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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Derbyshire => England => Derbyshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: mcc on Wednesday 27 October 04 22:40 BST (UK)
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hi
Anybody with information on Cantrells of Ashover 1600's onwards please get in touch, and later in Sutton Cum Duckmanton, Calow and Brimington have some info, willing to pool resources.
MCC
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One of my ancestors was Israel Cantrill who married Ann Hole in Ashover in the late 1600s. The family then moved from this parish to that of North Wingfield (Smithymoor, Claylane and Sutton-cum-Duckmanton). I cannot find anymore information regarding Israel Cantrill in the Ashover parish records and wondered whether he came from a neighbouring parish. Have you any information?
Thanks!
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:) hi
I've have a little information on Israel of Ashover but cannot link him directly to my line as the records do not seem to be available to the best of my knowledge.
I think there was 7 Cantrell families in Ashover in the mid 1600's
William & Elizabeth Ward m 25th July 1663 which is the start of my line.
Thomas &Mary ?
Godfrey & Elizabeth Calton m 13 july 1664
John & Elizabeth Birches m 14 sept 1662
Samuel & Sara Brookes m 27 July 1664
Israel & Ann Hole m 1681
Edward & Elizabeth ?
These may or may not be descendants of one line going back one or two generations. If you would like any more info on my line drop me a personal message with your email address and I'll be in touch. I've been trying to link Israel into my research for ages having seen his details in N.Wingfield records and later generations in Sutton.
have a Good New Year
Mike
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Hi Mike,
Dont know if you can help or not but I have a Mary Cantrell marrying William Hancock in Chesterfield on 30 Jan 1820. As William came from Calow and you mentioned that you had some links to Calow, I wonder if you have any further information on Mary?
Mary died in 1840 in Whittington where the family had gone to live, but I have no other details re her parents or siblings.
If you an assist I would be very grateful
Best wishes
Jackie
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hi
sorry for the delay, I've not passed this way for ages, I've checked out your Mary married to William, and cannot find any definite solution, it's all if's and buts however if I get to the records office in the near future I see if I can find any extra details.
Mike
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Jackie :-))
May have some good news
still making assumptions but it's beginning to fit.
I read your other postings and noticed sunflower had listed Eliz? Bacon 20 and Mary Bacon 15
I believe I have these two within my research,
They are (if I'm right) the daughters of Samuel Bacon and Betty Cantrell,
Betty is the daughter of Joseph Cantrell and Hannah Tagg, her sister is Anne Cantrell who could be the mother of your Mary.
I found an entry on IGI for Mary 's bapt 26 oct 1880 sutton cum duckmanton mother Anne which would fit, please let me know if you have made any progress Mike
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Thank you very much for that Mike, yes it does seem a good possibility as Mary was supposed to be 39 on death in 1840. I tried to find Sutton cum Duckmanton in my A to z and its not listed. I take it it's not too far from Whittington?
Any other information you have got I would be most grateful to recieve
Many thanks again
Jackie
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Hi
Sutton cum duckmanton is an area of land from Calow to Duckmanton which takes in sutton scarsdale Hall. I have an old map which shows the area clearly let me know if you would like a copy
Mike
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Thank you Mike, yes please if you dont mind I would love a copy whenever its convenient. I will send you a pm with my email address
You mentioned Sunflower is interested in part of the same line, are her comments on the board?
Thank you again
Jackie
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Mike, I hope you are still coming to this site. My name is Debbie and I live in the U.S. I am interested in the William Cantrill and Elizabeth Ward that is part of your family. Did they by chance have a son named Joseph who was christened 23 Dec 1666 in Ashover Parish and came over here around 1682? Did your William have a brother named Richard who also came here around 1682?
Thank you,
Debbie Cantrell Cunningham
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Hi Debbie
Welcome to Rootschat
I notice that Mike hasn't been on this site for a few years now, but he may pick your message up.
I am also tracing Cantrill's / Cantrell's of Ashover. It's not the same line as yours, mine is the Ashover / North Wingfield mob.
It looks like William & Elizabeth had 4 children baptised at Ashover.
Joseph 23.12. 1666
Hannah 15.9. 1672
William 29.11.1674
Hellen 12.4. 1680
I can't see any earlier baptisms for a William or Richard.
Carol
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Hi Carol,
Thank you for the information on William and Elizabeth Cantrill! I had noticed that Mike had not been on this site in a while so I didn't know if I would get a response from him or not, but you never know so I'm glad that I posted my message. I didn't know this site existed until I found it yesterday!
Truth is we aren't sure what parish Richard Cantrill was from. It seems like the more info you find, the more questions you have. What we do know about Richard is that he lived in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and died beford 1753. We have found info that stated that he was an indentured servant to Captain William Smith, Master of the Bristol Merchant, that sailed from the the Port of Bristol and according to some of the passengers on the ship, arrived here the 12th month of 1682. From what I have found is that before 1752 the legal year started on March the 25th, so the 12th month in 1682 would have been February. Richard and his nephew Joseph Cantrill have never been found on any passenger list, but it's my understanding that for a short period of time indentured servants were not listed on passenger lists but this was changed due to adults and children being taken and put on ships, against their will. "The birth year of Richard was born in the early 1660s in Derbyshire, England. The estimated period of his birth has been establishing that he had reached his majority when he came to America in the 1680s. His shire of birth has been established from a petition that he submitted to John Blackwell, ESQ., Governor of the Province of Pennsylvania, in July 1689, stating that his nephew, Joseph Cantril had drowned in the Schuykill River, 10 May 1689 and that Joseph had older and younger brothers in Derbyshire, England. He posted a bond of one hundred pounds, which was considerable money at that time." "We know from the Heart Tax records of Derbyshire in the early 1660s that there were several Cantril families living in the shire. We know that Henry Cantrell was a parson at St. Alkmunds in Derby, instituted in 1712. Over the years, several descendants of the family have traveled to Derbyshire and searched for Richard's birth and parentage. In 1986 and 1987, a family researcher located a baptismal record of a Richard Cantril, son of Richard and Alice Cantril who was baptized 13 May 1666 in Bakewell Parish, Derbyshire. In the nearby parish of Ashover, we find where Joseph Cantrill, son of William and Elizabeth Cantrill was christened 23 December 1666. There is a record of a Richard and Mary Cantrill in Bakewell Parish in 1694 and 1697."
Is there records on line in England that can be searched from the U.S.? Who would we need to contact there to get iinformation? I have been looking and haven't found much. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks again for your help,
Debbie
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Carol,
I got so excited about your post that I forgot to ask about who your Cantrill/Cantrell line is!
Debbie
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Hi Debbie
There are far too many sites on Derbyshire to mention. I usually just put the parish name into Google to see what turns up. Here are a few useful sites
http://dustydocs.com/
http://www.genealogy-links.co.uk/html/derbys.html
http://www.derbysmarriages1538-1837.co.uk/search-result/1/
There are also transciptions of Parish Records that are available to buy on CD.
http://www.ancestralarchivesofderbyshire.com/index.php?cat=1&item=21
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DBY/ValNealCDs.html#NorthWingfield
Have you tried looking for any Cantrill wills? There is an index of Derbyshire wills on this site 1650 - 1750. They are indexed under Diocese of Lichfield & Coventry wills
http://www.staffsnameindexes.org.uk/StartPage.aspx?Mode=ShowIndex
Also some earlier derbyshire wills
http://wishful-thinking.org.uk/lichdb/index.html
My own Cantrell line is from Israel Cantrell who married Ann Hole in 1681 at Ashover. I have never found Israel's baptism, but I do have a copy of a will, which points to his parents being Thomas & Mary of Ashover. The problem is when you get this far back you have difficulty proving the connection and there seems so many Cantill's in Derbyshire.
Are you thinking that the Richard bapt in 1666 is the one that went to America?
Carol
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Carol,
Thank you for the list of websites, I'll print it out and see what I can find!
Yes, we think that it's a good possibility that this could be "our" Richard and I think that Richard's nephew, Joseph that drowned in 1689, could be the son of William and Elizabeth Cantrill.
I think I better share this site with one of the Cantrell researchers that been doing this for a while and has written a couple of books.
Do you live in England?
Debbie
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Hi Debbie
I'm not sure how much delving your researcher did, but looking at the information you've given, I am not convinced that Richard c 1666 is the same person who went to America in 1682. I think that Richard was the one who married Mary and had the following children at Bakewell - Alice 1697 (after his mother? ) Margaret 1699, Joseph 1701 & Margaret 1704.
Did your researcher make the connection between Richard & William being brothers?
Yes I am in the UK
Carol
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Here's another useful site
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~spire/Yesterday/index.htm
Carol
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Carol,
She is very thorough in her searching and gets documentation to back up the facts. People have been looking for Richard's parents for many, many years. Now she is going back and taking a second look at all the info that has been found. This is what she wrote "27 years ago, a Cantrell researcher made a trip to Derbyshire, England to find the parents of our Richard Cantrill....He came back with a baptismal paper where "A" Richard Cantrell (son of Richard and Alice Cantrell) were baptisting their son in 1666.....Warren dismissed it because he found "A" Richard Cantrell who married and was still living in Derbyshire...This Richard Cantrell who Warren was following was married to a Mary....And had a Joseph in 1701.....However, Richard Cantrill and Alice also had another son, Joshua in 1672 six years after their son Richard was born....Richard Cantrill and Alice also had a daughter named Ann.....looking at the ages of the Richard Cantrill who married Mary...when their children were born, I came up with the conclusion that this Richard Cantrill who married Mary would of most likely been born after the year of 1666....Sometimes things are right in front of our faces and we look passed it....I had already in my mind established that Richard was born between 1665 and 1668 and believed that Richard came here as a teenager...So, I am going to dive deeper into this, and it may well be that we had found the parents of Richard Cantrill 27 years ago...." So we are back to the drawing board and still looking for the "proof". I told her about this site so I'm hoping she will come here and look for info.
I'm the one looking for the connection between Richard and William being brothers and have only been looking for info for a few days now.
Debbie
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Hi Debbie
In the Bakewell register there seems to be 3 Richards, infact all the Cantrell baptisms are to a Richard.
Richard Cantrell married Anna Houson in 1628 they had children
Richard 1630 & Joseph 1632.
Richard (1630) married Alice ? and had the following children (although some of the baptisms just say Richard and the mothers name is not mentioned)
Anna 1658, Richard 1666, An 1670 and Joshua 1672.
Looking at the burial's there are 3 Richard's buried.
Richard buried 17.3. 1638 (this could be either the Richard born 1630 or his father)
Richard buried 15.1.1685 ( ditto ditto ditto )
Richard buried 3.11.1736 Drowned (which could be Richard born 1666)
Hope this helps
Carol
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Carol,
Thank you! The info might help, I'll pass it on to Sandy. Where are you finding all this info?
Debbie
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I have a transcription of Bakewell parish records on CD.
(along with a few others for Derbyshire, including Ashover)
Carol
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Hi Carol,
Based on the info you posted on the Richards of Bakewell, we can pretty much scratch Richard born 1666, son of Richard and Alice Cantrill as being our Richard. So, back to the drawing board!
I will continue looking for info on William and Elizabeth Cantrill in Ashover.
Thanks for all your help,
Debbie
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Good Luck, I will keep my eyes open for him when I am searching for my own Cantrell's
Carol
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Hi Carol,
We are still trying to find info on our Richard Cantrill. Would you be so kind as to look at your info and see if you can find any info on Joseph Cantrell the son of Richard Cantrell and Anna Houston? Joseph was born 13 May 1632 at Bakewell and buried 15 Sep 1696 at Bakewell. Richard Cantrell and Anna Houston was married 11 June 1628 in Bakewell.
Thank you,
Debbie
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Hi Debbie
Sorry no other information given on the entries for Joseph Cantrill
Carol
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Carol,
Thank you for checking.
Debbie
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Israel Cantrell's of Ashover are on my tree too.
Israel's wife Anne Hole bpt 1661 is sister to my Frances Hole bpt 1670 who married Thomas Taylor 1691 and
Israel Cantrell mar Mary Hopkinson 1716 of my extended Hopkinson family
Valerie
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Hi Carol, I am a descendent of Israel Cantrill/Cantrel and Ann Hole who married on 24 June 1681 in Ashover, Derbyshire. I have Israel born on 19 January 1660/61. Israel died on 29 February 1748 at Holmgate, Derbyshire, England. Holmgate is very close to Ashover, but may be in the parish of North Wingfield, Derbyshire.
Israel's descendents (my family tree) went on living in the Holmgate area which is in the parish or North Wingfield.
I was really interested Carol in that you had a copy of a will and would be very appreciative if you could either send a copy or transcribe it. I also think I may have attributed the wrong set of parents for Israel so I was very interested in your notes.
I will have a look at the web sites you have sent to Debbie and see what I can find out!
cheers, marp
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Hi Valerie, Israel Cantrill married Mary Hopkinson on 1 July 1716 in North Wingfield, Derbyshire. They are my direct ancestors. I have no information on Mary Hopkinson except for the fact of her marriage date. Could you send more information please? Or perhaps point me in the direction where I can find it?
Thanks, marp
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Morning Marp
If you send me a PM with your email address I will send you what I have on the family.
Carol
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I have been working on the Cantrells of Ashover in relation to the Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire FTDNA Project on facebook with a vested interest, as my Hole and Hopkinson families were in Ashover in the 17th century and married into the Cantrell family.
Richard C (nephew Joseph) who went to the US is not from Ashover. There are two Joe baptisms 1666 son of Wm and Eliz and 1669 son of Ed and Eliz. Both had only one brother. Nor is Richard likely to be from Bakewell or Hartshorne.
With a lot of help from the will of John Cantrell, myner of Fallgate, Milltown, Ashover will 1715 probate 1717 the Israel Cantrell tree becomes much clearer.
Sister Rachel H___ (Huntt/Hunt?)
nephew Sam son of Rachel
niece Dinah dau of bro Israel
nephew John Calton
John son of bro Israel
Israel son of bro Israel
exec bro Israel
wit Thos Hopkinson, Jeremiah Higginbottom, Charles Bourne
Hearth Tax Ashover 1662-1670 Thomas Cantrell 1 hearth
Thomas (bur 1675) mar Mary
children
1657 Rachel mar ? son Sam
1660 Abigail mar Philip Calton children 1686 Ann, 1690 Geo, 1692 Sarah, 1694 Phil, 1696 John
1661 Israel mar Ann Hole children 1683 Israel (mar Mary Hopkinson), 1686 John, 1693 Dinah (mar John Lynam), 1702 Rachel (mar John Marriott)
John bur 1717
Sarah bur 1671
Aaron bur 1673
To take this further it would be extremely helpful for a UK male Cantrell to test their YDNA! Any volunteers?
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Thank you for the information on Richard C and his nephew Joseph. I will pass it on!
Debbie
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Hi, Both you and I are related to the Israel Cantrill who ,arried Ann Hole. Their daughter Rachel Married Samuel Hurt and gad their son Thomas was baptised at Ashover on October 21, 1683
These Ashover records are quite legible and the name is HURT unless my bad eyesight is playing up!
Another son Samuel Hurt was baprised North Wingfield, on 12 July 1685 Again spelling is Hurt
Cheers, Marp
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Fabulous, great find! So wonderful to hear from you Marp xx
I have been trying to research Richard C and his nephew Joseph without success. They are invisible in records that are available. This leads me to believe that their family didn't register events (these were turbulent times in England, Civil War, religious dissent etc) or the records have not survived.
For example the early Wingerworth registers are damaged. I found a few very early Richard Cantrell's there on familysearch.org Wingerworth 1539-1666 (reigns of Henry XVIII and Queen Mary) https://ogindex.org/search
bpt Godfrey son of Richard
bpt John son of Richard
Richard godfather to Ellen Beardow
bpt Raphe son of Richard, godfather John
and
1666 burial Jaune wife of Richard
I am slightly puzzled that the Richard who went to the US was a brick maker. Not to say there aren't any but I haven't come across any brick makers in Derbyshire so far. Berkshire was a big brick making county in the 17th century and the Cantrell's of Hartshorne had connections there https://www.hartshorne.org.uk/Content/_Download/History%20Old%20Manor%20House_Upper%20Hall.pdf
There is a John in Hartington in 1621 giving Aid to His Majesty King Charles I. A much later bankruptcy report in the Derby Mercury 23/2/1797 seems to connect the Cantrells of Hartington and Wetton/King's Newton
manufacturers of cotton wool into twist
Thomas the younger of Hartington
Daniel of Wetton cotton mfr
Ralph of Hartington cotton mfr
Definitely need some DNA!
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Designer Jeans, are you by chance related to Richard C and his nephew Joseph? Has any male Cantrells there done a Y-DNA test? We really don't know where he was living. We know Joseph had siblings in Derbyshire. Richard stated this when he received permission to handle his nephew's estate. I had previously written about this in an earlier message to this group. My brother did a Y700 DA test through Family Tree DNA and I have done one through Ancestry. I really appreciate any info you find.
Thanks,
Debbie
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Reply #33
I am slightly puzzled that the Richard who went to the US was a brick maker. Not to say there aren't any but I haven't come across any brick makers in Derbyshire so far.
Bricks could be made wherever there was plentiful clay - which occurs in Derbyshire in the Coal Measures, i.e. amongst the rocks which surround coal seams, some distance eastwards from Ashover and Bakewell. They were heavy to transport, so tended to be made where they were needed, sometimes using temporary kilns.
Bricks had become fashionable. As well as new buildings, they were being used to replace wattle & daub in existing timber framed construction. Better houses in the Peak and coalfield areas had been constructed from the stone available there but lesser buildings could now use brick to "modernise" their walls, and clay tiles in place of thatch.
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Hi,
The will of John Cantrill the miner has been invaluable for sorting out relationships with Israel Cantrill born around 1660/61 who is my direct ancestor.
We know from John Cantrill's will that Israel is his brother. Israel born about 1660/61. John Cantrill and Elizabeth Birkes are the parents pf his siblings so i am assuming they are Israel's parents too. John Cantrill and Elizabeth Birkes were married in Ashover on 14 September 1662. Their marriage certificate indicates both were of Ashover. Elizabeth was certainly born there of John there is some doubt.
We have something of a mystery here in that Israel's baptism cannot be found so far. He was probably born prior to the marriage of father John and wife Elizabeth Birkes. Has he a different mother? Was he baptised by a Dissenting cleric and the baptism not registered?
Who is John Cantrill the father of Israel? We know that the 1670 Hearth Tax Records indicate a John Cantrill of Ashover had one Hearth. One piece of information which may be speculative is that he was born in Repton about 1640 his father also being John and his mother an Ann Brookes.
The family tree still needs work!
Any information would be welcome.
Thanks, marp
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Hi Molly C
I know nothing about architecture, building or bricks in 17th century Derbyshire! However I have been researching in the area for years and can't recall coming across a brick maker before. I could find next to nothing on DRO searching by 'brick", this on NA https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/4a2b8ec6-c19c-40a1-af98-8ec6a1c46d7e and more generally https://www.heritagecrafts.org.uk/craft/brick-making/#:~:text=Historically%2C%20the%20clay%20would%20be,the%20shape%20of%20the%20brick. also https://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/site-elements/documents/pdf/environment/conservation/buildingmaterialsadvice/stone-slate-roofs-guidance-for-owners-of-historic-buildings.pdf From which I deduce that whilst brick making may have been carried out in Derbyshire it was rarely documented?
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Hi marp
John Cantrill's will 1717 mentions his brother Israel and his sister Rachel. Israel's baptism hasn't been found but Rachel is the daughter of Thomas and Mary not John and Ann
Children of Thomas
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_queries/6874baf2b620e00cb92c344a?locale=en
Children of John
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_queries/6874bbceb620e00c8c31a039?locale=en
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xracer - have sent you a PM
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Hi, I am now really puzzled. I have just checked the baptismal record of John Cantrill bapt 8 November 1663 in Ashover parents John and Elizabeth..
His will states quite clearly my brother Israel.. my sister Rachel.
The names on the will of John Cantrill which I have just read again on FindmyPast fit very well my view that John and Elizabeth were the paretns of both Israel and rachel.
More work is required
marp
I do not find the sane fit with father Thomas Cantrill?
I have looked on Familysearch and FindmyPast.
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Ashover parish register goes from 1622-1623 then there is a gap until 1653
We don't know when John Cantrell (will 1717) was born or baptised.
What we have is the baptism of Rachel dau of Thomas and Mary bpt 2/2/1656/7 and Abigail dau of Thomas and Mary bpt 1/10/1660 both Ashover.
John's 1717 will mentions my sister Rachel and his nephew John Calton. Abigail mar Philip Calton.
It's possible the John bpt 1653 son of John and Ann was bur in 1673 https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/623a0f2af493fd482ae57444/john-cantrill-burial-derbyshire-ashover-1673-06-05?locale=en
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Reply #37
Brickmaking may have been carried out in Derbyshire
If Richard learned his trade in Derbyshire he was more likely to have been resident in the east of the county.
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That's a very good point, thank you Molly
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Hi,
John Cantrill was Baptised in Ashover on 8 November 1663. He was the son of John and Elizabeth. It also made sense as he was the eldest son born after the marriage of John and Elizabeth and so named after his father.
I agree John is a pretty common name and likely to crop up in many families. Just look it up and you will find it.
Basically your argument is because you found a baptism for Rachel with different parents than the known baptism of John (son of John and Elizabeth"). I do not wish to be too argumentative but both you and I need more evidence - proof has not been established..
Rereading John Cantrill's will it is quite obvious Rachel married someone called Hurt - no sign of a Hunt, it is an 'r". If you look at baptism records you see the same thing not Hunt but Hurt. I knew a Hurtt family when I was growing up in Derbyshire....
More work - both of us have relied on one naptism not two and it is not enough.
Cheers, Marp
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Hi marp
Additional information is hard to come by. There is
burial Ashover 5/6/1673 John son of John Cantrill of Woodthorpe
burial Ashover 17/7/1695 Thomas of the parish of North Wingfield
burial Ashover 20/1/1704 Elizabeth wife of John of Fallgate (wife of John the myner?)
DRO 25/3/1707 lease by the Duke of Shrewsbury to Israel Cantrill yeoman 1/3 part of 2 messuaes and 54 acres 26 perches at Stretton for 21 years £9 6s 8d pa
I cannot find a burial or marriage for Rachel bpt 1656 dau of Thomas and Mary (if she didn't marry Sam Hurt)
Do you have any thoughts on 'nephew John Calton' from the 1717 will?