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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: matilda1973 on Saturday 08 July 06 16:59 BST (UK)
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i wonder if anyone can help me find Angelina Orchard,
she married James Holland some time before1899 i have her down on 5 birth cert as Angelina Holland formally Orchard mother and 4 baptisms,
my problem being i cant find a marriage for her and james or any trace of her before her Children, she went by the name Lina.
i did find a marriage for James Holland to a Caroline Orchard nov 1895 taunton somerset but i can find no trace of her before that,
there children were Henry, Beckie,Micheal, Britannia, Thomas, Joseph,John and Edward born between 1895 and 1920
heres hoping Louise
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Hi Louise
Have you found the family on the 1901 census ??? If so, then do please post the details ...................
Also, can you list the names, birthdates and birthplaces of the known children ............... it might give us a better idea of what to look for.
Best wishes
Casalguidi
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Hi Lou , deb again
I just can't resist looking for the Penfolds/Orchards/Holland /James etc ;D
just did a quick look for your Angelina, nice name although I have never come across it in our extended family.
I did find a 'Lena' orchard on the 1881 census living with her mum and dad.... henry and Mary Jane and her siblings:
Franny
Emma
Mary Jane
Anne Clementine
Lena is 1 year old and they live in dorset
RG11/2099 fol 8 p 8
I am sure you most probably have this as you have been hunting for 'angelina/ lina'.
There was also an unusual name ..."alena orchard" on the 1881 census, but she seems a bit old to be your Angelina.
later
deb
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ps:
sorry forgot one other sibling of 'lena' orchard:~ James
Deb
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thanks Deb
i didnt have that one it never came up when i searched ,
Casalguidi
i havent been able to find them in 1901 there children are as follows:
Henry Holland born 13/3/1899 bap 30/4/1899 Ilton somerset
Britannia Holland born 3/6/1900 bap 24/6/1900 bicknoller somerset
Thomas Holland born 21/2/1902 ashpriors somerset
Joseph Holland born 10/2/1906 williton somerset
John Holland born 22/7/1908 langford budville somerset
Edward Holland born 14/2/1914 Williton somerset
Micheal Holland born 20/10/1915 langford budville bap2/9/1917 timberscombe somerset
Beckie Holland bap 21/4/1920 timberscombe somerset
there is also a William/Bill Holland but i havnt found his birth yet for sure,
hope that helps a bit
thanks Louise
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Hi Louise.
Could the Caroline Orchard who married James Holland in Taunton in 1895 be the daughter of James and Britannia Orchard? This Caroline was 17 in the 1891 census when the family was at Bodmin so her age would fit.
Apologies if you have found this Caroline already.
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hi there
fathers name on marriage is thomas orchard, not 100% sure its even right marriage just keeping all possiblitys open, her name on childrens births was Angelina, or Annie Holland nee Orchard, but the fathers name for James on marriage cert fits as Thomas Holland and there first child being born begining of 1899 seems to fit too,
the only death i can find was for a Caroline Holland Widow of James Holland, with son Micheal as witness in barnstable area which was where she died.
thanks
Louise
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Hi,
The only Thomas I have found is the son of James Orchard and is married to Susan. I think he is the brother of the James who married Britannia. Thomas and Susan are at Bodmin Beacon in 1891 and at Helland Downs in 1901. James the father is a widower in both censuses so I don't know who Thomas' mother was.
Is this any help? ???
Sue
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hi Sue
thanks for that what age was he? would he fit for her father?
take care Louise
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Hi Louise,
In 1891Thomas was 35 and Susan was 40, and in 1901he was 45 and she was 48. No children with them in 1891 and Brittania age 9 in 1901. I know James was Thomas' father because he is living in the caravan with him in 1901. I can't find James earlier than 1891 because there are so many James Orchards. It doesn't help that his age is different in both census returns and his birthplace is Crediton in one and Gloucestershire in the other. I've got stuck here, so if you can help me out, I'd be really happy!
Sue
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hi Sue
i guess your Thomas would of been old enough to be Angelina/Caroline s father, will have a look when i have a bit of time and see if i can find any sign of them, let you know if i find anyting. do you know Susans name before marriage
take care Louise
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Hi Louise,
I have just found a marriage on freeBMD of Thomas Orchard to Susan Orchard in June quarter of 1879 in Launceston registration district. Sound possible, doesn't it?
If you don't have time to look up the census returns before Saturday, I'm bringing my folder of copies etc with me to the open day. The Record Office is the other side of the road from the barn Owl. Drive through the park and ride car park and follow the signs.
Sue
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hi, Sue,
thanks that would be great, have had a quick look at my files and although i have a couple of thomas and Susan Orchards none that are married to each other. not sure if this helps but i have a James Orchard married to a Britannia Crocker with a Son Thomas oh hang on there too young as they married round 1871. i have a James married to Sarah Phillips c 1850 and he was ment to of come from Gloucester, alot of this is second hand passed to me by others so would need looking in to, dont have any children for them but 1 Henry Orchard , James has aBrother called Thomas so the name is in the family, dont know if thats any help
Louise
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Hi Louise,
I had found the James Orchard and Brittannia Crocker marriage too. I think that Thomas was James' brother and I know their father was also named James. I wondered if I had been too hasty thinking that Thomas married Susan Orchard as that was the only marriage I could find, but the Orchards were very keen on marrying their cousins which makes it so difficult to work out relationships. Every time I find out more information about them, I just get more confused! ::)
Sue
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Sue
i know just how you feel, what with the contant change of names, places ages it hard to pin down who is who and if they belong to "my family" the fact that all four of my husband grandparents were travelers and came from big family's makes it harder coupled with the fact his parents don't always want to talk about or just don't know about there past. it dose make it all the better when you do find them mind, will see you Saturday hopefully take care Louise
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just to update, have found the family 0n 1911 census as follows:
James Holland head 36 married gipsy hawker born exter devon
Ann Holland wife 31 born swindon whiltshire
Betsey holland daughter 15 born clatworthy somerset
Henry Holland son 12 born monksilver somerset
Thomas Holland son 10 born ash priors somerset
Britannia Holland daughter 9 born bridgerwater somerset
James Holland son 7 Born monksilver somerset
Joseph Holland son 4 born rodhuish somerset
John Holland son 2 born langford heathfield somerset
William Holland son 1 Born ilminster somerset
i still have no more info on Angelina/Ann, would love to no what happened to any of this family or anything about Anglinas family, hears hoping Matilda ;)
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i will start checking for you through my files but i have a feeling this young william holland is to do with somebody I know.if i am right william married priscilla benham and then she remarried another man.i got to ring her and see what i can find out.timberscombe and angelinia ring a few bells with me.i will go look and get back to you.cathay
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i got a james holland born 1860 his mother was rebbecca orchard and his dad was joeseph holland.
then i got james born 1875 and married caroline(known as angelinia)married in 1895.james was the son of brittiania holland nee hughes and thomas holland born 1850 at bovey tracey. are any of these likely charactors?if so i will look for further info that i might have.
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sorry forgot to say caroline(angelina)was an orchard before marriage and her father was thomas.unfortunately i know very little about thomas!!!!there was a lot later angelina married maudi hughes!
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yes Cathay James is son of Thomas and Britannia holland nee hughes who is in turn son of Joseph and rebecca, im sure i sent you certs for them last yr :)
i have the marriage cert for James and Caroline holland nee orchard but have no proof that they are the same James and Ann/Angelina holland nee orchard . just a few things that point that way.
would love to know what happened to any of the children, Thomas being Tonys grandfather
Matilda ;)
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Hi Matilda,
Can you give more details of the marriage cert you have for James Holland to Caroline Orchard? For example their ages, fathers occupations, addresses and witnesses names.
Would be helpful in trying to prove/disprove this is the right couple!
Also have you considered asking if someone could look up the marriage in the parish register; I say this is as I had a GRO marriage cert with the fathers name of James, but the original did have the correct name of Samuel!!!!
Kath
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Hi,
wonder if this is of interest. Taken from Bicknoller rector's diary and Bicknoller burial registers.
Rector was not always sympathetic!!!
March 9th 1878
On my way to Williton on March 2nd I stopped a gipsy woman & spoke to her about baptism. Today 2 gipsy men called at Vicarage & wished to have 3 children baptised & one told me that his wife was
dying on the Moor. I found 5 caravans in one of which the poor woman was lying or rather reclining,
she seemed a pure gipsy & professed to be of no religion. I read to her St Matthew V telling her how
we are born in sin & that Jesus Christ came to deliver us from that state & taught us in his gospel what we ought to do if we wished to be saved. She seemed very nervous but listened, her mother & another woman were in the caravan which had a fireplace....etc
March 10th 1878
Service at Sampford Brett at 11. Rev J Tripp took the morning service here and preached for Additional Curates Society. Edie Tripp said that some of the gipsies were drunk last night and making such a noise that he hardly liked to pass by. Evensong Baptisms and Sermon 140. One gipsy child was baptised and 7 were received into the congregation. Some of the gipsies put something in the Bag. The children behaved well during the Baptismal service but badly afterwards.
October 3rd 1878
Buried C Orchard from caravan about 40 followed, orderly some in mourning some not.
Charlotte Orchard Woolston 3 Oct 1878 41 "Caravan on Woolston Moor"
November 14th 1878
Buried a gipsy child.
Robert Holland Woolston 14 Nov 1878 6mon "Caravan on Woolston Moor"
June 24th 1900
A gipsy child was baptized. Hath this child been baptized. Oh no sir, they could not read & had to be
told the responses.
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Hi,
a further reference to my last post which may be of interest.
June 11th 1917
James Holland, licensed hawker was summoned before the Williton Petty Sessions for
allowing five horses to stray on the highway at Sampford Brett on May 21st. Holland did not
appear but sent a postal order for 10s with directions as to his whereabouts if the sum was
insufficient. - Think this may be the James mentioned in some of your previous posts.
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thanks for those there great to read.
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I have a angelinia orchard born 1926 but I expect her name was passed down within the family?her perants were joseph orchard and definance packman.
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I am a dinlo.just realised that angelinia was known as caroline.her father was definitely Thomas orchard.she married james Holland.i expect you know all this as I haven't time to read the thread at the moment but will now begin a search for you and let you know if I come up with anything,might take awhile as buzy at the moment.daughter living next door has a new mobile coming Monday and all her boxes are stored in my chalet!!!!cant move!!!
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oh another angelinia Holland married modi hughes/white.i expect you know that as well??