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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: Jalkatz on Sunday 09 July 06 10:20 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone,
Would you advise me on what to do on a first trip to records offices, graveyards, etc? I am planning to go to Cumbria in the school holidays. The main names on my tree are Watson, Simpson, Ostle and Renwick. Places, Alston, Whitehaven, Newton Arlosh, Holm Cultram (but so many other towns too!). I can see that it would be possible to be so bogged down by possibilities that you actually achieve nothing at all....
I really am new at this and I don't even know what to ask for in a records office... So, any advice - and please don't underestimate the lack of knowledge here! :-[
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Hi Jakatz
This link is for the Cumbria County Council Archives
http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/archives/default.asp, you will find lots of useful information on this page.
My advice for a first visit is take notes of what exactly you are looking for, take copies of relevant family trees with details of dob, death, baptisms etc. There is nothing worse than getting there, looking for a person and finding you haven't go the right info to help you.
And enjoy your visit!
Kerry
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No pens allowed in archives and record offices, so make sure that you have a decent supply of pencils.
No bags are usually allowed either. I always take absolute minimum of valuable stuff, but if you need a reader's ticket you will need some ID with you - driving license is usually OK. I put my purse and keys in a small bum bag (hate the things but they have their uses!) and keep it with me all the time. My note-book and notes go into a clear plastic wallet so that I don't lose any stray bits of paper.
As Kerry says, always make sure that you have a list of what you are looking for so that your search is focussed.
And definitely enjoy!
Nell
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Hi Jalkatz,If you are looking up Births Marriages and Deaths at the Record Office,its also a good idea to keep a note book that is just for that,so you have a record of what you have already checked.And keep your old lists so you can see what you did or didn't have time for next time you are planning a visit.
Good Luck+Happy Searching!
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Thanks all, pencils, no bags... hm, I'd have cocked-up straight away! :) As for births, marriages and deaths; is that time well-spent, given that I can internet search for those, or are there other things more important? Another thing; do you want loads of cash in there - can you buy certs in there or just copies? Sorry if I'm asking qs that are answered in that link. I'll have a look at it now...
Do you take your folders in or just loose paper with basic details?
Exciting!
Jackie
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Jackie
I think most Records Offices would not let folders in. I just take a shorthand notepad with the questions I want to ask written down and any notes I need, family trees etc on loose sheets.
Apparently it is to stop people walking off with valuable material (as if we would!)
Don't forget the BMDs before 1837 can be found in the parish registers - always a great thing to look at, I have found some fantastic comments added in by various clerks over the centuries.
Not sure about buying certificates there, I think (but I am sure someone will correct if wrong) that you can only get them from the GRO.
Kerry :)
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You can't get certificates as they are only available from Register Offices. You are right to concentrate on other things. Look for parish records - they may have parish transcripts on open shelves with an index so you can whip through those fairly quickly. If you find a baptism, marriage or burial then you can ask to look at the film of that parish. You can usually take photocopies of the entry. Have you booked a film reader? They get very busy. You need to book a place a couple of weeks in advance usually.
Monumental Inscriptions are very useful too. They will also have directories listing inhabitants and often census index books too - though again now that is all on the internet you may want to ignore those.
Try to decide which family you will concentrate on and do not be sidetracked! Easier said than done.
Many have a card index of surnames and places and they show what information they have. School lists etc. There is a wealth of information there but it can be overwhelming so take it easily and try to plan two visits so that you know what you are doing the second time!
I should ring Carlisle to check which area office holds the information that you want.
Good luck
Andrea
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Thanks for that link, Kerry. It's very useful. I've printed off a few pages and can email them for more detailed info later. And <cough> how could I have 'forgotten' they'd have pre-1837 BMDs there. Trouble is, the more I think about it, the bigger the whole thing becomes; do I go to graveyards? Do I go to records offices? Quaker records; where are they? At most, I'll only have a few days...
Jackie
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Now we haven't even touched graveyards!!!!
Can be exciting and rewarding, however be warned because I have found a lot of my relatives were obviously too poor to afford gravestones.
However the few I have found have been well worth it. I generally try to make a list of the people on my tree who are likely to be buried at a particurlar graveyard before I visit so that I know who I might be looking for.
And I don't know about you, but I always take a tissue, I'm a bit of a softie! ::)
Kerry :)
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Yipes!! A film reader?! I'll do that, Andrea (thank you) but before I can find out the area record offices, I guess I still need to decide which rellies I'm hunting... What criteria would you use to decide which family strand to concentrate on; those where you've had most success so far, or those cyber-brick-walls? The more I think about it, the more mind-blowing it becomes... Jackie
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I should choose one where you are likely to have some success! If they stayed in the same village for generations then you can flesh out a tree very nicely in one visit and learn a lot about them. Brick walls might be better left until you know how to use the system. However, if you have people from a village that is not on the IGI then use the time to look at the parish register - it may be your only chance!
Andrea
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You can't get certificates as they are only available from Register Offices ...
... however, regarding marriages, the certificates from GRO are (first or second) transcriptions from what appears in the marriage register. A copy from the marriage register will cost you about 50p at a Records Office.
Most Records Offices have lockers in which to keep your possessions.
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I did my first visit to a records office two weeks ago and have now been 3 times.
My advice would be -
- Don't be duanted!
ASk for help - the staff at Lancs record office are very keen to offer help
- Allow lots of time!!!
Go with a plan of what you want to achieve and try not to get sidetracked
- A retractable pencil is a must - no need to sharpen!
I hope you enjoy your trip .............I don't want to go to work anymore.............would rather go to the records office!!
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Hi all,
I just wanted to share my own experience with you.I have just come back from a long anticipated visit to Carlisle Records Office and had a wonderful time there. The staff are brilliant and fall over themselves trying to help and make sure you can find your way around.
I phoned them previously and was told I did not need to book a place, though I know some offices require that you do.
Once again I want to express my gratitude to everyone there for making it a memorable visit for me. I am sure you will enjoy yourself just as much, Jallcatz
Regards
Jane
PS They also have a refreshment room with a coffee machine and small snacks on sale. Plus, they provide pencils in the search room in case anyone forgets to bring one. Now I call that service!
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All good advise. I have been to the Carlisle records Office on a number of occasions and they have been very helpful.
They have also got a list of wills in Date and Surname order. They are really easy and quick to look through. You can get a photo-copy of any that you think may be relevant. I have had quite a few and the information has been invaluable.
However every copy of anything has to be paid for so take plenty of change.
Judy
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What a brilliant lot of advice - I've been delaying visiting records offices etc. not knowing what to do and would have made a real goof of myself! Can't wait to get up to Cumbria and do a bit of padding out of info. Thanks for posting up the question! :D :D
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I went to Carlisle for the first time at Easter and I agree wholeheartedly with everything everyone has said. They are so helpful and kind and really go the extra mile for you.
I spent £20 on photocopies but found all my weddings deaths and christenings for two families who were from Carlisle.
I also went to the library in the Lanes Shopping Centre and got loads of newspaper notices from the dates I got at the records office. I photocopied them too!
Anna x
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Oh, thank you all so much for your helpful suggestions. It seems such a mammoth task, sitting here thinking about it. I get the impression that the thing to do is be very organised before you go (plenty of pencils!) and then get there and just enjoy it.
I assume most of you must be like me and have ancesters dotted all over Cumberland? If so, what made you decide on a particular strand of your family (having taken account of Andrea's advice to search where there are good chances of success), or particular records office? Or, having seen so many comments on this thread and others, about how good the staff are in Carlisle, it doesn't seem a bad idea to just go there and ask them who I should search?
Jackie
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Main advice - DON'T PANIC!
I have become quite a regular at the Lancs RO over the past year, but remember well being daunted by all that stuff to search through. I have visited a couple of other ROs and the setup is pretty well the same in all - friendly.
The whole point of the record office is, after all, to let people find the records that they need.
Check the opening times before you go. Hours can vary from day to day. The LRO open till 20:30 each tuesday, but they only open one saturday a month.
You need some ID to get yourself a reader's ticket (free), but this is usually accepted at other record offices without question. Websites will make things like this clear.
There are normally lockers to hold items you are not allowed to take in with you.
There's usually a paper index to heavily used records like parish registers. Just look up the place, and the index tells you what records are available, and the reference number under which they are filed. Most registers will be on microfilm or microfiche.
The readers for these vary from place to place, but the principles are the same wherever. Someone will be happy to show you (usually the hard part is finding the "On" switch).
County record offices usually have plenty of readers available, but some smaller places such as libraries may need a booking. The RO in Chester hold your reader's ticket hostage in return for a film reader; at the LRO you just sit down at the nearest unused one.
Associated with the reader is a placeholder, such as a block of wood. You place this in the drawer where you removed a film or fiche from. This means that if someone else is looking for that film, they know where to look, and helps you put the thing back in the right place when you have finished.
If you ask for help, staff, and even other researchers, are happy to provide it. We've all been through it in the past! I've had some excellent suggestions for documents worth looking at when I've been flagging. After a couple of visits you'll end up giving others advice!
As many have mentioned, try to be organised. I make a "to do" list, and tick things off as I do them. I also write comments like "not found" when I have searched without success, so I don't go over things yet again.
I happen to use a laptop to input and keep records. It's then only a single transcription between the document in the record office and my permanent copy. I've never had a problem taking it into the searchroom, and the Lancs RO even provide a wireless internet connection for free. I've always something to type notes on, though I still occasionally need a pencil to fill in the request slip for some document not on the open shelves.
When you find a relevant record, write down everything that might be relevant in future, such as witnesses for a marriage. You might find later that they are relatives and you will already have some idea where they were living.
Use you time for things which are difficult or impossible over the net. I can look up censuses on Ancestry from work, so am unlikely to need those when at the RO. Some records are also available at my local library, so I can get those another time.
Where there are transcripts or indexes, use them. The ease of reading a printed book rather than ancient handwriting! Someone gave up their time just to help people like you.
Use things like the IGI beforehand to prepare areas of study. There's much more on the original baptism record than the IGI, and this will usually let you figure out whether it is relevant or not.
....and if you wear them, TAKE YOUR READING GLASSES! Some of the print can be pretty small, and in older records, difficult to decipher even with them on.
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I got round to Whitehaven RO on friday, and as expected, they were a nice lot.
I started looking for the baptism of my ggg grandfather, which had been flagged up by the IGI at St Bees. The microfilm copy of the registers was VERY difficult to decipher. Though most of his entry could be made out, parts were too black to see anything. Some pages just looked like pictures of crinkly black leather.
What I could make out was the placename - Bankend. I asked at the desk whether they knew of such a place. The nice man leapt out of his seat, went to the shelves and pulled down a transcription of the registers, checked that someone else agreed on the placename, then went to the map cabinet and pulled out the relevant 6" sheets. Walking back with the second sheet, he pointed out Bankend Quarry. The transcription provided another magic word - father's occupation - mason. I now know where my 4xGreat Grandfather lived and worked in 1793!
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They sound really helpful.
Working in a RO sounds like my ideal job. Helping people with history all day! ;D ;D
Kerry
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Hi andrewalston, was just reading your message before last and would like to say that the peeps at Lancashire Record Office were very helpful when I went there for the first time earlier on this year. I also went to the Dorset Record Office when I was down there in June and can also highly recommend them. Am going to the Cheshire Record Office for the first time soon, has anybody been there before, what are the people like there please?
Thanks
Anna
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Hi there, kena,
I have been to Chester RO several times and they are great there, very helpful. I had a bit of a mix-up once when I reclaimed my CARN card, someone else had taken it by mistake when they handed in the wrong place marker. The staff not only gave me a letter explaining the case to the RO I next planned on visiting, they rang up to make sure I would be admitted.
And they are always ready to help with queries. Mine as a newbie visitor were sometimes very silly, but they never even twitched a lip!
Hope you enjoy the trip, they have a map on their website to show you how to get there, if you want any more information please PM me
Regards to you and everyone else
Jane
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Hi Jane, Thanks very much for the info, am really looking forward to going and have plenty to keep me busy as usual.
Anna
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Hi I know this is an old entry, I have great interest in Bank End Quarries.
There were 2, one Red Stone or St Bees Stone and a ordinary stone Quarry. My G/Grandmother lived there in 1851 before marrying my G/Grandfather John Kitchen. I also took digital photos of a later 7 year, lease by another member of my G/Grandmothers family.