the Cross.
The second, more likely candidate, is from 5 Dec 1950 - the raid occured on the 3rd Dec, in London, and the convent was bombed when their cellar was being used as a public shelter. I will transcribe a bit of the article and post it here.
Prue
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Home News
LONDON CONVENT BOMBED
MANY TRAPPED IN CELLARS
...
Rescue parties worked throughout yesterday seeking survivors in the ruins of one wing of a convent in London which was wrecked by a bomb on Tuesday night. Between 80 and 90 people were trapped in the cellars, which were used as a public shelter, and though the majority were brought out alive, some were killed, including young children. One woman lost her father and husband.
NUNS' ESCAPE
Twelve nuns at prayer in the convent chapel escaped, although bombs fell within a few yards of them. The explosion flung a heavy door over their heads on to the altar steps and filled the chapel with debris and broken glass. The nuns gave valuable help in assisting to rescue the trapped people. A cinema near the convent was used as a first aid post.
Seven bombs fell in a line in the district.
The Times, Thursday 05 Dec 1940. pg. 2. Issue 48791. col A.
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Found another, smaller report of an earlier raid in London:
CONVENT DEMOLISHED
...A convent and the convent school...were demolished by bombs during the night, and one of eight sisters in the convent died while on her way to hospital. Several houses in the same district were destroyed.
The Times, Wednesday 30 Oct 1940. p2. Issue 48760. col E.
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There was also a convent which was hit by a V2 in March 1945. It was next to the Catholic church at Dockhead in Bermondsey, South London. three priests were killed and the building was destroyed.
Was it a policy for newspapers not to give precise details of locations?
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Would have thought it policy not to give precise locations of damage just in case it helped the enemy.
Seem to remember reading that when Coventry took a battering it was not named until much later.
This I believe is also why road signs were also removed.
Jean
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Well RootChatterers continue to amaze me !
Thanks, PrueM for the info from The Times. How do you access it ? Web-site ? It could be a very useful source for me for other things I want to find out about.
There is a convent near where I live, and I know the sisters there... I'll take my tatty scrap of paper to them, and see if they can identify the order. It would help me to know whereabouts in London these bombed nuns were, as it may have significance in my researches.
Like your web-site ... I've also got 'pioneer' relatives, but in Canada and not so exciting as yours ... reading about how they lived in covered waggons and 'soddy' houses is fascinating ... fancy giving birth in a waggon ! They were tough in those days !
Lydart
PS ... if anyone is interested, the back of my scrap of paper is below ...
Moderator comment: resized for easier viewing
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Hi Lydart,
Have sent you a PM re The Times ;)
Good luck with the nuns! Let us know what you find out.
Cheers
Prue
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More about the bombed nuns:
I was this week sorting out a load of my Mums stuff - she died in 2000, and its taken me a while to work through her 93 years of clobber ... she never threw anything away (a real find for family history research tho' ... except its like a muddle of several jig-saws, with many of the pieces missing, and you dont have the boxes with the pictures ...)
Anyway, back to the bombed nuns ... I was sorting thru' a box containing Mums collection of knitting patterns from the 1920's, 30', 40's 50's ... reading all the ads on the backs and amusing myself with bygone fashions and so on, and B I N G O there was an old, crumpled and crumbling newspaper cutting ... all about our nuns ! I've managed to read most of it, having had first to delicately iron it to straighten it out ... and it seems the nuns were Sisters of Mercy, based in Hammersmith or Fulham (can't decide which yet), and the bomb fell night of 3rd December, 1940. As someone said in this topic, the places bombed weren't named for fear of informing the enemy.
I'll get my scanner hooked up, and post some of it on this ... its fascinating reading. A child was saved from injury because she left the air-raid shelter to go and buy fish and chips .... The relavance to my family must be that the bomb fell on or near Peabody Buildings, Hammersmith/Fulham ... more info needed here !
Any ideas from you brilliant researchers as to how I can find out more exactly where this happened; the newspaper this was in (date at top but unfortunately name of newspaper was cut off). I suspect it was just a local Hammersmith/Fulham paper - someone had put an inky cross top and bottom of the cutting, so it must have had some family interest. The modern newspaper cuttings I've collected over the years have all been about my children, or close friends, not national events. The items on the back are of a local interest too, rather than national ... local football teams, etc. Oh, and the picture I found in Canada had come out of another newspaper, because the hole in the piece I've just found, doesn't fit the shape of the cutting in Canada !
This is what makes family history SO fascinating ... it puts the flesh on the bones of mere lists of names, BMD's and censuses.
Best wishes to all .... Lydart
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Lydart,
I recently contacted the Hammersmith & Fulham Local studies centre and they were v.helpful, found my newspaper cutting and posted me a copy! f.o.c. within 2 days. why don't you try asking them?
will see if I can find the link and name,
Newbie ;D
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Thanks Newbie,
That would be really useful and helpful. I go to London about once every 20 years (apart from Heathrow) ... nasty places ... that's London AND Heathrow !!
Don't think I'm likely to go again, this side of the grave !! :(
Lydart
PS The cutting is so old, creased, foxed, stained and torn, that I think it'll be easier just to retype what it says ... I'm a faster typist than I am fiddling with OCR, improving pictures, etc.
Reading the back of the paper, and with regard to keeping info from the enemy, there are such a lot of refs to local events, places, addresses, that 'the enemy' could easily have worked out where the bombs fell ...
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This is a bit general but might help with the background to the raid: In "The Blitz, then and now , vol2 , W.Ramsey1986" they give the Civil defence reports for each night. This is condensed from Tues. Dec 3/4 1940 :Sunset1652 , sunrise0848 Moon:dusk-2130 1st Qtr-3.
Heavy attack on Birmingham with a secondary attack on London.Minelaying off Harwich and in the Thames estuary.
UK-cloudy with v. low cloud in the midlands & Sthn. England in occaisional rain and drizzle, cloud lifting and decreasing from the west after midnight....
The harassing attack was made on London in 2 phases-from 1825-2200, then from 0024-0628hrs.The attackers dropped 21 tonnes of HE and 1872 IBs and reported large fires and explosions in the areas encompassing the City, Westminster and Whitehall and adjacent districts along the Thames.
An air raid shelter at Hammersmith received a direct hit but no important industrial plant or factories damaged. bombs also fell in Kensington, Fulham...
Fred
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Hi again, I'm sure they will help and provide the information you need here is the address I used
give as much information as you can and what I did was to ask for the information I was looking for, the archivist was really helpful.
archives@lbhf.gov.uk
good luck!
my husband comes from Fulham..... I was there the other day, it's changed so much...
Newbie ;D
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Thanks for that Newbie
I'll gather what I want to know into a few sentences, and try them out.
If your husband was from Fulham, does he know anything about Peabody Buildings/Cottages ? My mother was a court dressmaker and lived with her parents until her marriage in 1941 in Peabody Cottages ... she 'took in' alterations and so on in order to make a bit extra, and I found her 'card' the other day, giving her address as Peabody Cottages.
Were they cottages, in the sense of country cottages, i.e. were they old and built around with new buildings, swallowed up in the London sprawl ? Or was it just a euphemism for early 20th C. housing ??
Oh, so many questions we never asked our relatives before they died ... :'(
Lydart
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Hi Lydart
Have you shown the photo to your local nuns yet, because I didn't think the Sisters of Mercy wore the kind of headgear shown in the paper. There's some pictures at this very long web address:
http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=nuns+%22sisters+of+mercy
%22&hl=en&lr=lang_en&sa=N&tab=wi&sourceid=tipimg
Monica
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Thanks, Stockman, for your report, and thanks Shropshire Lass, for your suggestion ... I'll be seeing the local nuns later this week, so will take the picture with me.
I'm going to try attaching the newpaper report which a friend has scanned in ... she says its 328 KB so thats within the limits ... don't know how it will look or if it will be readable, but if I dont try, I'll never know ...
Here goes .... fingers crossed ... :-\
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Well, what do you know !
It worked !!
Lydart ;D ;D ;D
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What an amazing article! I'm surprised at the detail given - although no places are identified by name. How resilient the people were. My Grandparents and family were in London throughout the war. We are so lucky not to have had those experiences.
The nuns are named as Sisters of Mercy so maybe there are different orders by that name who had different habits (as in dresses, not the other sort!)
There's a cross at the start and finish of the report about the hospital so do you think that could be the relevant bit for your ancestor? Maybe someone worked at the hospital or had recently been a patient?
Good luck with your hunt,
Monica
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Thanks for that Shropshire Lass !
Its just occurred to me, that perhaps that was the bomb, the blast of which that split my mothers ear-drum, and left her deaf in one ear for the rest of her life ? She was living with her parents in Peabody Cottages at the time (cottages mentioned at the end of the article where someone - I suspect Grandfather - has indicated with black inky X's). I still have two or three bits of the shrapnel from that bomb and also a nose-cone (?) thing ... I said earlier she never threw ANYTHING away in 93 years !!! But her hoarding is proving to be so interesting ...
What amused /astonished me about the article, was the bit about the child who had left the shelter to go and get fish and chips, and her only comment, despite having been out on the streets during bombing, and loosing a parent, is recorded as 'I am a lucky girl' ... (she could even conceiveably read this !)
Question ... does anyone have any maps of that area of Hammersmith/Fulham at that time, or can anyone point me to a web-site where I might find Peabody Cottages ??
Grandfather was a postman; Granny worked in a Lyons Corner House ... remember those ... so neither worked in a hospital.
Lydart
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The paper says the cottages were opposite the hospital entrance and on the edge of an adjoining borough, which might help pinpoint them.
I've had a look on Gt Uncle's prewar street map (I think it's the one his Bomb disp. people used to locate incidents) and I can see 3or4 hospitals.
The queen Charlottes and Freemasons hospitals are together at the W end of Hammersmith off Goldhawk Rd.
The W London is in the centre of Hammersmith off Hammsmth Rd.
The Fever Hosp. is down in Seagrave Rd near Chelsea football ground in Fulham.
There could be others but your eyes go crossed if you look at the tiny writing too long. :) ::)
They might provide a start, though
Fred
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Just a couple of extra points- On Uncle's map, the convent is shown on the S side of Hammersmith road, just west of Colet St and St Paul' school.
From "the London Rich" by Peter Thorold: "The money...(For some other workers' housing in London) was provided by a trust set up by American businessman George Peabody, a leading figure in the City of London, the project one version only of a number of purpose-built Peabody Estates distributed around London." The development mentioned (not the one we want!)was located in Great Wild St. and built in the 1870s
Fred.
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Lydart, sorry, have had visitors this weekend, husband says he remembers a Peabody Road, but it's hrrmmm, +25 yrs (and a bit more!) since he lived in Fulham.
Re old maps, there are several links on this site for old maps. but again the local studies centre should be able to help you with that.
good luck,
newbie
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found one link on here -
http://www.yourbooksonline.co.uk/
newbie
there is one member who specialises in old maps, - "Hackstaple"
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Lydart,
there is a link on the "useful links " board for maps
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,289.0.html
newbie
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Have you tried a search for Peabody Cottages Hammersmith. There are a few sites. It seems there was a Peabody Estate just off Fulham Palace Road. If you look at a modern map , multimap or streetmap and search for Chancellors Road Hammersmith. Just above it is a place called The Square. This is where the Peabody estate was.
The convent on Hammersmith Road is still shown on Streetmap/multimap. Type in Colet gardens and you will see it. Must have been rebuilt.
Sylviaann
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sylviaann wrote It seems there was a Peabody Estate just off Fulham Palace Road.
Hi, it's interesting to compare the modern A-Z with uncle's map- Peabody estate is shown in 2001 but not 1930s although it must have been there then.
There are lots of changes around the convent area, I suppose thanks to the Hammersmith flyover.
The modern Charing Cross Hospital in Fulham Palace Rd.is shown on the old map as "Fulham Institute"
The pre war fever hospital is now roughly where Brompton Park is today while the Charlotte's and Freemasons Hospitals of the 30s are now shown as a white blank between Ravenscourt Sq and Goldhawk Rd.
Fred (wish I could scan it in!)
ps I've just read that the modern Charing Cross hosp was opened in 1957 on the site of the old Fulham Hospital- as that's only a few yards from Peabody Estate, that must surely be the place the bomb fell.
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Thank you SO MUCH for the info you have provided; I have Multi-mapped and then Google Earthed, and have an image now of where my mother lived before her marriage ... and a rough idea of where that bomb landed (I suspect more than one if you look on a map at the area covered in the article).
(Am I allowed to put on a Google Earth image ? Moderator, remove if necessary !!)
But here it is, the cottages right in the centre of the image. I'm already planning a trip to London ... maybe later this year, and I'll see if I can get some modern photos of where she lived until 1941.
Isn't it strange how one query leads onto something quite different !
Lydart
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I'll see if this works- the res has to be a bit low but it's the right area. My next job is dating the map!
Fred
not so clear I'm afraid but the convent is vis next to St Paul's school, the hosp is the dotted building right of the "M" in Fulham and the Estate is left of the "L" in Fulham.
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Thanks Stockman ... but as you say, the resolution is a bit low. I found a better one on Multimap.
Apropos of nothing much, I saw on the Multi-map I found, Hammersmith cemetery ... my Granny taught me to read there on afternoon walks after I had had a long illness ... I learned to read from 'Here lies Mary Jane' and 'In memory of ...'
Been addicted to graveyards and headstones ever since ... but why, oh why, cant I seem to locate any of relevance to our family ?!
:( Lydart
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Hi,
Coming in late on this so you may have the info you want already. The Convent bombed was the Convent of Mercy, and the Church next door, Most Holy Trinity (my G Grandparents were married there), Parkers Row, Dockhead, Bermondsey. See http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:5S4ZOIX4n6EJ:www.inse1.co.uk/issues/inSE1-81.pdf+convent+of+mercy+dockhead&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=8 scroll down to Church Services.
Hope this helps :)
Hugs,
Cindy xx