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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Acorn on Tuesday 02 November 04 11:46 GMT (UK)

Title: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: Acorn on Tuesday 02 November 04 11:46 GMT (UK)
I am trying to find information on my grand father Patrick Brophy who I think was born in Ireland possibly Dublin around 1875. He eventually moved to Liverpool then on to Manchester and I think he died around 1955, beleived to be burried at southern cemetery.

Any information on him or his parents would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: sarah on Friday 05 November 04 23:44 GMT (UK)
Hello Acorn,

You should be able to find Patrick on the 1881 Census!

Have you found him already or which country do you expect to find him?

Regards

Sarah :)
Title: Re: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: Acorn on Saturday 06 November 04 10:31 GMT (UK)
Hello Sarah,
                    I suspect that he was still in Irelend in 1881, the problem is we do not know when he was born, 1875 is a guess. I was hoping to be able to find his date of birth so that I could find his parents names etc.

If you think he may be on the 1881 census, would that cover the Dublin area, and if so how would I access this information.

I've seen websites like ancestry.com but they all request you to subscribe for a fee. I imagine there is no guarantee to be able to find the information you require, and it could turn out to be a very expensive waste of time.

Any advice is appreciated.

Regards
John :)
Title: Re: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: munchies on Sunday 07 November 04 01:10 GMT (UK)
These are all the Patrick Brophy listed in 1871 in Lancashire

 Patrick Brophy 49  Ireland Head  Eccleston  Lancashire   
 Patrick Brophy 14  Liverpool, Lancashire, England Son  Eccleston  Lancashire   
 Patrick Brophy 33  Ireland Head  Liverpool  Lancashire   
 Patrick Brophy 28  Cavan, Ireland Head  Liverpool  Lancashire   
 Patrick Brophy 14  Ireland Head  Manchester  Lancashire   
 Patrick Brophy 33  Ireland Head  Salford  Lancashire   
 
 
  these are all Patrick Brophy from ireland in 1881

 1. Patrick BROPHY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Boarder   Gender: Male   Birth: <1850> Ireland
 
 2. Patrick BROPHY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Son   Gender: Male   Birth: <1856> Ireland
 
 3. Patrick BROPHY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Patient   Gender: Male   Birth: <1821> Ireland
 
 4. Patrick BROPHEY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Head   Gender: Male   Birth: <1831> Ireland
 
 5. Patrick BROPHEY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Lodger (Head)   Gender: Male   Birth: <1842> Ireland
 
 6. Patrick BROPHY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Head   Gender: Male   Birth: <1825> Dublin, Ireland
 
 and these are all the patricks born 1875 +/- 20 years

records to download - (50 maximum)
 1. Patrick BROPHY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Son   Gender: Male   Birth: <1856> Ireland
 
 2. Patrick BROPHY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Son   Gender: Male   Birth: <1873> Liverpool, Lancashire, England
 
 3. Patrick BROPHY - 1881 British Census / Lancashire
Son   Gender: Male   Birth: <1880> St Helens, Lancashire, England
 
 
These are all the Patrick Brophy listed in 1891

 
 Brophy, Patrick 18 Liverpool, Lancashire Son  Liverpool  Lancashire   
 Brophy, Patrick 64 IRL Boarder  Liverpool  Lancashire   
 Brophy, Patrick 68 IRL Inmate  Newton  Lancashire   
 
 
  These are all the Patrick Brophy' listed for 1901 in lancashire if you think any of these look likely give me a shout and i will post more details
 
 Patrick Brophy 6  Queens county, Ireland Nephew  Birkdale  Lancashire   
 Patrick Brophy 22  Ireland Head  Bolton  Lancashire   
 Patrick Brophy 54  Tipperary, Ireland Head  Liverpool St Martin  Lancashire   
 Patrick Brophy 20  St Helens, Lancashire, England Son  St Helen  Lancashire   
 


Donna


 
 
Title: Re: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: munchies on Sunday 07 November 04 01:35 GMT (UK)
This is the most likely one based on age although he wasn't actually born in Ireland  but his father was. See what you think in 1881

 Name  Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
 Joseph BROPHY   Head   M   Male   38   Ireland   Blackash Furnace Man (Manf Ch)     
 Elizabeth BROPHY   Wife   M   Female   37   Ireland       
 William BROPHY   Son      Male   15   Liverpool, Lancashire, England   Shop Messenger     
 Emily A. BROPHY   Daur      Female   12   Liverpool, Lancashire, England   Scholar     
 Ellen BROPHY   Daur      Female   10   Flint, Flint, Wales   Scholar     
 Patrick BROPHY   Son      Male   8   Liverpool, Lancashire, England   Scholar     
 Joseph BROPHY   Son      Male   4   Liverpool, Lancashire, England       


~~~~~~~~
Source Information:
  Dwelling   7 Calvin St
  Census Place Liverpool, Lancashire, England
  Family History Library Film   1341862
  Public Records Office Reference   RG11
  Piece / Folio   3600 / 75
  Page Number   8

1891

3 Calvin St, Liverpool. RG12/2903, Folio 85, Page 33.

Brophy, Elizabeth 53 IRL Wife  Liverpool  Lancashire   
 Brophy, Emma 21 Liverpool, Lancashire Daughter  Liverpool  Lancashire   
 Brophy, Joseph 54 IRL Head  Liverpool  Lancashire   
 Brophy, Joseph 14 Liverpool, Lancashire Son  Liverpool  Lancashire   
 Brophy, Patrick 18 Liverpool, Lancashire Son  Liverpool  Lancashire   

Address is 3 Calvin Street and occupation is ships fireman

Donna
Title: Re: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: Acorn on Sunday 07 November 04 11:00 GMT (UK)
Thank you very much for going to all that trouble, I am still unable to narrow it down but may be if I give you more information it might help.

Please remember I am not certain about anything as some of it may just be stories handed down.

As far as I know Patrick Brophy was born in Ireland probably Dublin as I believe he spent the early part of his life there. I am guessing that he didn't come over to Liverpool until sometime in the 1900's. At some point he got married and had children, this could have been in Ireland or in England. One of his sons was called Robert and as he spoke with an Irish accent, which leads me to assume that Patricks marriage took place in Ireland where he would have raised his family. Patrick and his wife became separated, as far as I know he was a catholic so I don't know if divorce would have been possible, as the catholic church do not recognize it. Once he was over here he eventually met up with Annie or Ann Gilcrist they together had a son in 1925 called James Brophy, James was my father.
I was told by my father years ago that my great granddad, thats Patricks dad was the chief of the Dublin metropolitan police and he was also a very skilled coach painter, specializing in heraldic painting. How much of that is true I just don't know.
I am hoping to visit southern cemetery later today to try and find some clues about Patrick. I may have to make several weekend trips as I believe its a very large cemetery.

Regards
John.
Title: Re: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: Acorn on Monday 08 November 04 10:56 GMT (UK)
Went to southern cemetery yesterday for a couple of hours but the cemetery is so huge I only managed to checkout a small fraction of the total number of graves. So far no luck finding any Brophy's there, it may take numerous trips.

In the mean time if anyone has access to information which may help my quest please let me know.

Regards
John.
Title: Re: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: munchies on Tuesday 09 November 04 23:35 GMT (UK)
I am not sure i would rely on him having spoken with an Irish accent to prove he was born in Ireland if a lot of Irish families lived together then they would probably have children born here but picking up an irish accent from family and neighbours.

My son had a very definite scouse accent at age 6 but had only been to Liverpool twice   ::)

Just my opinion though

Donna
Title: Re: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: sarah on Wednesday 10 November 04 20:58 GMT (UK)
Hi John,

There is a posting under "Lancashire" about our plans to try and transcribe Southern Cemetery.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=10277.0

The Manchester and Lancashire Family History Society also have an Irish Ancestry Branch. Here are there contact details

Mr J Conway
Irish Ancestry
c/o MLFHS
Clayton House
59 Piccadilly
Manchester
M1 2AQ

0161 236 9750

Sarah
Title: Re: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: anne elizabeth on Friday 09 September 05 16:37 BST (UK)
Thank you very much for going to all that trouble, I am still unable to narrow it down but may be if I give you more information it might help.

Please remember I am not certain about anything as some of it may just be stories handed down.

As far as I know Patrick Brophy was born in Ireland probably Dublin as I believe he spent the early part of his life there. I am guessing that he didn't come over to Liverpool until sometime in the 1900's. At some point he got married and had children, this could have been in Ireland or in England. One of his sons was called Robert and as he spoke with an Irish accent, which leads me to assume that Patricks marriage took place in Ireland where he would have raised his family. Patrick and his wife became separated, as far as I know he was a catholic so I don't know if divorce would have been possible, as the catholic church do not recognize it. Once he was over here he eventually met up with Annie or Ann Gilcrist they together had a son in 1925 called James Brophy, James was my father.
I was told by my father years ago that my great granddad, thats Patricks dad was the chief of the Dublin metropolitan police and he was also a very skilled coach painter, specializing in heraldic painting. How much of that is true I just don't know.
I am hoping to visit southern cemetery later today to try and find some clues about Patrick. I may have to make several weekend trips as I believe its a very large cemetery.

Regards
John.
Title: Re: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: anne elizabeth on Friday 09 September 05 16:42 BST (UK)
Hi I hope I'm doing this right, new girl :-\
Widowhood is the most likely cause of a second marriage, divorce would have bee well nigh impossible.
from another  Manchester Brophy probably no relation
Title: Re: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: Christopher on Sunday 30 April 06 01:18 BST (UK)
Hiya Acorn, Sarah and everyone on this thread,

I collected a copy of Jim Herlihy's book "The Dublin Metropolitan Police. A Complete Alphabetical List of Officers and Men 1836-1925" from my local library this afternoon. There were 14 Brophys in the Dublin Metropolitan Police. Only one Patrick Brophy though. He was born in 1841 at Stradbally, Queen's County and his DMP number was 6796

All the Best, Chris
Title: Re: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: Acorn on Thursday 19 October 06 02:35 BST (UK)
Sorry its been a while since I last visited the site, thank you for all your help and advice so far.

Ann you could well be a distant relation.

Christopher, that book sounds interesting, it might give me some leads, I will try and order a copy from the local library.

I have found some more details about Patrick Brophy, he had the middle name of Joseph. I managed to get some details from the manchester councils website. He must have been born in 1877 as he was buried in southern cemetery in 1952 age 75.

I now need to find out what I can about him hopefully if I can find him on a census or track down a birth certificate it will lead me to my great grandad, the dublin police man.

If I find anything out I will post on here, and if anyone has any other useful tips it appreciated.
Title: Re: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: Acorn on Thursday 19 October 06 21:31 BST (UK)
Christopher you may be able to give me a clue as to who my great grandfather was, with that book. I have worked out that my grandfather Patrick joseph brophy was born 1877, his father my great grandfather was in the Dublin police. I do not know what my great grandfather was called but I have a bit more information which I obtained from www.familysearch.org which may narrow it down to two possibilities.

According to my research there were two patrick brophy's born in Ireland in 1877. The father of one was called John and the other father was called william. I have there wives names as well if it helps. If I my findings are correct one of these men was a high ranking policeman in the Dublin police. The only other information that I can give you, is that he was a very large chap over 6 foot who required help from other officers to get him up into the police carrage, due to him being quite over weight. If he went to sort out a pub brawl he would just bang the heads together of those fighting. This could all just be legend I dont know, but may be your book may give some clue as to his identity.
Title: Re: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 21 October 06 13:18 BST (UK)
This message has been re-posted as a new request today (21st Oct)  See link below to prevent duplication of work already done

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=191180.0;num_replies=2
Title: Re: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: Christopher on Thursday 02 November 06 02:17 GMT (UK)
Hiya Acorn,

John Brophy, DMP 6346, born 1838, Castletown, Queen's County
William Brophy, DMP 2569, born 1815, Ossory, Queen's County
William Brophy, DMP 2669, born 1815, Ossory, Queen's County
William Brophy, DMP 5165, born 1835, Aghaboe, Queen's County

Chris
Title: Re: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: andreajs on Thursday 02 November 06 07:34 GMT (UK)
Hi
If you go onto the Manchester Burial records site there is a Patrick Joseph Brophy buried in Manchester Southern Cemetery in 1952.
Unfortunately to see his plot number and what age he was and who he is buried with costs £4.
A word of advice if you do this is to save the image somewhere as to see it again you have to pay again!
Hope this helps
Andrea
Title: Re: Trying to trace Brophy family tree.
Post by: AJ Brophy_Santos on Friday 27 March 09 08:52 GMT (UK)
[/font]I don't know if we are related or something, I'm actually quite new here. But I was told that my great-grandfather - Harry Brophy - parents came from Ireland. They migrated in Missouri, United States probably back in 1940's. I don't know but brophy's surname is quite rare. I'm just curious about my family's history. ;)