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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Suffolk => Topic started by: Twincam on Thursday 27 July 06 21:50 BST (UK)
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Hi All
I've just bought a wonderful 1927 Sunbeam 25 h.p. Tourer
http://www.pioneer-automobiles.co.uk/Resources/library/Sunbeam%2025%20Tourer.html
It was first owned in 1928 by a Colonel Jacynth D'Ewes of Fitzgerald Coke, West Suffolk.
I was wondering if anyone could find an address for a d'Ewes family in Fitgerald Coke, in the 1901 census. To be a colonel in 1928, he was almost certainly born before 1901, I hope!
Thanks
Alan
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Hi Alan
The gentleman in question gets a mention here:
http://users.adelphia.net/~hwaller/George%20Waller.htm
Dave
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How did you find that ;D ;D
I looked all over the internet searching for all sorts of things and found nothing...
I'll get in touch with them.
Thanks a 1,000,000
Alan
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I found this ... if it's the same man he married in 1902 !!
1a2d4) f7d. Elizabeth Hannah Waller (1879 - 1963) m. 1902 Col. Jacynth D'Ewes Fitz-Ercald Coke
http://users.adelphia.net/~hwaller/George%20Waller.htm
Annie :)
Snap Dave !! :D
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By the way Alan ...........
Congratulations ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks Dave/Annie
I think the info I was given has been mis-interpreted. Fizgerald Coke was down as the town in W. Suffolk, but it's part of his name!
Also, it looks like it's spelt wrong. That's two references with Fitz-Ercald Coke.
It's a heck of a name :)
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Here he is - note "Fitz- Coke" is actually part of his name!
1891 Edgbaston, Warks
RG12/2358 folio 115 page 24
11 Manor Road
William Langton Coke, head, 48, [occ - see below], Fington Derby
Ada Caroline Catherine Coke, wife, 34, Cap Colony (British Subject)
Langton Sacheverell Coke, son, 13, Cap Colony (British Subject)
Jacinth D'Ewes F Coke, son, 11, Pinxton Derbys
Anthony L H O Coke, son, 6, Birchington I of Thanet Kent
(Plus three servants)
William's occupation:
JP Derbyshire & Notts, Col 5th Derbyshire Regt, attached Royal Engineers, Civil Engineer
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He doesn't seem to be listed in 1901.
Away fighting a war?
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Post on the Armed Forces board too ........ you might get some more military information !!
Annie :)
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Certainly will go to the forces board :)
What's interesting is that the car was first registered in Scotland, but the first owner was in Suffolk.
Thanks for the help guys. Off to the forces board, with an age and possibly a regiment as it's quite possible he would have joined his father's regiment.
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His medal card is available online at TNA
Indexed under the name:
Jacinth D'Euls Fitz-Gerald Coke
Corps: Royal Army Service Corp Mediterranean Expeditionary Force
Rank: Major Brevet Lieutenant Colonel
Corps: Royal Army Service Corps
Rank: Temporary Colonel
WO 372/4
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According to the 1881 Census he was born in Kirkby Notts
Birth registration
Jacinth D'Ewes F E COKE
Dec qtr 1879
Basford vol 7b p105
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He's on somebody else's :) family tree !!
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/s/a/n/Richard-F-Sanders/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0413.html
Annie
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dang was just gonna post that info............ ;D, although that family tree has more info on his wife than him, and yet again a diff spelling :D
Jacynth D'Ewes Titz-Ercal Coke.
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Titz-Ercal Coke. That's the best yet :D
And in 1881 he's F E Coke, so that's another vote for Ercal.
I wasn't looking for Coke of course, so I didn't find a blooming thing :(
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This explains the Suffolk connection ! :o
The Times, Monday May 20, 1963, pg 16
Obituary
Colonel Jacynth D'Ewes FitzErcald Coke
CMG, CVO, CBE, who died on Friday
at his home at Woodbridge, Suffolk, was
chief constable of the West Riding in Yorkshire
from 1919 to 1929 and from 1932 to 1937
Chief Constable of West Suffolk. From the latter
year until 1945 he was one of His [sic] Majesty's
Inspectors of Constabulary
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wonder where he lived in Woodbridge...........
a very nice town. ;D ;D
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You guys are unbelievable. I had been told that the car was once owned by..... The Chief Constable of Suffolk. I hadn't even started down that route yet.
If you lot ran the country....
Thanks for all the info and research.
Alan
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The next known owner of the car was "The Garage" in Walsham le Willows, Suffolk in 1960. I had assumed that there was some information missing, but it's quite possible that the Colonel kept it and it was sold in Suffolk.
Now that I have so much info I can go to the Police and ask if they have anything on the Colonel that I can look at. Might even find a period photo of the car (which is the ultimate goal!).
I can also try and find some living relatives to see if they have any photos.
Brilliant.
Alan
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Maybe an email here would give you some information .... worth a shot !!
http://www.walsham-le-willows.org/
Annie :)
I know you're only interested in the car ..... but I would follow the man if I was you - sounds like a fascinating subject !!
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I looked at that site and they have a history group - definitely worth a phone call.
The car was sold on in 1968. During it's time in W le W it had the rear half of its body chopped off and replace with a wooden flatbed truck body. It was used as a garage hack!
You never know, they might be able to find me a photo of it in that state - which will probably upset me >:(
And I will research the man a bit too. He does sound interesting - very much a part of the car's history, especially if he kept it from 1928 to 1960 - that's a LONG time to own a car..
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By the looks of this site you could chase his family back to 1373 !
http://newsite.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/british/cc4aq/coke02.htm
It has all the names: Sacheverall, Coke, D'Ewes, Jacynth, Fitzherbert
Cheers ;D
AMBLY
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is this the garage
Pj Rudderham
Summer Road Garage Walsham-Le-Willows
Bury St Edmunds Suffolk IP31 3AH
Tel: (01359 259433)
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If this car was mine Ambly !! ...... I'd start a RootsChat webpage .... just for this man and his family ..... it would be so cool !! ;D
and I'd name it .... my car has a pedigree !!
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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She has a name :)
Annabel.
She was named after the daughter of the man who restored her in the late seventies.
Not sure if that's the right garage, the name's definitely not right. Having said that, how many garages are there in a town that size :)
Thanks for that site Ambly.
Alan
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Wish we could find a picture of the man on the net (we is lookin') , if not the car - then we could imagine him in the car ! Then , Aston.. you could even take a snap of the car, and then get Rootschat advise as to how to merge 2 photos so you do end up with him in the car ;D ;D ;D Not very Authentic tho! Have you got a website with a picture of a similar car just to whet our automobilic appetites?
On a more solemn note:
They served their country well :(
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/flight/salpertonwm.html
Cheers AMBLY
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Very few period pictures of this type of car exist. The production figures have been lost, but there are only 11 left (that we know about) worldwide. The only pictures I've found on the net are brochure copies.
Alan
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Now that I know his actual surname a friend found this for me.
From the 1935 copy of Who's Who.
Coke,Col.Jacynth d'Ewes Fitz-Ercald, CMG 1918, CVO 1924, CBE 1927, late RASC; Chief Constable of West Suffolk since 1932; b 1879; m Elizabeth d.of late Albert Waller, of Shannon Grove, Banagher, Ireland; one s. two d. Served South Africa War, 1899 - 1902 (despatches, Queen's medal and 3 clasps, Kings medal and 1 clasp); European War, 1914-18 (despatches, CMG, Legion of Honour) Commander of the Order of the SAviour; retired pay, 1919; Chief Constable of the West Riding of Yorkshire 1919-20; Chief of the British Police Mission to the Greek Govt.,1929-31; His Majesty's Lieutenant for the City of London. Address: Thurston, Suffolk, Clubs: Junior United Service; West Suffolk County.
So now I know where he was in 1901.
Also Thurston is only about 8 miles from Walsham le Willows where the garage is that owned the car next. Quite possible that he sold the car to them direct without any intervening owners.
He certainly sounds like "quite a chap".
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I live across the road from Lady Laura Poole, her father is the Earl of Leicester and he lives at Holkham Hall in Norfolk.
Their family name is Coke (say Cook)
Wonder if any connection ?
SM ...
PS I have not been invited to take tea with the family ;D
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Interesting thread!
Jacynth Coke is listed in the "Police Index" on the Black Sheep Index site http://www.lightage.demon.co.uk/ - it looks like they may have a record of his 1919 application to be Chief Constable....this looks like a useful site but it's new to me.
He's also in this family tree which may be the same as the one already referred to above http://users.adelphia.net/~hwaller/George%20Waller.htm
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Yes, that'll be his application to become CC in Yorkshire.
I've made another deduction (good word for this wild speculative guess).
1919 to 1929 chief constable of the West Riding in Yorkshire
1929 to 1931 Chief of the British Police Mission to the Greek Govt.
1932 to 1937 Chief Constable of West Suffolk
The car was first registered in September 1928, presumably when he bought it. Sunbeams of that period could be fitted with a flat radiator, or optionally, a larger V fronted colonial radiator. The colonial cars also had cooling fans fitted. The car I've bought has a vast colonial radiator (the cooling system takes five and a half gallons of water) and fan. I wonder if he took it with him to Greece?
Alan
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Just to let you know that your letter appealing for more information is in today's East Anglian Daily Times ;)
I hope you might hear something very soon.
Suffolk Mawther ...
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Thanks for letting me know ;D
I'll post a summary of any info I get. I'll go to their website and buy a copy of the paper. Did they print a picture?
UPDATE: They have an online edition which for a hefty £1 I was able to download! No picture, but I'm delighted that they published the letter. Here's hoping...
Alan
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Well don't keep us in suspense Alan ....... tell us what you asked !! ::) ::) ::)
Nosy Annie :) :) :) :)
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Hi Annie
The letter I wrote to them is copied below. It's about the car, but I mentioned the Colonel in the hope that one of his family might get in touch. I've written letters to local papers with genealogy questions, and I've never had one published yet.
They didn't publish a picture, but if someone gets in touch and we meet up, they might!
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Sir, - I'm researching the history of a 1927 Sunbeam 25hp that I've just bought, registration number SY3688.
The earliest known owner was Colonel Jacynth d'Ewes Fitz-Ercald Coke, who became Chief Constable of West Suffolk in 1932 and was living somewhere in Thurston in 1935. I have also been told that the car was in Walsham-le-Willows for many years. It was stored in a lean-to at the Sideways Garage during the war. At some point after the war, the roof of the lean-to collapsed, and the car was converted into a breakdown truck with a wooden cab and crane.
I would very much like to hear from anyone who can confirm any of the above, or tell me more about the car's time in Suffolk.
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I've had a reply ;D ;D ;D ;D
I've been in touch with a gentleman who drove her just after the war. He told me a wonderful story about how he used her to pick up concrete tank traps and drop them at the side of the river to strengthen the banks in '48/'49.
At that time she had a cab from a Morris Commercial lorry, and the crane was made from a Harvey Frost hoist and parts of a lorry tipper and lorry chassis.
I'm arranging to meet him, and there might be a follow-up story in the paper. When a date is arranged I'll post it here in case any of you want to come along.
Alan
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Great stuff Alan!
I wonder if any of the Colonel's family will be in touch.
Did he have any children ?
Dave
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How wonderful Alan ;D
At that time she had a cab from a Morris Commercial lorry, and the crane was made from a Harvey Frost hoist and parts of a lorry tipper and lorry chassis.
Could not do that with one of todays cars could you !!!
Please do keep us up to date, it's so wonderful
Wendi
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Good for you Alan !!
Don't forget to tell us all the "skinny" !!
Still Nosy Annie :) :) :)
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Dave
Not heard from any of his family yet, and I never found a marriage. Having said that, perhaps I should try writing to Country Life or similar.
What I really need is to browse a few copies of Who's Who for later years. Then I'd find out if he'd married and how many children.
I'll keep you all informed of any progress.
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Amazingly, I've had a second reply. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
This time it's from the son of the man who, early in the Second World War, converted the car into a breakdown truck (A friend spotted the article in the newspaper, then gave it to him a few days ago).
Apparently his father, who owned the garage, needed a prestige car to use as a taxi and bought the Sunbeam for that purpose. This would have been in the late thirties.
The conversion to breakdown truck happened early in the war as they needed one and couldn't get one (for obvious reasons!)
Now that I know the car was in Walsham-le-Willows for quite a long time, and as a taxi, not just as a tow truck, I have contacted the Walsham-le-Willows history society to see if they have any photos I could look through. It might have been used for weddings etc. etc.
Alan
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Just in case anyone's still following this, I thought I'd let you know that I have now had a third letter about the car from a man who rode in it as a child in the 1950s when it was still a breakdown truck and being used to collect cars for scrap. The car was still running in 1964 when the garage was sold. Not bad, 1927-1964. Not many modern cars would last that long!
I still haven't managed to trace any of Jacynth's family. Not even sure he had any children.
Alan
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The Times 12/4/1947 page 7 column c has a forthcoming marriage - to take place quietly in London on May 7th between William, son of Col Jacynth Coke .....and Mrs Coke of Woodbridge Suffolk, and Bridget Owen. Let me know if you need more detail.
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Colonel Jacynth Coke was a distant cousin of mine (through my mother's family, Coke) and I can probably put you in touch with his family.
The family originally came from Brookhill Hall, Derbyshire.
I know this is about 8 years too late - I just happened to Google my mother's father (Langton Sacheverell Coke) who was killed on 31st October 1914, and came across the entry.
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Hi ChrisD1944
It's not too late as I still have the car. I would be very grateful if you could pass the word along, I'd dearly love to copy any photos or documents. Equally, I'd like to know any family stories relating to the car.
Thanks
Alan