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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon Lookup Requests => Devon => England => Devon Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: jstomlin on Tuesday 18 July 06 10:21 BST (UK)
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Hi all
This is my first post to the Devon board.
I'm trying to tie up a few loose ends on my wife's tree.
My wife's gg g'father was Thomas Cross. He was born circa 1847 in Newton St Cyres, and his marriage certificate from 6 Apr 1871 names his father as Thomas Cross, a farm bailiff.
The problem I have is that I can't find a suitable entry in the BMD to get Thomas junior's birth certificate. In the 1851 census, Thomas junior is living with Elizabeth Huxtable (b 1784) and not his parents - does anyone have any suggestions? Maybe His father married a Huxtable?
Much appreciated
Jules
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Hi Jules
As he is listed as Elizabeth's Grandson then there is a high chance that his mother was a Huxtable. You say you haven't found a birth entry for him - may be he was born a Huxtable? Any sign of a Thomas Cross marriage to a ? Huxtable? Any sign of Thomas Cross Farm Bailiff in 51?
Jan ;)
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Hi Jan
I've searched high and low on BMD for a Thomas Cross marrying a Huxtable, but can't find one.
I've also yet to find a Thomas Cross farm bailiff. The problem i have is that I don't know his age, where he was born, name of wife, date he died and whether he was a farm bailiff in 1851. That was his trade per his son's marriage cert in 1871 - again, don't know if he was dead then or not.
Cheers Jules
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There is a Thomas Cross born Dec qtr 1847 in St Thomas district which includes parishes very near to Newton St Cyres. Have you found Thomas junior in 1861? The only match I can see is a Thomas Cross born Rewe a servant plough boy in Silverton. Rewe is in St Thomas district but isn't far from Newton St Cyres. There is a Thomas Cross Widower born 1819 in Rewe in 51 he's an Ag Lab but maybe later became a bailiff.
Have you already explored these people and discarded them?
Re Huxtable Thomas's grandmother may have remarried so her daughter had a different surname or daughter was illegitimate and married under her birth name. there is an 1846 Thomas Cross marriage in Crediton district
Jan ;)
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I suspect Farm Bailiff may be an exaggeration, could be deliberate, to make the family background appear grander than it actually was, or he perhaps just didn't know any facts and just guessed. I suspect his parents were not married and it all probability he was registered, if in fact his birth was registered at all, under another name. Difficult I know but sometimes you wish they had left the fathers name blank on the certificate then at least you don't spend time running round in ever decreasing circles. I think the only thing to do is send for the birth cert janan found and see what that says.
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Jan / Jay
Thx for your help in this. Coming from London I didn't know what was and wasn't close to Newton St Cyres.
Is Crediton nearby as well? I think I'll order that marriage certificate. I'll order the 1847 birth certificate as well.
Thinking about Huxtable, she could be Thomas senior's wife's mother or I guess maybe his maternal grandmother - did they bother distinguishing between great grandmother and grandmother on census returns? Anyway, hopefully the certificates will reveal all. I'll let you know when i get them.
By the way, we're on a fortnights holiday in devon this year - I'll take my wife and kids to some of the towns / villages her ancestors came from - Bondleigh, Sampford Courtenay, Bideford, Ilsington, Bovey Tracey, Crediton , Hennock, Kingsstenghton, Cheriton Bishop and Plymouth to name just a few - and she thought she was Welsh!
Cheers Jules
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Jules
This is a good link if you want to know which registration district a parish is in http://www.fhsc.org.uk/genuki/REG/
Newton St Cyres is in Crediton District, Rewe about 4 miles away is in St Thomas - they're all just north of Exeter
Hope the certificates turn out to be the right ones - let us know
Have a good holiday in Devon
Jan ;)
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Okay - I have the certificates.
Marriage
Thomas Cross (of full age, father John Cross) married Mary Ann Harris (of full age, widower, father William Huxtable) on Feb 8 1846 in Newton St Cyres. So that proves the Huxtable thread. Also, in addition to Thomas junior (4) living with Elizabeth Huxtable in 1851 census, there is also Richard Harris (7), both listed as her grandsons.
Birth
Thomas Cross - born to Francis Cross and Susan Cross (formerly Townsend) in Christow - so a dead end there, but I guess the above does away with the need for a certificate.
I can't find Thomas senior or Mary Ann on the 1851 census or later ones. Has anyone any further ideas about where to look.
Jules
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It's quite possible that one or both parents had died by 1851. How old was Elizabeth Huxtable in 1851? If we can find Mary with her in 1841 that at least gives us some idea of how old Mary would be in later censuses.
I can see a marriage between Robert Harris, possibly, and Mary Ann Huxtable, Dec 1842 in Crediton district, on freebmd.
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Elizabeth was born 1784 per the 1851 census, and states birth place as Chawley, Devon. In 1851, she was living in Bondleigh - I checked Bondleigh in 1841, and there were no Huxtables or Cross's living there then.
Cheers Jules
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Hi Jules
Glad one of the certificates turned out to be the right one :D
I'll have a look and see if I can find Elizabeth in 41 - she may be hiding under some bizarre spelling of Huxtable.
Jan ;)
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http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/NewtonStCyres/index.html - there is a link here for someone willing to do quick lookups in the fiches of baptisms/burials - possibly could see if there's a burial for either of the Cross's in Newton St. Cyres before 1851 and/or spot the baptism of Thomas Jr?
There's a Thomas Cross, aged 20, in the 1841 census of Rewe (he appears to be apprenticed to a yeoman farmer named Gilbert Ware) - and also two John Cross's in the poor house, this family:
John Cross, 50, Ag Lab
Elizabeth, 40
William, 20
Jane, 15
Eliza, 12
Samuel, 10
Harriet, 8
John Cross, 60, Ag Lab
(all b. Devon)
Just thought, what with Rewe being so close to Newton St. Cyres, that there may be a link.
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Thx for that.
I can see this is going to be a long slow search! Even if I find Thomas junior's birth cert it probably wouldn't give Thomas senior's age.
I have two possible Mary Ann deaths (Q1 1850 St Thomas and Q3 1850 Okehampton). Her mother was in Bondleigh in Okehampton in 1851, and from your thread, it is possible his family are in Rewe, St Thomas.
If I look up Thomas Cross deaths between 1847 and 1851, the only relevant one I can see is Q1 1851 in St Thomas, which if Mary ann died in 1850, means the reporting family member won't be her!
Any suggestions from a Roots veteran would be appreciated, as it gets expensive ordering certificates. Am I better off asking Devon records to reserach it for me?
Jules
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The Thomas Cross jorose found in Rewe in 41 fits with the one I found in 51 - what is Thomas's address on the marriage certificate?
Jan ;)
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Is your Thomas cross married or widowed?
I'll look it up and post it tonight (I can't remember if it gave an address or not).
Please not I modified my previous post.
Cheers Jules
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Whoops!
the Thomas Cross death reference above was actually a John Cross - can find anty Thomas Cross's
Jules
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The Thomas Cross I found in 51 in Rewe is a Widower
Going back to the Huxtables - have you an occupation for William (Mary Ann's father)?
Jan ;)
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Mmm - this is all very exciting!
William Huxtable was listed as a labourer (as was John Cross) on the marriage certificate of Thomas Cross and Mary Ann Harris (ex Huxtable).
Jules
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Interestingly there is a 65 yr old William Huxtable in Bondleigh no other Huxtables living with him but his occupation is Cl - Clerk I think. Then in Roborough is this family
William Huxtable 15 Ag Lab
Andrew Davey 12 do
Thomas Huxtable 8 do
Elizabeth do 50 F.S
Susanna do 15 do
All born in county
HO107/221/17/8 Pg10
Fits with Elizabeth's former occupation in 51 if only there was a Mary Ann with her
Jan ;)
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Hiya
Sorry - you've lost me on this one (it's been a long day!)
The Elizabeth Huxtable I have was born circa 1784 per the 1851 census, and has Thomas Cross junior (age 4) and Richard Harris (age 7) living with her in Bondleigh. I can't remember whether she is down as a widow - I will look up tonight.
Cheers Jules
Ps - What does F.S. mean?
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Think I'm losing myself ;D
The above was all from the 1841 census
Think Elizabeth in 51 was a Widow and she's something like "independent means formerly a domestic servant"
F. S is female servant
Cheers Jan ;)
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Aha - now I'm with you again!
I didn't realise 1841 and 1851 cenuses both used HO 107 ! Duh!
It's a good fit.
I'll try and see if there are any Mary Ann Huxtable's getting married to ? Harris pre Jun 1841.
I've got to pack for the family Holiday to devon tonight, so not sure if I'll be able to fit it in, but I'll try.
Thx for all your help on this one - much appreciated.
Jules
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Have a good holiday :D
Jan ;)
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Thx.
There is no address given on the marriage certificate of Thomas and Mary Ann ???
I searched BMD for a Huxtable / Harris marriage in Devon from 1837 thru' Dec 1845, and in Q4 1842, Mary Ann Huxtable married Robert Harris in Crediton (ref 10 101). There is a Richard Harris born Q1 1844 in Crediton (ref 10 92) which is likely the grandson in 1851 census. I found a Robert Harris death in Q1 1844 in Crediton (ref 10 68).
This all fits and suggests my Mary Ann Huxtable should be somewhere in the 1841 census.
But the Cross thread - do you think i should order the death cert for Thomas and hope the reporting person is a Huxtable or one of the witnesses at their marriage?
Oh well, I'll be in Devon tomorrow - maybe I'll get some inspiration while I'm down there!
Cheers Jules
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Hiya
Is there any sign of this family in the 1851 census?
In the 1841 census of Rewe, in the poor house is this family:
John Cross, 50, Ag Lab
Elizabeth, 40
William, 20
Jane, 15
Eliza, 12
Samuel, 10
Harriet, 8
John Cross, 60, Ag Lab
(all b. Devon)
I'm hoping John Cross or Elizabeth are still around as I may be able to get a better fix on their borth-date / birth-place, and hopefully eliminate a few of the IGI matches I have. Also, given the two John Cross's, do you think the first one is the hubby to Elizabeth? Any ideas on the second one?
Many thx, Jules
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Hi again
That looks an interseting family
In Rewe 1851
Ramsays, Rewe
John Cross Loger Wid 64 Ag Lab Devon Netherexe
in household of
Roger Cherriton 66 Cooper and wife Mary 62
HO107/1866/512 Pg6
Also
William Cross Lodger U 34 Ag Lab Devon Netherexe
Household of
Jane Pewrey Wid 59 Washerwoman
HO107/1866/513 Pg8
and
Betty Cross Mother in Law Wid 72 Glover Devon Heavitree
Household of
Robert Wilson
wife Betty 38 born Devon Mary's Chits??
HO107/1866/511 Pg5
Plus the Thomas you already have. No sign of the secon John but he could well be dead. Don't know who this older Betty can be.
Jan ;)
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Also in 1851 in Broadclyst
Samuel Cross Servant U 19 Farm Labourer Devon Rew
HO107/1866/65 Pg10
Jan ;)
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Hiya
Thx for that.
Having some PC troubles at home but will follow up later this week
Cheers Jules
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All looks good.
But I still can't find Mary Ann Harris in 1841. ???
Can anyone help? She'll be Mary Ann Huxtable - age unknown, but one possible IGI lead would be born around 1803.
Cheers Jules
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Jules
I have pm you. Would love to swap info as Thomas born 1846 is my cousins paternal great grandfather