RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: sarra on Sunday 09 July 06 03:02 BST (UK)
-
I have come across a few of my ancestors on the 1851 Census. In the column where it says Occupation is listed Annuitant. The ancestors in question were Widows. Could someone please explain what this means.
Sarra
-
It means they were receiving a sum of money from an estate or an insurance pay out. For example in a will it may say " I leave my wife anannual sum of 10 pounds to be paid her in 6 monthly portions of £5 each 6 months.
From the dictionary for Annuitant One that receives or is qualified to receive an annuity.
And from the dictionary for Annuity The annual payment of an allowance or income.
The right to receive this payment or the obligation to make this payment.
A contract or agreement by which one receives fixed payments on an investment for a lifetime or for a specified number of years.
Hope that helps and shows you how to find the information for yourself
Rob
-
Thanks for that Rob,
I understood what a Annuitant meant, what I was not too sure of was this. Like my ancestors I have dug up have not been wealthy or for that matter had anything of value to leave. I just wondered where the money came from to pay to their Widows. Perhaps my ancestors were not as poor as I thought. Like back in those days they did not have a Pension from the Government. Did they??.
Sarra :)
-
No not at all. YOu say they were poor? What profession did the husbands take. What time period are we talking about? Where in the country? All these points can have a bearing.
-
Rob, Back again - In my first post I mention 1851 Census - so that time frame.
The first Widow was living with her son and family in Lambeth, Surrey. Her son's occupation was Painter (I presume as in house painter) his wife and daughter were Boot Binders.
The second Widow was living in the household of her niece and family in Lambeth, Surrey. The niece's occupation was Laundress her husband's Lighterman. So I'm thinking the Widows husbands were from the Working Class. Perhaps I should try and look for Wills - that may tell me more. A son & daughter from these two households married and migrated to Australia in 1862.
Anymore thoughts?.
Sarra
-
I am just heading to work but when I get back if you can supply me with a few more names I will search the 1841 census for you and see whats showing there
Rob
-
Hello Rob, Apologies for the time it has taken to reply to your kind offer.
If you could please find on the 1841 Census - Thomas Edwards born abt 1779 Marlborough Wiltshire, England. He married a Elizabeth Peters in 1796 in Wiltshire. They had a son Thomas born 1811 Wiltshire. I can find the son and his family on the 1841 census living Lambeth, Surrey.
Someone found a Elizabeth Edwards on the 1841 Census she was a patient in the Somerset Hospital in Froxfield - I don't know if she is mine but could be. I have (my) Elizabeth Edwards on the 1851 Census living with her son in Lambeth Surrey - she is listed as a widow.
Perhaps her husband was deceased before the 1841 Census were taken.
Hope you can understand all of this.
Sarra
-
hi all. I am watching with interest your comments on Annuitants as I have come across this also and I thought my ancestors where poor. I am just following up that my widow may have worked for someone with money ???Good luck :D
-
I also have an annuitant in my tree - widow of an ag lab.
Perhaps there was some money from a previous better-off generation that paid for an annuity?
Diana
-
I think the choice for folks when retired was to put pauper or annuitant - and they didn't want to tell the world they were paupers - I have disproved too many things told or written by ancestors to assume that what is on the census must be correct.
Alternatively - although in the 20th century - my grandmother bought a life annuity - she paid 1 shilling a week for many years. I don't think it was worth very much when she eventually received it, but it was an annuity
Trish
-
Trish the way to prove that is to look at the verseer's books. If they are receiving or have applied for poor relief then I would agree but having transcribed numerous wills of Ag Labs I can tell you they are shrifty and save money. One of my own went from Ag lab to owning/leasing over 200 acres so don't discount it
Rob
-
babyboomer Wher would I find verseers books and what is ag labs?
-
Hi Rob
I've learnt not to discount anything ;D in my family research - I have found a number of folks in almshouses also specifing annuities or independent means and have trouble believing that they all fall into this category.
My grandmother (with the annuity) used to save money when living on a very small govt pension - so I do understand that folks can be very thrifty.
Baby boomer - Ag lab is an agricultural labourer - I would also like to know what a Verseer's book is - I haven't heard the term before.
Trish
-
Hello
Verseer's should be "Overseer's" and the overseer was responsible for allocating parish poor relief (a tax on the members of the parish and paid to the very poor, ususally those who couldnt work for some reason i.e early version of benefits). For more info a google search on the Poor Law will tell you more. The system changed in 1834 with the Poor Law Amendment Act.
These records are probably kept by the individual parishes if they still exist or they may now be at the county records offices.
acceber
-
Thanks for that Rob,
I understood what a Annuitant meant, what I was not too sure of was this. Like my ancestors I have dug up have not been wealthy or for that matter had anything of value to leave. I just wondered where the money came from to pay to their Widows. Perhaps my ancestors were not as poor as I thought. Like back in those days they did not have a Pension from the Government. Did they??.
Sarra :)
Sarra, have a look at this link about Business Strategies. I googled "Annuitant Old English" and then looked at "The Making of the English Middle Class" An Annuitant (http://content.cdlib.org/xtf/view?docId=ft8489p27k&chunk.id=d0e3546&toc.id=d0e1714&brand=eschol) could have been a poor person borrowing a little bit of money and then making regular payments until they died.
-
Thanks for that Rob,
I understood what a Annuitant meant, what I was not too sure of was this. Like my ancestors I have dug up have not been wealthy or for that matter had anything of value to leave. I just wondered where the money came from to pay to their Widows. Perhaps my ancestors were not as poor as I thought. Like back in those days they did not have a Pension from the Government. Did they??.
Sarra :)
Sarra, have a look at this link about Business Strategies. I googled "Annuitant Old English" and then looked at "The Making of the English Middle Class" An Annuitant (http://content.cdlib.org/xtf/view?docId=ft8489p27k&chunk.id=d0e3546&toc.id=d0e1714&brand=eschol) could have been a poor person borrowing a little bit of money and then making regular payments until they died.
I have come across a few of my ancestors on the 1851 Census. In the column where it says Occupation is listed Annuitant. The ancestors in question were Widows. Could someone please explain what this means.
Sarra
-
I have just joined rootschat and have read Posts on Annuitant. Wish I could answer your questions. My question is: Are there RECORDS that hold the answers?
Somehow I don't think Wills are the answer or the Annuitant would have to wait until their GIVER died.
One person in my Genealogy group told me.
Firstly. A system was set up where if a husband was maimed or killed in a war then he if he was maimed or she if he was killed would receive help in the way of money and therefore one of them became an annuitant.
Secondly: People who could afford to, donated money somewhere for this purpose.
There were certainly a lot of wars going on in 1800s and huge numbers of casualties.
In my case. My Annuitant was an unmarried mother of one child and the fathers name was not put on her child,s birth certificate. He was born 1879. A big brick wall I think but I will plug away and I hope you others do too. Let us know how you get on.
Rose.
Rose
-
Hi
Just joined the link. I have a female relative (widow) 1881 down as Annuitant. Her husband was a Durham Coal Miner. Does anyone know if this annuity would come from her husband's employers?
Mo
-
I have an ancestor who was male and aged 66 in 1851 and was a former ag lab who was an annuitant.
-
Hi
I've got on the 1851 census of an ancester who was a 70 year old widow in Shepton Mallet Annuitant of £28 arising out of I think household something.
Any ideas?
-
I think it's "arising out of freehold property"
Which to me means it came from rents paid by someone, to an estate, for property which may have been left to one member of a family with the proviso that the annuity had to be paid to another person during their (the annuitant's) lifetime.
Even today, with superannuation, there are some schemes which a few years ago, you could take out which give an annuity (here in Australia) though currently I don't think that option is available.
Dawn M
-
Thanks Dawn
Amazing what a fresh pair of eyes can see. ::)
Thanks for the explanation too
-
From reading quite a few Wills lately, I have found that often the benefactors were left property which appears to be rented out. The monies from such rents are awarded in these Wills as a regular annuity to the benefactor. The Will usually contains many provisos to govern the Estate in the event that the original person is unable to receive the benefit. Such things as future marriages, lack of offspring, and even death, may be anticipated in the Will.
I have found servants and friends are mentioned in ancient Wills. This would indicate that a annuity may not necessarily have been derived from family. I recommend developing a background in reading Wills from the 'County of interest' and preferably a similar time period. Often Wills become available to read online for free (Ancestry.com), or through other researchers. Ask nicely and be willing to share!
-
A lot of widows annuity's would have been paid by a friendly society.
http://www.historyshelf.org/shelf/friend/03.php