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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: Lilster on Tuesday 15 August 06 09:48 BST (UK)
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I am searching for a Mark BROOKER, sent to Australia (Tasmania) for the theft of material. I have the Old Bailey transcript and know he was born around 1807 (specific place unknown). What sources exist to be searched before this time period?
Any ideas on what I should check?
Thanks
Lilster
:)
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Hello there Lister
i have the tasmanian indexs up to 1899 there is
a Mark Brooker on there he has married in 1837 to Matilda Simmonds but there isnt a death for him to see if his parents are listed
do you have his parents
regards jenn
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http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=P&id=42376
hello there try this link to the tasmanian archives
he was transported in 1826
might very well be your chap
regards jenn
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Lilster, I am sure you will know that many of us R chatters do love a convict history and how proudly we claim one in our background.
I, for one, hope you will keep us informed of your findings about Mark Brooker.
Sue
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Mark Brooker was indicted for stealing 35 yards of material- he was 'sprung' when he tried to pawn it saying that there was 5-6 yards of material there (you'd think he would have taken the time to check!) Oddly enough, two of my direct relatives sold material for a living! I know that Mark Brooker came to Australia from Portsmouth on the Earl St Vincent (departure- April 1826, arrival- 1826). He was only 18 years old when tried at the old bailey. I have a suspicion that his father's name may have been David (Mark's son's name also). Are there only parish records pre1825 to establish family roots?
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Thanks Jenn, that link was great! His son, David Brooker added Morgan to his name (Morgan was the guy he worked for) and he became David Morgan Brooker (he became a politician- an early mayor in Brunswick, Victoria). His father was a criminal and he a politician- and this is my family line?!!
Lea
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Hello there Glad it was of help
one line of my ancestors where ministers and some of their children became politicians too! ;D
regards jenn
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Hi Lilster :)
I have two convicts in my family, both sent to NSW (one in 1817 and the other in 1820). Do you have the standard convict paperwork for your man? By that I mean the ship indent (listing all the convicts and their native places, trial dates, trades etc.), ticket of leave, certificate of freedom etc.
Prue
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Hi Lilster
The folks from Tas used to love to deny their convict origins - probably why the son added a little "class" to his name. My convict family created a complete genealogy chart to remove all mention of crime and punishment from their ancestry ;D ;D
Thus said, anyone that was in Tasmania pre 1830 had a good chance of being a convict. Many of them (or their children) became well known and respected citizens. I like the thought that some of them did get a chance "for a better life". They suffered such incredible hardship coming here - I think they deserved it.
The Tasmanian archives may have more information on your man. Jenn has already given you the link to the family data base.
http://www.archives.tas.gov.au/
If you check the Tasmanian links at the top of the Australian board, you may find more places to search.
Trish
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Hi Trish, Jenn and Sue
Most of the info I have came from the Tassie archives website. All the info I have I listed above. Do you know where I can sight a copy of his ticket of leave or certificate of freedom? The notes I have taken on his ship and voyage came from a variety of sources. The ship indent sounds like it would greatly help!
Lea
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Hi Lea,
I'm not sure where you would get the convict papers from as I've not had to do it for Tasmania, but my bet would be that any info would be in the Tas Archives, so have a look at their website and see what is in their catalogue. I'm sure they have an enquiry email/phone number as well that you could use if you want.
Hope that helps :)
Prue
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Actually, here is a page showing examples of what the Tas Archives have for convicts...
http://www.archives.tas.gov.au/generic/convict_examples
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The Tas convict index says the following
Copies of the convict's records can be obtained by personally visiting our public search room ($1.10 per page). We can also supply copies at our standard research charges. They can be requested by writing to us or by email quoting the relevant details from the index; your postal address should also be included so that the copies can be posted to you
I was at the archives a couple of years ago & I think all the data for each convict is grouped togther & probably on microfiche (I can't believe my disappearing memory!)
You should be able to email them for a quote for your man - which should indicate how much data exists.
There are some possible marriages for some of the children on the AVRI. Are you interested in this information? I am surprised there is no death record for Mark & Matilda civil reg started in Tasmania very early - they may have gone to Victoria & died after 1888 - I will check.
Trish
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Hi all,
Thanks for all of that. Have just invested some time into searching some of the links listed in the Tasmanian section of Rootschat. I am guessing Mark was out of Tasmania when he passed on- it had to be 1850 or later,as his last child was listed as born 1850. Will contact Tassie archives through email and see what comes of it.
Keep on smiling
Lea
;D
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Hi Lea
I answered your message - and should have added - be wary if you think about buying the AVRI on places like ebay - they charge many times more than the cost sold by the LDS. What you need is a nice relative in UK or US to buy it. ;D ;D It costs $US9 and about 7 pounds in the UK. The LDS cannot sell it in Australia nor post it to an Australian address.
These were the possible Tas marriages
Amelia Brooker m William Swan both listed with age A (Adult) 15 Mar 1870 Year 1870 Ref 351
David Morgan Brooker Aged 30 married Mary Ann Daly Aged 24 on 01 Oct 1880 Year 1880 Ref 740
George Brooker aged 25 married Eliza Mary Crosswell aged 16 on 19 Dec 1867 year 867 Ref 506
Matilda Brooker aged 20 married William Kingshot aged 23 on 19 Oct 1863 year 1863 ref 597
The ages seem about right. It seems strange that the children married in Tas yet there is no sign of the parents death. I wonder if they changed their name? Given the age of Mark, it seems unlikely he died after 1899 (end of early Tas records) but I can't find a death for him or his wife. Shall check a few more spelling variations.
Trish
Despite the early start of Tas registration, I have found, with my own family, quite a few missing registrations from the earlier years.
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Hi Lea
You will have probably noticed on the Tas Archives website that Mr Brooker who had arrived on "Earl St Vincent" left Launceston on "Peri" 5 Jan 1850 bound for Adelaide.
So perhaps he died in South Australia.
Regards
Genni
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Hello there
I did purchase from the tassie archives a copy of the census that was there cost me $22.00
fairly prompt ordered online if my memeory is holding up
regards jenn
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Hi Trish- thanks for the info!
Hi Genni - I hadn't noticed- thanks muchly! I always assumed they must have travelled to Victoria with David.
Hi Jenn- I have asked for an estimate on how much it will cost my hubby- I mean me, for all of the info I need relating to Mark.
All of your efforts on my behalf is ever appreciated ;D ;D ;D
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hello again
here his is arriving in adelaide in 1850
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1850Peri.htm
checked the indexs for sa no death there
curiouser and curiouser ::)
but he either dissapeared or ?
but what about the wife he has left her back in tassie along with the little bookers it is quite possible the both lived into their 90"s tas indexs go to 1899
regards jenn
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hi Jenn,
thanks for the page. I have been checking out some of the other states links to try to find where he and his wife died. Nothing so far. It is rather strange that his wife 'disappeared' (should we be suspicious that he flees the state?!) The name 'Broker' was used for two of the children - perhaps she took on a different name? I have also found that someone has posted a Mark Brooker (with a spouse of Charlotte Davis) on a board as Mark and Matilda's son. He is not on the Tas Archives info and he is supposedly born when my relo David Brooker was born. Twins - or a scandal? (or someone just making up info?)
Regards,
Lea
:o
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Hello there
with you comment on the name being broker
I wouldn't read anything into that as it wll no doubt be either a transcription error or when the details "were took down the person couldnt read or write proper and didnt no how ta spell proper"
Most of these poor souls were uneducated and even the person doing the writing may not have understood what they were saying with all the different dialects in england back then that were transported in oz
regards jenn
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Hello there
I have found an interesting death in victoria in 1872 /382
aged 19 Louisa Brooker parents mark and matilda
now she is not on the tassie indexs!
by 1881 david morgan is in melbourne pumping out offspring? he died in 1921 aged 73
regards jenn
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Hello there
Just might have solved one peice of the puzzle or it is a very big coincidence
death for
Martha Matilda MORGAN father John Simmonds aged60?
died 1881/3392 at Ballarat E
also found of interest perhaps?
caroline born to chris edward morgan and matilda simmonds in 1859 skipton
frederick born to edward morgan and matilda brooker in 1861ballarat
you said the name of the bloke who sent your mark brooker away was morgan ?
hope this might help not meant to confuse
regards jenn
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Hi Jenn,
That is fabulous- you see, his son David took on the name Morgan- this could be why!
This lot of information is invaluable- Thanks (can I say it enough?)
Regards,
Lea
:D
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Hello there Lea
thats no problems atall glad to help even if it is a bit confusing
regards jenn
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http://www.philcleary.com.au/history_daly_michael_galtees.htm
hello there Lea
i dont know whther you have seen this page at all but it refers to David Morgan born Brooker it is all about his wifes family very very usefull and he gets mention too
regrds jenn
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thanks Jenn
I have seen this page
Mary Ann Daly was my great great granny. I guess my great great grandpa got away from the Brooker name altogether when he took on Morgan and dropped off the Brooker!
Lea
8)
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Hi all,
Once I get Mark's parents names, are there only the parish records in England to be checked before 1825?
Regards,
Lea
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http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=ancestorsearchresults.asp
this is a link to the LDS family search program
there are a couple of mark brookers there that will fit your age group
regards jenn
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Hello there
I have found an interesting death in victoria in 1872 /382
aged 19 Louisa Brooker parents mark and matilda
Hi All
The above Louisa is probably the following:-
Louisa Eglinton born Collingwood 1852 Reg: 11215 Parents: James & Matilda
Had a brother
James Benjamin Eglinton born Ballarat 1856 Reg: 12347 Parents: James Benjamin Eglington & Matilda Brooker
Now Matilda EGLINTON married Christopher MORGAN 1857 Reg: 1047
And they produced the following Children:-
Edward born Ball 1858 Reg: 1977 (parents: Edward & Matilda Eglinton)
Caroline born Skipton 1859 Reg: 13488 (parents: Christopher Edwd & Matilda Simmonds)
Emma born Ball 1861 Reg: 13561 (parents: Christopher Edwd & Matilda Eglinton)
Frederick born Ball 1863 Reg: 5914 (parents: Edward & Matilda Brooker)
Cheers
Genni
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hello there
interesting gennie I notice these also and wondered about them do you think it possible that the matilda was using two names eglington and brooker?
but the death lists mark broker and matilda simmonds as her parents! it is all very intriguing and only suppostion on my part re the death of martha matilda morgan by her death age she would have been 16 when she married in tasse in 1837
I guess lea may very well have to purchase the marriage details to reveal ages etc
regards jenn
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Hi
Can tell you Mrs Broker (note spelling) with 3 children left Launceston on "William" 19 Dec 1851 bound for Melbourne. On the same ship was Benjamin Eglington (arrived free on Swift). It also says Matilda arrived in the Colony Free on "Amelia Thompson" Another Benjamin Eglinton (convict arrived "Lord Auckland") left Launceston 22 Jun 1851 bound for Sydney.
There was also a Mark Broker (seaman) who departed 26 Jan 1851 "Lawsons" bound for Calcutta via Swan River. It also said he arrived in the Colony on "Lawsons".
So had Mark become a seaman?
Genni
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Hi all,
It seems that the mystery just seems to grow as the info does! I have been in contact with the Tas gov for the convict info and I will let you know what comes of it..
Regards,
Lea
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hi Jenn,
thanks for the page. I have been checking out some of the other states links to try to find where he and his wife died. Nothing so far. It is rather strange that his wife 'disappeared' (should we be suspicious that he flees the state?!) The name 'Broker' was used for two of the children - perhaps she took on a different name? I have also found that someone has posted a Mark Brooker (with a spouse of Charlotte Davis) on a board as Mark and Matilda's son. He is not on the Tas Archives info and he is supposedly born when my relo David Brooker was born. Twins - or a scandal? (or someone just making up info?)
Regards,
Lea
:o
hello there Lea
There is a marriage in tas for Mark Brooker aged 28 To Chalotte Davis in 1873 aged 18
they have a son william mark the following year
he is not listed in the tasmanian indes but he just may not have been registered that did happen his birth would be c1845 which would "fill in" the gap between amelia in 44 and david in 48
also wonder if the daughter listed as lavina might very well be matilda who married william kingshot
be cause there is no birth for her!!
regards jenn
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Hello there Lea
adding a bit more of the family for you
children to George Brooker and Eliza Mary Croswell/Crosswell
in tasmania
Frederick George 1/12/1870/1178 born new norfolk
died benalla victoria 1950/16309 aged 79
name not recorded but I find by the death dates etc that
this might be
Elijah Henry 28/2/1869/1024 born new norfolk
died 1953/1766 Pville victoria aged 83
Maria 5/3/1876/1141 born new norfolk
died Maria Freitag at benalla aged 80 in 1956
Tom 21/7/1873/1166 born new nor folk
died 1951/773 Heid victoria aged 81
in victoria
William born 1878/13599 Benalla
death for William aged 75 in 1953 /20123
Eliza born 1881/7222 in Bena
Mary Ann born 1882/2125 Bena
died mary ann Whtye in Wang 1961 aged 77
Joseph born 1888/26815 Benalla
died aged 71 in 1961/19277 at Wang
regards jenn
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Thanks Jenn,
Every bit of info makes the tree look that much better! I am currently awaiting the info from the Tas gov website- I wish it would hurry, I am itching to see where Mark originally hailed from!
Regards,
Lea
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Hi,
Mark Brooker is one of our Relatives! Myself and a cousin have done much work, would be interested in hearing from you.
Fran ;D
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Hi Lilster,
I have viewed your entry regarding Mark Brooker and family from 2006.
I, also, am descended from this couple, and would be interested in hearing from you about research you have done.
Regards,,
Chris (*)
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Hi Nugent & Chris
Lea hasn't been online, according to her profile, since last November.
If you don't hear from her (she may have notification turned off), Nugent you could PM her, but Chris you will need to make another two posts before you can use the Pm method.\
And you should remove your hotmail address from the post - if you don't then the moderator probably will.
Welcome to Rootschat Chris, and hope you enjoy the forums as much as most of us do!
Dawn M
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MARK BROOKER born 19 April 1808 is my 5x great grandfather. He was born in
Worthing, Sussex, England. I can not locate his death anywhere. He died between 1851 & 1857 as I have a copy of the 1851 census he filled out but he is not located on the next census of 1857.
In 1825 he is found guilty of stealing a roll of silk & sentenced to death but given mercy due to his good character & instead sentenced to life. He arrived in Hobart in August 1826 on the Earl St Vincent & sent to work for a Mrs Cox as a coachman.
In 1836 he is granted permission to marry Matilda Martha Simmons (free person). They have 7 children.
In Feb 1847 he is given a conditional pardon. Never to return to or be found in Great Britain or Ireland.
In 1848 Matilda, Mark's wife leaves him (he places an advert in the paper saying she has left him & any debts). I have attached a clipping of the advertisment.
Matilda Martha Morgan nee Simmons dies 1 June 1881 in Ballarat Victoria.
For the life of me I can not find any information on when and where Mark Brooker died. ???
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Hi,
We have something in common "Mark Brooker"!Regarding census: 1851 Census Residence Weillington St, Launceston
With 12 others who seem to be his whole Family and another Adult married couple and children. Mark Brooker was head of the house. I have found this also;1851 Departure Launceston to Calcutta via Swan River (Swan River Colony i.e. Western Australia) It is unclear if this is Mark Brooker senior or his son, William Mark Brooker AKA Mark!
So where in our tree do you fit in? I am from Lavinia, Lousia who married a Curran.
Cheers,
Hope to hear from you soon.
Fran :D
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Hi,
My family travels through Matilda Martha Brooker the eldest daughter who marries John Nichols. Lets say the name Matilda Martha travels for at least 3 generations.
I have newspaper clippings of a Mark Brooker travelling to & from Adelaide in early 1850 on the ship Peri. Don't know anything about the trip to Calcutta. Not sure where the money comes from for all this travel as Mark is declared insovent in 1849.
I've come up against a brick wall when it comes to his death, & so it seems does everyone else. Very frustrating!!!
Bye for now, it was good to hear from you.
Rachel :)
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Hello,
Although the spelling is wrong we can see this would be Mark or his son, several other Brooker researchers agree:
Broker Mark Seaman Lawsons 26 Jan 1851 Launceston Calcutta via Swan River Lawsons,
Found on the Tasmanian db. As we know Mark was a Spirit Merchant for a while and travel several times presumably for his business. We can see from the above that if it is him he was a seaman! Do you have v much on John Nichols, as all I have is that he was born in 1826 and died in 1900, he and Matilda had many children can you help me there?
If you are interested i can send you info on the Curran/Slade side which is good reading as we are related to John Philpot Curran orator master of the rolls Ireland, the Slades go back to 1650.
Cheers,
Fran
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Hi!
John Vincent Nichols 3/10/1826 Tas - 1/1/1900 New South Wales
Father - Thomas Nichols (convict on the Maria 1820) 1801 - 1882
Mother - Mary Ann Vincent (free person) 1804 - 1877
Thomas & Mary Ann marry 10 Nov 1823. He was 22 she was 19.
John & Matilda married about 1851 & had about 14 children. Matilda 1852, Mary Ann 1855, Thomas 1856, Edward 1858, John 1859, Susan 1860, William 1862, Alfred 1864, Clara 1869, Henry 1872, Alice 1874, Violet 1867, Edith 1880 & Mark 1883 - not all living to adulthood.
For info on his life there's a book "Path of Pioneers" by John Lynch (A History of early Ten Mile Creek -Germanton- Holbrook. Bottom of page 67.
In the book it says he came to tassie at age 9 but I have his birth info from the Aust birth index stating he was born in Tassie also on his fathers marriage cert it states Thomas is a convict . I think he hid the fact that his father was a convict.
Hope that helps.
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Hello I am new here. If you or anyone is interested in mark Brooker/Simmons/Morgan/Eglinton connection please contact me (*)
I am in Ancestry.com.au
Cheers
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Note: New members need to make 3 postings before the PM system is fully functional
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Hi,
I too am on ancestry.com. My tree is public - Ryan / Carrolan.
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HI Nayr & Darleith,
We are all connected by Mark Brooker/Matilda Simmons.
Nayr, what descendant of Matilda Martha Nichols nee Brooker are you descended from?
Darleith, how are you connected to this branch?
I am descended from Mary Ann Nichols, one of Matilda Martha Nichols nee Brookers daughters.
Regards,
Chris.
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Hi,
I'm from Matilda Martha Samphier nee Nichols line. John & Matilda Nichols were my 4x great grandparents.
Glad you mention Matilda Martha Nichols nee Brooker, what information do you have regarding her and her family? I recently got an email saying that Matilda Brooker married William Kingshott not John Nichols, and lived a totally different life in Tassie & had 4 kids.
I have a copy of Clara Florence Louise Smith nee Nichols ( sister of Matilda & Mary Ann) death cert & it says Matilda Nichols nee Brooker was her mum.
Anyway it was good to hear from you.
:) Nayr
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Hello,
But no one can come up with a marriage cert in 1852 for Matilda nee Brooker and John Nichols!
Just a few lines in a book are not enough clarification of a union. I have made contact with, The Tasmanian Colonial DB and they write; I have checked the Pioneer Index to Tasmanian births, deaths and marriages which confirms that Matilda Brooker was baptised to Mark and Matilda Martha (nee Simmons) on the 29 Aug 1837 in Launceston (RGD32 No 7996 of 1837) and she married William Kingshot on the 19 October 1863 at New Norfolk (RGD37 No 597 of 1863). I could find no record of her marriage to John Nichols. With John Nichols, it may just be that the marriage is not in the Registrar General’s records for some reason, although the Colonial Link database, which you have seen on our web site, does make the ‘assumption’ that couples married just because they had children.
More clarification appears essential Brooker researchers there are enough of us out there to clear this one up!.....
Fran :-\
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FRUSTRATING!!!!!!! :-\
I've ordered the death cert for Matilda Nichols nee Brooker father Mark. On the death cert for John Nichols daughter Clara her mothers name is Matilda Nichols nee Brooker.
I've contacted a Nichols decendent who may or may not be able to help.
The hunt continues. I'm sure someone will come up with something sooner hopefully rather than later.
The search continues. ::)
Goodluck to everyone. :)
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Hi,
But no one is making a much to do about the marriage in 1852, if it took place where is the certificate????
Fran ??? ??? ???
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Hi,
Well I'm gonna keep looking, and I'm impatiently waiting for Matilda's death cert that I ordered. The answers are out there somewhere. ???
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Finding the Marriage is essential for Nichols! But there is no record in Vic or Tassie!
Can we be researching two different Matilda Brookers? We now have the proof that this Matilda Brooker b. 1837 married a William Kingshot as there records are linked on the Tassie colonial DB :D
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Hi Fran & Nayr,
From my records John Nichols & Matilda Martha Brooker had their first child in NSW.
Were they married in NSW?
If my Matilda Martha Nichols nee Brooker who definitely died NSW 1914 has a death entry marking her father as Mark Brooker and mother as Matilda M, it's going to be a bit difficult to understand there being another woman marrying a Kingshott whose parents were also Mark Brooker and Matilda M...?
Pardon my ignorance - RGD37 No 597 of 1863 is the Tasmanian BDM system? Does this entry mention her parents names; does it mention the actual full name of "Matilda Martha Brooker"?
Chris
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Hi Chris.
You and I are decended from John & Matilda Nichols. Matilda was Matilda Martha Brooker her Father Mark Brooker.
I've ordered Matilda Nichols death cert so hopefully that will give more information.
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Mark Brookers wife Matilda Martha Simmons went off with James Eglinton and 3 of her children. If you follow the lives of all the children Matilda Brooker seems was not one of them! It seems stayed in Tas. and married Kingshott.
Has anyone looked up shipping records to see when/if Matilda Brooker went to Melbourne?
Also She being born in Aug 1837 would mean It would have been Feb 1851 when her 1st child was conceived to Mr.Nichols. At 14 1/2 years??????????
All interesting.
Jeff
Grt Grt Grand Son of Lavinia Brooker
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Chris,
The only entry with the name Matilda Martha Brooker is linked with the Nichols entry. It appears to be a different Matilda Brooker, not linked to the Brooker Family of Mark and Matilda (nee Simmons) Brooker.
Where the Brooker family and the marriage to Kingshott states quiet clearly Matilda and are linked as per Tasmanian Archives. They write; I have checked the Pioneer Index to Tasmanian births, deaths and marriages which confirms that Matilda Brooker was baptised to Mark and Matilda Martha (nee Simmons) on the 29 Aug 1837 in Launceston (RGD32 No 7996 of 1837) and she married William Kingshot on the 19 October 1863 at New Norfolk (RGD37 No 597 of 1863). I could find no record of her marriage to John Nichols.
Although the Colonial Link database, which you have seen on our web site, does make the ‘assumption’ that the couple married there is no proof of a marriage with Nichols and a Matilda Brooker.
Fran
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Hi all,
Now that we are getting all the specific information out, it is becoming a bit clearer which is handy.
It will be interesting to see what the go is with Matilda Martha Nichols nee Brooker's death cert that you are getting Fran & Nayr.
Regards,
Chris.
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Hi
The proof has arrived. Matilda Nichols is the daughter of Mark Brooker and Matilda Martha Simmons.
I just received the death certificate for Matilda Nichols. Parents Mark Brooker Coach Proprietor and Martha Simmons. Born Clarendon Tasmania. Married at 16yrs in Melbourne Victoria. 77yrs old when she died, 4 july 1914.
Hope that clears thing's up. :)
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Yes. completely agree. Thanks for the help here.
Matilda Brooker who married William Kingshott abt 1863 was the Daughter of Elijah Brooker. She was born in 1847 in Berkshire. Please note William Kingshotts Mother was Hannah Kingshott and Father was a Coleman. The first 4 Children were named Kingshott and last 7 were Colemans. They came to Melton Victoria abt 1872 from Tasmania, had 2 children and moved to Benalla, Victoria having another 4 Children. William and Matilda Coleman died in Benalla and are buried at Winton Cemetery, Victoria.
.
Elijah Brooker b. abt 1816 probably in Berkshire married Ann Mackrell in Hungerford, Berkshire in 1840. They moved to Australia in 1855 with their children Mary Ann, George, Matilda and Thomas.