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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: yn9man on Wednesday 05 July 06 15:38 BST (UK)
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Looking for my paternal ggg grandparents (and family information) John JARDINE and Julia MURRAY. I have been told they were born, married circa 1836 (possibly Barony, Lanark) in Scotland. I assume they also died in Scotland but I have no idea where. Their daughter Elizabeth JARDINE was born circa 1844 also in Barony. I have searched census info but came up blank.
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Hi
SP has a marriage for them:
9 Dec 1836, Barony - Glasgow area.
If you go to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
you might find their births and can check the censuses.
It's pay to view but very cheap.
Gadget
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Also I suggest you have a read of Pam's posting:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,24468.0.html
I'll have a quick look through the censuses for you, as a prelim.
Gadget
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In the 1851 they are in Maryhill, Glasgow, Barony
GROS Ref - 622-00253-00007
New House Farm
John JARDINE, 41, Poultry keeper, b. Dumfries :)
Julia, 32 (?), born Charleston, North America (wow!)
with children all born Glasgow
Catherine, 13
John, 11
Elizabeth, 6
Joseph, 4
Julia, 2
John Murray, B-in-l, unm, 30, servant, Charleston, North America
Very interesting family.
I'll check for deaths - it will give their parents' names.
Gadget :)
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John (married to Julia Murray) died Nov 5 1869 at 378 Springburn Road, aged 49. His parents were John Jardine, cloth merchant, deceased and Catherine nee Rae,deceased.
John had changed from poultry keeping to Coach builder by the time of his death.
Gadget
I can't find a death for Julia or a second marriage. Maybe she move away. It might be worth your while chasing up her brother, John Murray.
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While Gadget was busy searching on the census I was typing a message saying that often find it more useful to look for a female death (as can search on both maiden and married names). Can narrow down where they were living later in life and if the husband died first. But there found no matches for a Julia Murray/Jardine in the deaths. Given the info that Gadget has found about the family this probably means that she didn't stay around in Scotland after her husband's death.
Gordon
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Gadget -
THANK YOU SO MUCH !!! for your replies to my query. Unbelievable that Julia MURRAY was from Charleston, North America. Now I just need to find which Charleston?. I had been told all my Dads family was Scottish. Guess thats another a story for another day. Oh well one mystery solved and now a new one to resolve.
yn9man
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Quick update. I just located John Jardine and Julia in the 1841 census in Glasgow. 2 children Catherine and John. Also on the census is a Mary Murray (born outside census county) possibly the mother of Julia??. Thanks to Gadget and Gordon for their assistance.
yn9man
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Gadget -
I meant to ask you where (i.e. town, city, village, etc.) 378 Springburn is located. I was going to assume Maryhill. Barony, Scotland but that information was from the 1851 census and 18 year time difference from date of death. How did you know he had changed occupations from poultry keeper to coach builder?. Was it in the death information? I also noticed his age at death in 1869 (49 years) doesn't reconcile to the 1851 census data (when his age was listed as 41). Or am I again missing something
I got so excited after seeing your posting I forgot my mind. And again, thanks ever so much for your information. Still working on trying to find which Charleston, North America my ggg grandmother was from.
An interesting family as you so stated ...
yn9man
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Well the info on the death cert, identifies him as the husband of Julia Murray and his son Joseph was the informant. The info on the 1851 aso identifies him as the husband of Julia Murray and lists Joseph as one of the sons. Age details are recorded by the enumerator from the info given to him. This is also the case on the early death certs - no birth record available or required. Possibly Joseph wasn't sure of the age or maybe knew the birth year and didn't do his mental arithmetic too well. Age differences like this are common on 19th century records.
Gadget
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Oh sorry, 378 Springburn Road is in the Springburn District of Glasgow itself.
Gadget
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Gadget -
Thanks for your two recent replies. I truly appreciate your assistance. I am still "blown away" with the information that Julia MURRAY was born in North America. I spent the better part of last night "censusing" but to no avail. I do look at it as another mystery to be solved.
yn9man
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Yes -
I've just been looking through Ancestry and there are no early censuses up for there. I've also tried both Julia and brother John but drawn blanks :(
I assume that there are census records for 1820 and 1830 for Charleston and that they just haven't been transcribed. Is it possible for you to get them on film over there?
Gadget
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My plan is to go to the the local Family History Center (FHC) tomorrow. I'm hoping someone there will be able to assist me with South Carolina records. I did some searching on Charleston History and as far as I could find there appear to have been early 1800 census. Availability is another question.
If the FHC doesn't work out then I will find my way to the local county genealogy library and see what assistance they might be able to provide. Other than the last name of MURRAY and sibling names not much for me to go on. After Charleston I can start looking for birth information on John JARDINE in England.
Thanks again many times over ...
yn9man
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Ahhhhhhhhh but we have.......
If we can find one of those elusive death certs or a second marriage.
Gadget - off to search again :)
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On the 1871 she was living at Saracen Street, Maryhill, Glasgow:
Julia Jardine, wid, 53, Housekeeper, b. America, Carolina
James Jardine, son, 14, Engineer (app), b. Lanarkshire, Glasgow
Alexander Jardine, son, 10, scholar, b. Lancashire, Govan (Glasgow to you and I ;) )
GROS Ref - 622-01008-01052
Gadget :D
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There is no sign of any of these three in Scotland after 1871. Did they emmigrate or move to England?
I'll check the census info and ships lists.
Added - Don't understand - they're no where at all ??? ??? ???
Gadget
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Thanks again. I really owe you. I believe she died in Scotland but I have nothing to base that information on other than "family lore". Of course that was the same source that had Julia born in Scotland when in fact she was both in Charleston, South Carolina.
I wonder, since the family was on the move (different addresses but still in areas around Glasgow in the 1841, 1851 and 1871 census) if she didn't move in with one of her children or possibly another relative. I couldn't find her or any children in the 1861 census under Jardine.
Also, I had no luck in South Carolina after 1871.
Thanks again and WE WILL solve this mystery.
yn9man
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Gadget -
Spent over 4 hours at the FHC yesterday to no avail. Made it to the local genealogy library also where I didn't have any success.
Not knowing where John JARDINE was actually born (England or Scotland) doesn't help either. I haven't found the family in the 1861 Scottish census or US census for similar time period either. I am hoping to find when Julia's mother Mary died (sometime after 1841 she was living in that census.
Thanks again for all your assistance.
yn9man
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John Jardine was born Dumfries, circa 1810 according to the 1851 census. See my early posting ^^^^^^
I'll have a look.
Gadget
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There are quite a few possibles but none with the combination of names given on his birth certificate.
I think you really must now register with Scotlands People and purchase a few units and look yourself.
Gadget
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Thanks and I am in full agreement with you.
yn9man
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John and Julia are my great great grand parents. In 1880 my greatgrand father Robert was living in Bennington Vermont with his wife, several children and his brother James. Both Robert and James married Annies. Robert ended up in Hartford Connecticut. James ended up in Berkerley California. Sadly my great grandparents had to bury 4 of their adult sons before they passed themselves.
Oldnutmegger
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oldnutmegger -
I wonder how many other Jardines ended up in the United States. Sent you a personal message about the Jardines and what I know.
yn9man
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It sounds like a lot of our family made it across the pond, more than I originally thought. Also got your personal note. Thanks.
Oldnutmegger