RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: penna on Saturday 15 July 06 13:47 BST (UK)
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Hello all,
My Smalley OPS is running well on
but now I am running out of 'history' items, so I am looking at the pedigrees of Smalley people.
I am in the process of updating the KERRY pedigree which is on the site, as is the CARRINGTON line.
From these, I am using the other familes data that occurs in there, and adding to them using PRs, census data and local history, etc.
So far I have almost completed the HALLSWORTH and WOOLLANDS lines; ROE and CRESSWELL have been started, though the latter is causing problems as they seem to have originated in Denby.
I hope to start on WOOLLEY; KYTE; RATCLIFFE; MARTIN; BRENTNALL; BOOTH, and WIDDOWSON before too long.
So if you have any connection with any Smalley families, do get in touch with me.
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Hi
i have family that are from smalley and dale .
GrGrandad John amos Thompson 1882-1948
And julia Hanna thompson Nee Moon
Dale Abbey
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I see from other threads that your John Amos Thompson has been found in Stanley.
The only Thompson in Smalley in 1891 is William; if you go to you will find him with his family. No obvious connection to your line but you never know!
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Sorry Penna
Did not read you subject properly.
Dean
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No problem Dean :)
Just for the record, I now have the updated KERRY line on the Smalley OPS site, plus BRENTNALL; CARRINGTON; HALLSWORTH; ROE; TURTON, and WOOLLANDS.
I am working on the BUXTON and WOOLLEY lines at present.
As always, any contributions gratefully received. ;)
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My apologies to anyone who is trying to reach my site at the moment.
There is a slight glitch, while I am making a few changes.
So please ignore the URL below for just a while.
Hopefully, it will be back shortly.
Regards
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I am happy to say that the Smalley OPS is back on line!
Just a slight change, the URL is now http://web.archive.org/web/20100707030740/http://www.smalley-ops.co.uk/smalleyops.html
Regards
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There is a cresswell link between you and my son then on his paternal side!
Debbie
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Sorry Debbie, I'm not sure who you are replying to :-\
Can I help?
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Ooops Sorry Pena, should have been more specific! :-[
I was relating my post to your Denby Cresswells as my son's paternal line also decends from that line. \i appreciate what you mean about the problems though. Not an easy family!
Debbie
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That's OK Debbie ;)
There has been a lot of detectective work needed to piece together these Smalley families but the Cresswells are really the worst!
For such a prolific family, there is a distinct lack of clues.
There was a definite Smalley Cresswell family but so far I have two sections - John c. 1770 and Samuel c. 1740 but I haven't been able to link them up yet.
I have just received a little information, Kerry's version, of the Denby Cresswells, headed by Robert c. 1600. I haven't begun working on it yet but it is not looking promising at the moment.
As you say, not an easy family!
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I have just uploaded the last of the current batch of Smalley people. Those now on the website, as well the KERRY line are - BRENTNALL; HALLSWORTH; KYTE; MARTIN; ROE; ROGERS; TURTON; WOOLLEY, and WOOLLANDS.
Still working on those dratted CRESSWELLs :(
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Hi Penna,
My mother-in-law was born in Smalley. Her maiden name was Blakey. She is related to the following people also from Smalley: William Ottwell, b ca 1798; Mary Eley, born ca 1885, Lucy Blakey, b 1908; Hugh Blakey, born ca 1845 (in Horsley Woodhouse) and his wife Sarah Mellor, born ca 1847; Octavia Woolley, born ca 1877.
Many members of the family also lived in Marlpool and Horsley Woodhouse, or even moved between them.
Are there any links with your families.
I have one particular question I should like answered. William Ottwell was an uncle to Hugh Blakey (according to census records), but I do not know how?
Chilibear.
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Hi chilibear,
Sorry for the delay in responding but I have been working on your queries.
I think I have solved Octavia Jane; Rev Kerry had identified her, and I had her on the 1881 census but I hadn't put the pieces together before.
She is the daughter of Sarah Moss nee Kyte, previously married to Charles Woolley.
I have updated the database but not loaded it to the webspace yet; I can send you the details if you don't want to wait <g>
As to the Blakeys, I have William Ottewell but as yet don't have the connection; any chance of more clues about the Blakeys?
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Got it! Just found the marriage of Octavia Jane and Hugh Blakey, now I see the connection.
Don't you just love it when it all comes together!
Still working on the rest....
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I have one particular question I should like answered. William Ottwell was an uncle to Hugh Blakey (according to census records), but I do not know how?
Chilibear.
Hi Chilibear - if you are around.
I still can't answer this query :(
Despite searching everything, Hugh & Charles suddenly appear in 1861 as nephews, with no leads as to their origins.
However, everything else seems to have fallen into place; I will upload the new Woolley pages when I can.
For all those Cresswell researchers, I have discovered yet another line that goes nowhere, this time linked to the Woolley line ::)
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Hi Penna,
Thanks for your time. My initial query was a little random; I was just curious to know if you knew of any of these people. I had come across your Smalley pages and found them really interesting - my mother-in-law was amazed that her little village is on the Internet! I cannot wait to see the additions to your pages. By the way, Octavia Woolley's husband Hugh, was the son of the Hugh who is the nephew of William Ottewell. Hugh, senior had a twin brother Charles.
I had found William Ottewell on your website some time ago, but really cannot work out the link. Hugh and Charles Blakey seem to have been brought up by William and Ann Ottewell. However, the information on your website suggests that none of the siblings of William married a Blakey.
Maybe they were connected through the twins mother. I have another posting asking specifically about Hugh and Charles Blakey. From this I have established that their mother was Mary (surname unknown) and had a couple of daughters. She died before 1851. I have ordered her death certificate and the birth and marriage certificates of Charles Blakey on the off-chance that there is a clue there. There father was Charles Hugh Blakey and that is all I know about him!
Did William's wife, Ann a sister, Mary?
Also in 1841, William and Ann Ottewell are at the same address as an Ann Blakey, aged 4. However, I do not know who she is either. I do not think that she is a daughter of Charles Hugh and Mary Blakey.
So clearly there is some connection between the Ottewell and Blakey families, but I have no idea what it is.
Chilibear
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Hi Penna,
My other post is called "Blakey family on 1851 census" if you want to look.
Chilibear.
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Hi Chilibear,
Icould kick myself for not having seen your Blakey 1851 posting - it would have saved me some time ;)
Hi Penna,
Thanks for your time. My initial query was a little random; I was just curious to know if you knew of any of these people. I had come across your Smalley pages and found them really interesting - my mother-in-law was amazed that her little village is on the Internet! I cannot wait to see the additions to your pages.
I have just loaded the amended Woolley pages -
As you will see, I did find most of the connections & information, with the exception of that dratted 1851 census for Mary Blakey!
I had found William Ottewell on your website some time ago, but really cannot work out the link. Hugh and Charles Blakey seem to have been brought up by William and Ann Ottewell. However, the information on your website suggests that none of the siblings of William married a Blakey.
I am still working on that but it may take a while!
Maybe they were connected through the twins mother. I have another posting asking specifically about Hugh and Charles Blakey. From this I have established that their mother was Mary (surname unknown) and had a couple of daughters. She died before 1851. I have ordered her death certificate and the birth and marriage certificates of Charles Blakey on the off-chance that there is a clue there. There father was Charles Hugh Blakey and that is all I know about him!
Hopefully you will get something from the certs; it doesn't help that the IG doesn't have any Blakey marriages and that the Horsley Phillimore Marriages end at 1812.
Also in 1841, William and Ann Ottewell are at the same address as an Ann Blakey, aged 4. However, I do not know who she is either. I do not think that she is a daughter of Charles Hugh and Mary Blakey.
I agree, as there is an Ann on the IGI, d/o William & Mary Blakey baptised on 30 April 1837 at Horsley; but I have included her with Mary & family for the time being.
I will get back to you if & when I find anything else.
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Re the Ottewell/Blakey connection - I think I may have found a clue!
Mary Ottewell = Isaac FISHER 14 Feb 1830 at Duffield, probably Ann (Hannah) FISHER Ottewell's brother?
I'm still working on it but I have to go out soon; more perhaps this evening!
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OK, I admit defeat; after two days of exploring every possible permutation, I'm no further forward in linking Mary Blakey to William Ottewell!
Well, not strictly true; I have found the siblings & parents of Ann Fisher Ottewell.
Charles Fisher = Prudence Wright 10 Jan 1774 at Horsley (Phillimore)
Their children were (all from the IGI) -
Martha 1774
Prudence 1779
Grace 1782, who married a Joseph Ottewell in 1801!
Charles 1784
Hannah 1787
Joseph 1790
Isaac 1795
Joseph 1795
Anne 1803
BTW, Charles Kerry notes that all the children of William Ottewell & Anne died in infancy. So it would seem that all the children that appear on the census with William & Anne, whether Blakey or Ottewell, could be 'foster' children.
Isaac Fisher turned out to be a red herring, even though an interesting character. He seems to have had a large number of children and three wives.
Charles bapt 7 March 1829 age 13
John bapt 1 June 1821 age 3
Joseph bapt 1 June 1821 aged 1
Prudence bapt 7 March 1829 age 6
Hannah bapt 7 March 1829 age 3
Elijah bapt 6 Nov 1831
Louisa bapt 2 Dec 1832
Mira bapt 19 April 1835
Samuel 24 Dec 1837
If correct, his wives were -
Mary Raynes, 2 April 1815 at Horsley
Sarah Rigley, 30 May 1822 at Duffield
Mary Ottewell, 14 Feb 1830 at Duffield
I had thought at first that Isaac Fisher had popped his clogs, and a still young Mary Ottewell Fisher might have married Blakey; but not so. He is still around in 1861, though a widower, with several grandchildren, via son Joseph.
Just to add to the complex mix, there is also an Isaac Ottewell around in 1841. Both he and Mary Ottewell are said to be children of John Ottewell & Hannah Cresswell (Oh no, not them again!) but these entries are IG LDS submissions.
So, I'm afraid until someone (not me at the moment) can set up camp in Derby RO, or their nearest FHS library, and transcribe the Horsley PRs, we are just going round in circles!
I do so like a challenge but I must admit, this one has got me beat for now!
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Hi Penna,
Thanks for all that work! It's a shame not to be able to solve the mystery, but maybe that information will be useful to solve someone else's question. Still waiting for certificates to arrive and hoping that there will be some useful information there.
Chilibear
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Not to worry, I enjoyed searching ;)
I look forward to hearing about the certificates.
Regards
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Certificates have arrived and open up more questions than they solve.
Birth certificate of Charles Blakey: born at 7 half minutes past 4 o'clock on 15 Jan 1845 (therefore the younger twin); no father's name given; mother: Mary Blakey, Horsley Woodhouse.
I am guessing that this makes Charles illegitimate - two reasons: there is no father and Mary does not have a maiden name, only Blakey.
Marriage certificate of Charles Blakey and Elizabeth Mitchell: married on 7 Mar 1870; both full age and living at Horsley Woodhouse; he was a bachelor and a nail maker, his father was Charles Hurst?, a labourer; she was a spinster and fwk, her father was Zephariah Buon?, a coalminer. The witnesses were Hugh Blakey and Ann Wood.
I do not think that it says Charles Hugh; the surname is normally given and Blakey is not there. Secondly the second name (Hugh/ Hurst) does not have any letters below the line, therefore cannot be Hugh. If they were illegitimate, it would make sense that they have their mother's name, not their father's.
It also looks like I have a problem with Elizabeth Mitchell, whose father's surname is not Mitchell, so may be she is illegitimate as well! I can find an Elizabeth Mitchell of the right age in Horsley Woodhouse on the 1851 and 1861 census's (Class: HO107; Piece: 2144; Folio 308, p. 9 and Class: RG9; Piece: 2508; Folio 99, p. 20) who is the daughter-in-law of Samuel and Elizabeth Wood (I assume that means step-daughter). They also have a daughter Ann Wood; she might be the witness.
The death certificate for Mary Blakey (1852 (A-M-J); Belper, Derbyshire; Vol. 7b; p. 251) states that she died on 15 May 1852 at Horsley Woodhouse, aged 38 years. She was the wife of William Blakey, labourer. The informant was a Sarah Ottewell. So it does not seem that this is the same Mary Blakey and I cannot find another who died between 1851 and 1861 in Horsley Woodhouse on Ancestry.
Any thoughts, anyone?
Chilibear.
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Hi, I am currently researching my buxton family tree and a member of my tree george buxton 1874 loscoe married a clara florence cresswell 1871, any info on my buxton familt tree? Thanks
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I'm sure there was also links to the woolleys aswel,sure I came across a marriage from a buxton to a woolley
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Patrisia passed away a few years ago. I don't know where all her research and information went to and her website is no longer active. Sorry.
Sue
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Aww ok so sorry to hear that
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I added a link to this in the Derbyshire Resources forum...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=625438.0 (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=625438.0)