RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: sarra on Wednesday 12 July 06 01:21 BST (UK)
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Well I don't know where to start here - perhaps I'm getting angry about nothing.
This is what happened to me.
I'm a member on the GR site and through Hotmatches, have found a few people researching my line. A few months ago I found a connection to one of my ancestors. I emailed them and we gave each other access to our Trees. I could see a few differences in our research. So I asked if they could help me sort it out. Well I never heard from them again. So I closed my Tree to them as they did to me.
Now I discover that some of the information that was on my Tree, has been entered by this person on the Rootweb.com World Project. My reason for putting it on the GR site was because you had some say in who you gave access to it. Seems I have been naive in thinking it would not be used outside this site. What I am annoyed about is the fact that this person never came back to me to help sort out our Ancestors - and that he has listed my family on this site. I'm not happy seeing my late mother-in-laws name on there. What options do I have?.
Sarra >:(
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I haven't got any advice but I just thought I'd send my sympathy. You have every right to be angry.
It never occurred to me that someone would do this. I would hate someone to do this to me.
I'm not sure that you would be able to remove or change this info on Rootsweb. I do hope you can!
FeeJay
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Have they supplied an email on their Rootsweb site? I managed to find a relative by contacting them by email through rootsweb.
Andrew
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Hi Sarra
The same thing has happened to me except the whole of my family tree is now on the RootsWeb.com World Project. I only came across it by accident when looking for possible matches for my ancestors. My first reaction was shock and then to think "it would have been nice to have been asked". If I had I would have turned down the offer of having my research put on the internet. I do feel that my work has effectively been hijacked but can't see what I can do about it.
The only consolation is that I have used other peoples websites to help with my own tree so perhaps others will benefit from seeing mine.
Regards Genna
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I really do think its inexcusable for people not to have the common courtesy to at least ask permission from the supplier of information before uploading it to the web for all to see. This has happened to me a couple of times and it always rankles.
cheers
Paul
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I was most surprised when clicking on a 'hot match' a while ago to be faced with myself!
It turned out that the lady who had put me on her tree is related, she had made contact with a cousin who I had given permission to use mine a couple of years ago, he had given her permission to use his... see where I'm going?
My first thought was indeed annoyance, then it occurred to me that I don't ask his permission to share my tree with anyone else so I am as liberal with his related section as he is with mine really, basically anything transferred to mine I assume ownership of and vice-versa.
I should add that I only keep about 100 names on my GR tree, just the direct lines where contact is most welcome and should a contact prove fruitful, they then get all the relevant info by e-mail and I ask them to be discreet with the living if applicable. If I get info back by e-mail which will be of interest to another relative, then I ask permission of the sender before sharing it.
I agree it would be courteous to ask first but in a place as public as GR I just don't think it's practical. If you had shared information with even half a dozen contacts over a period of time, it could be onerous to contact them each time you wanted to open your tree to someone else.
Sorry if I'm waffling, I do agree with you, but it's the nature of the GR beast, you have to share all or nothing. Although, if you specifically stated that you did not want your details published anywhere else, you might have some leverage if they ignored you.
Steph.
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I was most surprised when clicking on a 'hot match' a while ago to be faced with myself!
Genes Reunited do show the following in relation their family tree program:
Please remember to ask permission of living relatives you add to your tree.
You might wish to follow this up with Genes Reunited. They too surely have a responsibility to police their own system.
JULIAN
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I too have had bad experiences of GenesReunited. One person I gave all my research to put it on the internet within hours Including living people (which he did remove when I requested it) but what annoyed me the most was the fact that he was passing on my information without either telling me or passing on the 'new' relatives details to me. I only found out when they contacted me.
On a more positive note, I have also found some very good contacts who have mutually exchanged information and remained in touch.
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People have a curious attitude to information they glean from GR. If it's related even vaguely to their family, they can claim it as their own without so much as a by-your-leave. If we react by not putting more than a couple of names on GR, the whole concept of the site doesn't work. The only answer is not to give access to your tree, but to swap information by email. I've recently been researching a friend's tree, and found 2 people through GR who were distantly related to her through one line. The tree is not on the site because it's not mine. The first person got huffy when I told her I had several generations more than she had. She'd not been able to do it, so how had I? I explained how I'd worked it out and what my evidence was, and pointed her to a website where I've put the tree. I haven't heard from her again. The second person had also been stumped, and she has bombarded me with questions, as if I must give her all the data. It's all part of research, I guess.
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Thank you all for your kind words and advice - seems I'm not the only one to have it happen to.
I think I will contact this person on Rootsweb - for what it's worth. Also complain to GR about this person not asking before putting live people in his Tree. At least get it off my chest.
Sarra
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Hi All,
there is a very similar topic here:
Topic: it is MY family tree!!!!!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,1909.0.html
so I'll repeat what I said there:
Maybe it's the modern equivalent of, or progression from, collecting car numbers i.e. the collecting mania !
As kids we used to collect car numbers, then train numbers. Some went on to stamp collecting, or butterfly collecting, bird-spotting, cigarette cards and their equivalents, and modern kids collect pokemon and dragon-ball cards.
And "grown-ups" collect ................ names !!!
"My tree is bigger than yours",
"My tree goes further back than yours", etc, etc.
"Never mind where they come from,
as long as there is a connection (even a tenuous one) let's collect them !!!" :P
Bob
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You do have to keep a sharp eye on GR.I emailed some one who I thought had a connection suggested they look at my tree,imagine my suprise when two days later I appeared to have found hundreds of relies on all branches of my tree.Very upsetting.Gr must have removed them eventually but they never replied to my complaint.Now I am very careful who I give access to.
Susan
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People have a curious attitude to information they glean .................. The second person had also been stumped, and she has bombarded me with questions, as if I must give her all the data. It's all part of research, I guess.
This is the thing that really bugs me so much - the you must give it to me and a more or less constant nagging. In any other areas of research, people wait until the results are published (in whatever form) or one might share info with those close to it for their opinion. Again, if I were to use someone else's research, I would acknowledge it by reference in the appropriate way. I acknowledge, where appropriate, wherever and whenever I publish my FH research but many others seem oblivious to this standard courtesy.
Also, as Bob says, the 'train number collectors'. I'm not sure how many people I have in my tree - I don't bother to look. Some are italicised because I'm not as confident of them as of others. It would also vary depending on where I decided the cut off point would be. I would never include any living person (including me) in any tree that was publically available.
I prefer the life stories and local stories so can't fully understand the need for the largest tree in the world.
Gadget
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I don't have the full tree on GR, just my direct line and I only add another generation when I think it might be important or might give me some leads by adding someone. When someone makes contact with me I give them my web address, as that is public and anyone can look at it.
Frankly I have better things to do than keep updating trees everywhere. I have the one master tree which gets updated on my website fairly regularly!
Kerry
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Gr re living relatives .I had a problem with living relatives on Gr I first contacted the tree owner Who sent me a e mail telling me she was free to put on who she liked and was I silly enough to think this was the only person with this name.
So I contacted GR and asked for the name to be removed. less than an hour later the name had been removed.The owner was contacted by GR and told why they had removed the name.As far as I am Concerned this persons tree on GR is like a Halfpenny note book without any pages.==========zimba
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The family tree information across all my lines which I am willing to share stops at my grandparent's (or equivalent) generation. My parents and my own generations are scattered around the world and I do not necessarily know who is living or not - I am not prepared to take the risk.
There is one exception: a distant-ish cousin who is 103 years old! She is appears as "daughter" on any sharable tree info.
:)
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Sarra, I don't blame you for feeling angry. How ruuuuddde of the person that you contacted.
I haven't put my tree on certain web sites as I have heard stories of whole trees being copied - sites putting them onto discs in order to sell them etc. However, I have put my tree on GR, so really the same thing could happen. I think whichever site you choose to put your tree onto, it's out there on the world wide web and it becomes anyones property.
I know we don't own our ancestors but I do believe that we own the time and money that we spent on research. It's the research that is important, a copied tree is useless without any documentation or all the information that you have gained over the years through research.
People who copy trees only have a bunch of names and dates. I can't see that they would feel any connection to their ancestors. Also, who's to say the tree copiers are copying the right info? It's fantastic to make family connections (the reason I stated out in FH) but I wouldn't just take it for granted that Joe Bloggs was my GGGG Grandad just because Jo Bloggs(jnr) has a big tree on GR and tells me this is so ???
Someone on GR copied a side of my tree, not through me, but through a distant cousin who had access to my tree. This person has a connection to my family through her divorced husband??????? My worry is that anyone researching may contact this person, who has no research, instead of me :(
I think we all know it's the quality not the quantity :P 8)
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Wheeldon
That's the crux of the matter isn't it?
Are we in it just to collect names and get back to Adam or to find out how our ancestors lived through social and cultural history and then in turn feel we know them.
I have a feeling if it's the latter we don't just take other people's hard work without asking permission, and adding sources etc. Or am I being naive??
Kerry :-\
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Kerry - spot on in my book.
GR is rife with this - I used it to help a cousin with a really rare surname - and all her research showed up in 2 other places. Luckily I'd been aware of the plagerism, so we had left out a couple of crucual links - really highlighted how it was plagerism, as they didnt try and make contact whatsoever ....
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I've noticed that with certain trees that I have been given by various distant relatives, I have found mistakes that I have found evidence to prove they are mistakes and I always pass on the information to the originator (mostly gratefully received).
But it is interesting to see how many trees have popped up with the original mistake still in it.
When it has been easy to find the correct information I wonder why these people are not checking out the info like I do and coming to the same conclusion.
Easy answer is they just want a huge tree with no effort or research!!
Sad, because they are really missing out :-\
Kerry
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I keep my tree very basic on genes and information on living very limited and will only let people view my tree once i have verified there is a genuine match. But on the plus point Genes has been unbelievable in finding living relatives and close ones at that, i never new any thing about So sometimes passing information like this is worth the risk. I don't think I would have at least 40% of the people in my tree otherwise. Rootschat must count for 25% of people in my tree
Smeghead
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My reason for joining GR is to find genuine people researching my Ancestors and exchange information with them. My ancestors left their land of birth in 1853, they left parents and sibling behind. We are trying to find what happened to them. I have found people on GR who seem to have a connection to our family. Some of them are not intrested in helping you work out where they are all connected. This person who gleaned my research has attached my ancestor to where he thinks he should be. He maybe right - but this was the question I asked him to help me sort out. Obviously he can't be bothered.
Sarra
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Sarra, thats an aspect of folk [on GR] it seems .... personally I cant imagine why one would go to the trouble of registering, uploading a Tree and then not bother to respond to queries...
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I think there are many genuine people on GR (like us) who's sole ambition is to connect with a living relative and share information. However, there obviously must be some people on there whose sole ambition is to add to their tree, without doing research or putting their hearts into it. I bet most researchers would agree that it's not how far back we can get, it's how much information we can find about our ancestors, in order to bring them to life and to help break down some brick walls. Otherwise it's just dates and a name.
Name and date gatherers are missing the point entirely and in reality could just pick any name and date out of thin air. As they may as well have done if they have just copied a tree.
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Entirely agree Wheeldon :)
What worries me are the possible clandestine 'professional researchers' who might be trawling as well. Now that is unethical - but I suppose, if we put the stuff up, we only have ourselves to blame ???
Think little stories are the only way.
Gadget
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Perhaps I'll rethink how I present my tree on my website now!!!
Kerry :-\ :-\ :-\
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'My husband and I still can't believe after 9 years of searching we have finally got an answer to so many Green questions. Believe me at times it has been so frustrating, but without you putting your tree on the Genes site I don't believe I could have progressed. I have you to thank for this.'
The above is an extract from an email I received from a contact on Genes Reunited.
I'm all for sharing all of the info I have, although I don't allow every single contact to view my tree. I put all of my tree on the site, as often people who don't have a connection to my direct ancestors are related though a GG Aunt or something. ( the above was a GG Uncle)
I'm most interested in my direct line and I want to find out about as much info as I can about each individual but I also collect names, mainly to help me find more people connected to me who can provide me with those little bits of information that I can't find.
I love the internet and all of the information it provides me with - not only genealogy related - and I accept that in order to have access to all of this information, I have to add to it too.
Yes some people are thankless and abuse what's there, but the lovely emails I get like the one above more than make up for all of that.
Anita
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I have just had an email from someone who has found access to my family tree on tribal pages although it is passworded so has somehow deciphered it have emailed tribal pages and am changing password. if it happens again will be pulling it of tribal or privatise it
Jim