RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: maple on Friday 11 August 06 23:09 BST (UK)
-
I have a GGGrandfather who died in 1870, in Carnock in Fife. On his death cert it said that he died a pauper.
I was wondering if he could be on the Poor Relief Records.
Does anyone know how I could get in touch with which ever group holds these records?
Thanks
Maple
-
Hya Maple, try this website below. It's the Fife Council Archives and holds the Parochial Board and Parish Council Records.
Just follow the instructions for the archives and I'm sure there will be someone who can help you with your query. Good Luck, GEN10
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/FIF/parishes/Carnock/#Poor
-
Hi Gen10
Thank you for the information. I will look into it right away.
Thanks Again
Maple
-
Hello Maple
It doesn't follow that a man described as a pauper was in receipt of poor relief.
Some time ago I spoke on the telephone to a Fife council archivist. I cannot for the life of me remember his name, but I think he was in a place called Methill.
My specific interest in talking to this man was to obtain Dunfermline poor house records.
He told me that no poor house records survive for the period relevant to your inquiry, but council minutes are available for public viewing by appointment.
If your man was a recipient of poor relief, it might be contained in this documentation but you need to be there. Take something to keep yourself awake.
I could be wrong about this but I seem to remember reading that poor relief was dispensed by the church through cash receipts from Mort cloth usage rather than by the state. Perhaps this was earlier
May I suggest that you telephone Fife Council and ask for their archivist and explain to him what you want to know. Now I come to think about it, I think his first name was Andrew. He was very helpful to me.
I don't seem to have helped you very much
M
-
Hi Malmo
Thank you for your interest.
I don't know wether he was living in the poorhouse or not. His Death Cert only says that he died in Carnock. It also says that he died a pauper. The informant of his death was a woman who claimed to be his second wife.
I have sent an e-mail to a person listed as being in the genealogical branch of the Fife Council. So far I have not received a reply.
As I am living in the USA, I can't go and drop in to find out anything. If all the records are lost, well that is that I guess. :-\
-
Hello Maple
If he died in Carnock, it seems unlikely he would have been in a Poorhouse. Carnock is just a wee place and I would think the nearest Poorhouse would have been the Dunfermline one.
A librarian at Dunfermline Carnegie Library told me, just at the weekend, that some West Fife Poor relief records were lost in a fire.
Trish
-
Hi Trishmac
Thanks for the information. I guess that he didn't die in the Poorhouse then, as he was definitely living in Carnock.
I had thought that there was a chance that he did, as he was listed as having "Died a Pauper"
I hope that the records for that time in Carnock aren't burned. :( I guess that I will have to cross my fingers. So far I have had no reply to the e-mail I sent to the Genealogical person at the Fife Council.
Thanks
Maple
-
Hello Maple again
I may have thrown in a red herring by referring to the poor house. I only mentioned it because I thought poor house residency archives might be cross referenced with poor relief. If only things were this simple.
Trishmac’s point is clear, if it doesn’t say he died in the poor house, then he didn’t die in the poor house. In any case the poor house was in Dunfermline where one of mine spent his last days. He was a Carnock man.
That brings us back to where you came in. I have made one or two enquiries and the archivist who I referred to earlier is Andrew Dowsey. His e-mail is A.Dowsey[at]Fife.gov.uk. Tel 01592 416504 (44). I have found him very helpful in the past. There is an outstanding query about the information available from parish records. I’ll let you know if anything develops.
M
Moderator Comment: e-mail edited, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please replace [-- at --] with @
-
The Parish Council minutes held at the family history library in Dunfermline, which include details of poor relief, date from 1848 to 1868 and 1896 to 1930.
I can’t comment on Trishmac’s fire damage statement but it seems that your options have been narrowed down to the archivist mentioned previously if the information you seek isn’t included in what is available at Dunfermline.
Hoping this helps.
M
-
Hi Malmo
Thank you so much for your help and your interest.
He died in 1870, and the records only go to 1868. :( I don't know where he was living in 1868. He was born in Stirlingshire.
Thank you for the e-mail address. I will get in touch with A. Dowsey to see if he can give me any information.
Thanks again :-*
Maple
-
Have you looked at the 1861 census returns. On the assumption that he was an older person it's probable he was living in the same place as he was in 1868.
M
-
Hi Malmo
He was 71 when he died in 1870. I haven't been able to find him on the 1861, or 1851 Census. I think that I have found him on the 1841 Census living in Tillicoultry. His name was John McDonald, and that name is very common. I believe that I have found his 1st wife on the 1861 Census living near her married daughter.
Regards
Maple
-
Hello Maple
I’m looking for the exact same person so would love to know how you got on!
I will dm you
-
A few belated comments:
A pauper is, specifically, a person in receipt of poor relief. Not all paupers were taken into a poorhouse; where possible they were given 'outdoor relief' to enable them to live at home.
Support of the poor was undertaken by the church untiil 1845, when parochial boards were set up in order to deal with the poor.
One of the tasks of the parochial boards was to set up and manage poorhouses. Sometimes several parochial boards would club together and build one large central poorhouse to serve several parishes. The poorhouse records are not 'cross-referenced' with the parochial board records; they are part of the parochial board records.