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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Kent Lookup Requests => Kent => England => Kent Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: WG on Sunday 06 August 06 14:38 BST (UK)
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I can't find any trace of Richard and Elizabeth COULDERY in any census at Ancestry.com. I know only that Elizabeth died 10 May 1876 in Deptford, Kent and Richard was a railway porter.
The IGI lists the following children christened at St Alphage, Greenwich. All show father Richard Couldery and mother Elizabeth.
Name Born Christened
Richard Chapel Couldery 29 Dec 1816
Robert Couldery 25 May 1819 17 Jan 1827
Susannah Couldery 26 Mar 1827 24 Nov 1837
Susannah Couldery 17 Feb 1836
Henry Couldery 24 Aug 1828 17 Sep 1828
James Couldery 28 Aug 1830 20 Sep 1830
Thomas Cootling Couldery 24 Apr 1832 14 May 1832
I can't find the children in the census either. Can anyone help?
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Hi there
A puzzle indeed!
Are you referring to the Elizabeth Couldrey registered June qtr 1876, Greenwich vol 1d page 470?
If so, her age at death is 55 in the GRO Index which would make it impossible for her to have been the mother of those children.
Is it possible that Richard died very young, that his wife remarried and that the family took on a different surname?
Cheers
Dave
PS: How do you know that Richard was a railway porter?
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Thanks Dave. I couldn't find Elizabeth's death in the index so I didn't know her age at death. You're right that she couldn't be the mother of those children if she died in 1876 at age 55. Maybe I'm dealing with two different Richard & Elizabeth couples.
I have a list of Couldery wills which another Couldery researcher compiled years ago. It has this entry:
COULDERY, ELIZABETH d. 10th MAY 1876 OF 6 HEREFORD PLACE
DEPTFORD KENT. WIFE OF RICHARD COULDERY
RAILWAY PORTER. ADMIN P.P.R. 27th JUNE 1876
TO RICHARD £200
I assumed the Richard & Elizabeth I found in the IGI were the same ones from the will but perhaps I'm wrong. Still, it's strange that I can't find anything on any Richard & Elizabeth Couldery in the census. Perhaps an address lookup of 6 Hereford Place, Deptford in the 1871 census would provide a clue (assuming address lookups are possible in 1871).
As you say, it's possible that Richard died young and Elizabeth remarried, taking a different surname.
I also thought it was strange that the IGI shows two christenings for Susannah. My first thought was that the first Susannah died young and they named their next daughter Susannah also. But that doesn't fit with the dates as they overlap -- one Susannah was born in 1827 and christened in 1837, and the other was christened in 1836 (while the other was obviously still alive). So perhaps this also suggests more than one Richard & Elizabeth couple.
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Hi there
Regarding the two Susannah's, it's possible that the date of birth was actually March 1837, not March 1827. Otherwise, yes there would be two couples called Richard & Elizabeth Couldrey. It doesn't seem terribly likely for such an uncommon surname.
As regards 6 Hereford Place in Deptford, in 1881 the property was occupied by a railway porter called Robert H Richardson (age 35, Bletchingley) with his wife Mary and children, plus two boarders Messrs Reith and Pile (both railway workers).
And in 1871 the property was occupied by a bricklayer called William C S Wackett (age 23, b. Deptford) with his wife May Ann and child, plus a boiler maker called George Helyar (30, b.Bridport) also with wife and child. [RG10/744 folios 9-10 pp12-13] No Couldrey's along this stretch of road.
I'm wondering whether the address is a red herring. Is it possibly where Elizabeth was living when she wrote her Will (perhaps many years earlier) rather than where she died? The death certificate should reveal all!
Dave
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Hi,
The 1861 has a Richard Couldey and wife Eliza as follows
RG9/ 400 schedule 141 page 24, 15 John st
Richard Couldey Head age 43 Quillan in Engine Factory ?
Eliza age 43
1871 as follows
Greenwich St Alphage RG10 755, schedule 25, page 6
(mis transcribed as Anldery, but reads to me as Couldery)
Richard Couldery, 55 unreadable general line, greenwich
Elizabeth wife, 54, greenwich
Joseph son age 15, railway .. unreadable, greenwich
Hope this helps
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Hi,
The 1861 has a Richard Couldey and wife Eliza as follows
RG9/ 400 schedule 141 page 24, 15 John st
Richard Couldey Head age 43 Quillan in Engine Factory ?
Eliza age 43
1871 as follows
Greenwich St Alphage RG10 755, schedule 25, page 6
(mis transcribed as Anldery, but reads to me as Couldery)
Richard Couldery, 55 unreadable general line, greenwich
Elizabeth wife, 54, greenwich
Joseph son age 15, railway .. unreadable, greenwich
Hope this helps
Well spotted!
I think Richard's occupation in 1871 is "stopman general line" and Joseph's is "railway telegraph messenger".
In 1861 I think his occ reads "driller in engine factory".
The household's incomplete, incidentally. Here's the full monty:
1861 Greenwich (West)
RG9/400 folio 138 pp 24-25
15 John Street
Richard Couldey, head, 43, driller in engine factory, Greenwich Kent
Eliza do., wife, 43, Greenwich Kent
Elizabeth Fay, niece, 14, Greenwich Kent
Joseph Cutridge, nursechild, 4 mo[nths], Greenwich Kents
... separate household, same address ...
Esther Watkins, head, widow, 79, [birthplace not stated]
So where was their son Joseph (age 5) in 1861?
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1841 census HO107 489/19 folio 19 page 7
(Greenwich Royal Hospital for Seamen- indexed as, but the page itself says Union workhouse) Greenwich Kent
Henry Couldery 13 Kent Pauper
Potential deaths before 1841 on the civil registration
Deaths Dec 1837
COULDERY Elizabeth Greenwich 5 145
COULDERY James Greenwich 5 134
COULDERY Richard Greenwich 5 145
1851 census HO107 1587 folio 276
The ? Pub Traflagar Place Greenwich Kent
Richd Couldry 31 Greenwich, Kent, Servant Unmarried Potman
Marriages Sep 1852
BUZZEY Elizabeth Lewisham 1d 900
COULDREY Richard Lewisham 1d 900
Saunter Charles Lewisham 1d 900
SINDON Mary Jane Lewisham 1d 900
Marriages Mar 1879
COULDRY Richard Greenwich 1d 842
FRANCIS Charlotte Greenwich 1d 842
1881 census RG11 708 folio 115
61 Pagnal Street Deptford St Paul London
Richard Couldrey 62 Greenwich, Kent, Head Married Railway Porter
Charlotte Couldrey 59 Swindon, Wiltshire, Wife Married
plus 2 boarders
Deaths Jun 1889
Couldery Richard 69 Lewisham 1d 570
Regards
Valda
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Thanks, everyone, for all the replies.
1861 Greenwich (West)
RG9/400 folio 138 pp 24-25
15 John Street
Richard Couldey, head, 43, driller in engine factory, Greenwich Kent
Eliza do., wife, 43, Greenwich Kent
Elizabeth Fay, niece, 14, Greenwich Kent
Joseph Cutridge, nursechild, 4 mo[nths], Greenwich Kents
... separate household, same address ...
Esther Watkins, head, widow, 79, [birthplace not stated]
I found this one especially interesting as I have a Joseph Couldery who married Rebecca WATKINS 13 Jul 1876 at Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster. I have Rebecca's parents as William Finniss WATKINS and Ann. And Joseph's parents are William Lovelace COULDERY and Jane BARKER. Still, I wonder if Esther WATKINS is related to Rebecca -- perhaps her grandmother? Could someone lookup Esther in the earlier census' please?
Also, could someone lookup the niece, Elizabeth FAY in 1851 please?
Thanks,
WG
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Marriages Mar 1879
COULDRY Richard Greenwich 1d 842
FRANCIS Charlotte Greenwich 1d 842
1881 census RG11 708 folio 115
61 Pagnal Street Deptford St Paul London
Richard Couldrey 62 Greenwich, Kent, Head Married Railway Porter
Charlotte Couldrey 59 Swindon, Wiltshire, Wife Married
plus 2 boarders
Deaths Jun 1889
Couldery Richard 69 Lewisham 1d 570
Thanks Valda. It looks like Richard re-married after Elizabeth died in 1876. I had found Richard COWDREY, railway porter, at 61 Pagnell St in the 1881 LDS CDs and wondered if it was really Richard COULDERY, but I don't have access to the images to check it. Since you've spelled it COULDREY, can I assume you've checked the image? Or did you use a different index?
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Also, could someone lookup the niece, Elizabeth FAY in 1851 please?
She actually looks to me to be Elizabeth FRY in 1861, and indeed is transcribed as such. I'm not finding her easily in 1851, but here's a birth:
Elizabeth FRY Jun 1847 Greenwich vol 5 p 216.
HTH :)
Anna
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I checked the actual 1881 census image itself otherwise I wouldn't have written it as Couldrey.
Watkins as a surname is one of the more common in this country and though Esther was at the same address she was living in a different household. Quite small houses could be subdivided into a surprising number of households. There is no reason to suspect Esther was in anyway related to the Richard Couldery just because she was a close neighbour
Rebecca Couldery the wife of Joseph Couldery born Greenwich circa 1850 was according to the 1891 census, when the couple were in Rye, born Westerham Kent circa 1854. On the 1861 census she was in Westerham with her parents and siblings. Father William F. Watkins gave his birthplace as Westerham circa 1809. Mother Ann was born in Yorkshire in circa 1811.
Joseph Couldery was in Greenwich on the 1851 census with his parents William born circa 1822 in Lewisham (though I appreciate his baptism was in Greenwich to Robert and Charlotte - he is consistent on the 1861 census with a birthplace of Lewisham) and Jane born circa 1816 Witney Oxfordshire. William was a butcher.
William was with Robert on the 1841 census in Lewisham. Robert was also a butcher and aged 61. He was lodging alone in Greenwich on the 1851 census and gave his birthplace as Greenwich.
Regards
Valda
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The George helyar, 30 of Bridport is my George Helyar. he and wife Mary Ann nee Morley Married St James Westminster. If anyone is related to him I would love to here from you. He was definitly living Hereford place.
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The George helyar, 30 of Bridport is my George Helyar. he and wife Mary Ann nee Morley Married St James Westminster. If anyone is related to him I would love to here from you. He was definitly living Hereford place.
Oh yes.......My dad remembers Colin Cowdrey, the English Spin bowler (cricket)......I have no idea how he knew him. We lived in Kent and Colin C played for Kent. perhaps coincidence.
Life is full of them
Cheers Pam Hillier
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Hello,
I just stumbled across this thread and thought I would pass on this little bit of information. I have a Elizabeth Couldery in my tree, married to Thomas Larking. The marriage took place in Charlton, Kent in 1839. Elizabeth is down as of full age and a spinster. Her fathers name is Richard Couldery, a butcher. They had eight children.
In the 1841 census they are living in Greenwich and have a son Thomas 1yr old. Living with them is Frederick Couldery age 16. probably Elizabeths brother. They are all ticked born in County. In the 1851 census Frederick is a visitor at Blackheath Hill, Greenwich age 26 and a Butcher. In 1871 Frederick is married to Rosina and still in Blackheath Hill, although now he is the Head of family, there are no children. In 1851 Richard Couldery appears as a witness on the marriage certificate of Edward Larking, my g.g.grandfather.
Hope this is of some help
Bumblemum
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I just did a google search for Couldery and Greenwich and spotted this thread. I have a Susannah Couldery in my tree. born about 1832, her father was Richard Couldery a butcher. She appears at the Royal Hospital School in Greenwich on the 1841 census. She married James Larking in 1850 and then Charles Joseph Austin in 1859. I too found the Susannah mentioned above, but the dates seem wrong. I also found the will of a William Couldery, also a butcher who died in Greenwich in 1844. His widow was Ann. If anyone has any info on Susannah or Richard I'd be really grateful.
thanks
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Do you have the marriage certificate for Susannah Couldery and James Larking. I have an Elizabeth Couldery in my tree, married to Thomas Larking. Thomas's father is also called Thomas and is a butcher and Elizabeth is a spinster of full age, father Richard Couldery, a butcher. They were married in 1839 in Charlton. My Larkings all come from Greenwich. It sounds like two sisters marrying two brothers although as yet I haven't got James in my tree. If you have the marriage cert it could show the same father. The witnesses on Thomas and Elizabeth's marriage cert are George & Elisa Knight, do these names mean anything to you.
Not a lot of help to you really, but could be another piece of the puzzle.
Bumblemum
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I have the marriage certificate for Susannah Larking, Nee Couldery and Joseph Charles Austin. They were married in Deptford St Nicholas on 23/4/1859. Susannah is shown as a widow and her father was Richard Couldery, butcher. I believe she was born in about 1832 in Greenwich. There is a christening of a Susannah Couldery at St Alphege, Greenwich in November 1837, although the birth is listed as 26th March 1827 which seems too early. The parents are Richard and Elizabeth Couldery. Susannah appears on the 1841 census as a charity girl at the Royal Hospital School Greenwich. I believe she married James Larking in 1850 in Lewisham (there is a bmd entry which fits, although I don't have the certificate). They had two children James (b. 1851) and Annie (b. 1854). Presumably James died some time after 1853. I have had a look at the admission records for the Royal Hospital School and can't find her so it seems likely that she was in the workhouse side of it, rather than the naval side (as her father wasn't in the navy). I can't trace Richard and ELizabeth in 1841 so I don't know whether they were already dead, or have been transcribed wrongly on Ancestry (quite likely!). I would be grateful for any other info on the Couldery's. Susannah was my G. G. Grandmother.
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Just found a Susannah Larking in the 1851 census, transcribed as Susannah Sarking.
3? Conduit Terrace, Greenwich
Susannah Larking, wife, married, 23, mariners wife, b.Greenwich
Ref. H.O.107/1587
So we can now say she was born 1827 rather than 1837
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well done! That ties up with the IGI record as well. Do you have any other info on her parents - Richard and Elizabeth?
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I just did a google search for Couldery and Greenwich and spotted this thread. I have a Susannah Couldery in my tree. born about 1832, her father was Richard Couldery a butcher. She appears at the Royal Hospital School in Greenwich on the 1841 census. She married James Larking in 1850 and then Charles Joseph Austin in 1859. I too found the Susannah mentioned above, but the dates seem wrong. I also found the will of a William Couldery, also a butcher who died in Greenwich in 1844. His widow was Ann. If anyone has any info on Susannah or Richard I'd be really grateful.
Hi Chesvilla and Bumblemum. Although I started this thread, I seem to have lost track of it until today when I got an e-mail from RootsChat saying that the topic has been moved. Anyway, I was pleased to see your messages as I'm doing a sort of one-name study of Couldery and have collected a lot of information. I have info on many Coulderys from Greenwich and Lewisham. At first glance, I don't see a connection to the ones you've mentioned, but I'll have a closer look today and see if I can figure out how they fit in.
I'd be very interested in the will of William Couldery which you mentioned. I have a fair bit of info on the descendants of William and Ann (6 generations).
I'd be happy to share any of my Couldery info with you. And, if we put our heads together, maybe we can fit your Coulderys into my database. Send me a personal message if you're interested.
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I have a Elizabeth Couldery in my tree, married to Thomas Larking. The marriage took place in Charlton, Kent in 1839. Elizabeth is down as of full age and a spinster. Her fathers name is Richard Couldery, a butcher. They had eight children.
In the 1841 census they are living in Greenwich and have a son Thomas 1yr old. Living with them is Frederick Couldery age 16. probably Elizabeths brother. They are all ticked born in County. In the 1851 census Frederick is a visitor at Blackheath Hill, Greenwich age 26 and a Butcher. In 1871 Frederick is married to Rosina and still in Blackheath Hill, although now he is the Head of family, there are no children. In 1851 Richard Couldery appears as a witness on the marriage certificate of Edward Larking, my g.g.grandfather.
How certain are you that the Frederick Couldery who married Rosina Job (14 Jun 1858 in Saint Dunstan, Stepney) is the same Frederick Couldery who was living with your Elizabeth Couldery and Thomas Larking in 1841? I could be wrong, but I have Frederick as the son of William Couldery and Ann, and in 1841 Frederick is living with them at Turnpin Lane, Greenwich, Kent (HO107 / 489 / 1 Folio 18, Page 30). So, it seems that the 1841 census has two Frederick Coulderys in Greenwich who are about the same age and born in the county. I'm not certain which one later married Rosina Job.