RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: Marko on Sunday 16 April 06 18:00 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Can anyone help please? I am trying to find my gg grandmother and indeed her family. According to the censuses she was a Hannah Pearce having married my gg grandfather James Pearce a Tailor in Fulham Middlesex. I know she was born in 1808 and was a charwoman born I believe in Burclere Hants. This is spelt differently in every census but I guess it may be Burghclere Hampshire. Can't find them in 1841 census. I know James and Hannah had at least 5 children Francis J, Joseph, Martha, Dinah and James Frederick Pearce. The last being my g grandfather. I believe James and Hannah were married prior to 1836 the birth of Francis. Can't find a wedding cert for James and Hannah. Can't find a birth cert for James Pearce b 1811 in Fulham. Spent lots of time at London Metropolitan Archives and the FRC. No joy yet!!!
They could have married in Hampshire I suppose but would need to visit Andover Archives I expect.
Can anyone throw any light on who she was and who her family were?
All help really appreciated.
Many thanks,
Mark
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Hi,
Can anyone help please? I am trying to find my gg grandmother and indeed her family. According to the censuses she was a Hannah Pearce having married my gg grandfather James Pearce a Tailor in Fulham Middlesex. I know she was born in 1808 and was a charwoman born I believe in Burclere Hants. This is spelt differently in every census but I guess it may be Burghclere Hampshire. Can't find them in 1841 census. I know James and Hannah had at least 5 children Francis J, Joseph, Martha, Dinah and James Frederick Pearce. The last being my g grandfather. I believe James and Hannah were married prior to 1836 the birth of Francis. Can't find a wedding cert for James and Hannah. Can't find a birth cert for James Pearce b 1811 in Fulham. Spent lots of time at London Metropolitan Archives and the FRC. No joy yet!!!
They could have married in Hampshire I suppose but would need to visit Andover Archives I expect.
Can anyone throw any light on who she was and who her family were?
All help really appreciated.
Many thanks,
Mark
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Hi Mark,
Where are James and Hannah to be found for the various census and when/where were the children born? Did they live in London or Hampshire?
The easiest, but not necessarily the cheapest way to find out her maiden name is to get a birth certificate for one of the children born AFTER 1837. If the couple married before 1836, then there will only be a parish register entry for the marriage, no certificate.
Nell
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Hi
Long shot..but here goes
James Pearce - Hannah Wilkins, 7th October 1828,St. John The Evangelist, Lambeth.
Bryan.
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Really, will the birth certificate have the maiden name of Hannah on it? Do you know I hadn't thought of that. If so so your a genius! Thank-you for your help. I must be getting slow in my old age!! I will order one straight away. Thanks again. I wish I had known it would be that simple.
Best Regards,
Mark
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Bryan,
Many thanks, I don't know how you got there but thanks all the same. Someone has suggested I order a birth certificate for one of the children that might have the miden name of Hannah on it. Do you know I hadn't thought of that. Thank-you for your help anyway. We should see if your right. I must be getting slow in my old age!! I will order one straight away. Thanks again. I wish I had known it would be that simple.
Best Regards,
Mark
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Nell/Anyone else
I did some further research and although I have found baptism records for all of the children and indeed three were born affter 1837 I can not find any birth registration information in either Ancestry.co.uk or freebmd nor at the FRC. So I cannot order birth certificates. The children were all born in Fulham and lived there. Any other suggestions anyone please to find Hannah's surname.
Many thanks for any help.
Mark
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Bryan/Anyone else
I did some further research and although I have found baptism records for all of the children and indeed three were born affter 1837 I can not find any birth registration information in either Ancestry.co.uk or freebmd nor at the FRC. So I cannot order birth certificates. The children were all born in Fulham and lived there. I will look up Hannah Wilkins to find out when she was born but a marriage in 1828 would be early making her just 20 and 8 years before Francis was born.
Any other suggestions anyone please to find Hannah's surname.
Many thanks for any help.
Mark
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Were you expecting to see Fulham as the registration district? It isn't - it's Kensington. Does that help?
Nell
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Nell,
Many thanks but I realised that Fulham wasn't a registration district until much later. No I have found marriage certificates for some of the children later but no actual birth certs. I have even found the death certificate for Hannah but still no indication of her maiden name. I have found her on the 1841, 1851, 1861 and 1871 census and then she died in 1876. She was married all of that time and lived and died in Fulham but born elsewhere (ii appears from the censuses it is Burclere Hants)
That's as far as I get.
Anyway thank-you so much for your help. It even helps just going over the problem to see if there is anything I have overlooked.
Best Regards,
Mark
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hi marko
1841 has this family
James Pearce 30 tailor born in county
Hannah " 34 not born in county
Francis James Pearce 5 born in county
Joseph? Pearce 3 "
living at Bridge Street, Kensington, Fulham, Middlesex
H0107/ 689/ 11
Folio 44
page 35
ricky
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Ricky,
Yes since I posted my first message a week ago I found them on the 1841 census as it came online for Middlesex at origins.co.uk and made searching for them a lot easier. So yes found them at 1841,1851, 1861 1nd 1871 and Hannah died in 1876 but still can't work out how to clinch what Hannah's maiden name was.
However Ricky thank-you so much for all your efforts. It is good to know that there are people out there that will help so much.
Best Regards,
Mark
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Hi Mark
Perhaps I can help in two ways.
The first is give me the dates of births of 2 of the children after 1837 as the Free BMD and Ancestry do not have all the indexes transcrived as yet. I have access to the full indexes.
Secondly if we get a maiden name for Hannah I can check the Burghclere parish records for you.
Regards
June
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June,
First thank-you so much for the offer of help - I had almost given up hope of finding my g g grandmother's maiden name. The responses have not been thick and fast although I really do appreciate the few suggestions I have received so far.
Well here goes children born to Hannah and James Pearce after 1837:--
Joseph Pearce born 28/9/1837 and bap. 3/12/1837 Fulham Middx.
Martha Elizabeth Pearce born 12/7/1842 bap 5/10/1842 Fulham Middx.
Dinah Margaret Pearce born 9/10/1844 bap 17/11/1844 Fulham Middx.
James Frederick Pearce born 21/5/1848 bap 21/5/1852 Fulham Middx.
James Frederick the son, my g grandfather marrried Louisa Cook on 13/7/1872 and I have his marriage cert. in Hanover Sq. Middx.
I have found Hannah ? many times in censuses or censi and in all they say she was born in Berclear ot Burclear or even Berkley Hampshire.
She was born in 1808 or very close I believe.
James Pearce her husband was a Tailor born in Fulham in 1811.
So that is the best I can do!!!!
Any help I would really appreciate greatly.
Best regards and thanks again,
Mark
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could this be the marriage?
JAMES PEARSE
to Ann Spackman
on 6/2/ 1832 at Andover. Hamps
audrey
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Hi
I saw the marriage of James Pearse and Ann Spackman but in the 1841 census it shows the couple living in Andover with their children James, Louisa and Edwin and Ann's sister? Elizabeth Spackman. It states that James and Ann were both born outside Hampshire.
James's occupation was Sadler. He was born abt 1806 and Ann was born 1811.
I suppose the thing to do is to check the 1861 census to see where they were.
Regards
June
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June, Audrey,
Interesting, but probably not the right Pearce family as here is the one I am after in 1841.
James Pearce 30 tailor born in county
Hannah " 34 not born in county - born Hampshire
Francis James Pearce 5 born in county
Joseph Pearce 3 "
living at Bridge Street, Fulham, Kensington, Middlesex
H0107/ 689/ 11
Folio 44, Page 35
However don't give up please as I need all the help I can get as you can see!!!
Also many thanks to you both!!
Best Regards,
Mark
P.S. I am also looking for James Pearce's b 1811 Fulham Middx. father and mother!!!
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Hi
Have you had any success with Hannah's maiden name yet? There's a chance she could have been the Hannah BALL, twin to Martha, born of Elizabeth BALL in 1808? I have no proof at present but am trying to establish if their mother Elizabeth was a daughter of Dinah/Robert BALL. Seems as if the PEARCEs repeated some of the BALL names .....
Moderator comment - topics merged
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Hi,
I've checked the images of the BMD pages for the birth dates you gave for Joseph & Dinah and they're not there! No Dinah for Pearce or Pearse and the only Joseph was born in Sheffield. The only expalantion I can think of is that the surname has been changed at some point. What if they were her children from a previous marriage, or possibly his sisters children which they took on? Shot in the dark I know.
Good Luck with this one.
I think I need to go to bed now.
Jacqui
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Any births or marriages would not appear in the BMD as thats when civil registration started in England and Wales. To find an event before this you would have to look in the parish register, in this casse Burghclere for a baptism.
regards
June
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All especially Dee-jay,
Thank-you for your continuing efforts. I have come to a dead stop on this one. If you look back through my postings then I have given all the info I have. I can find her Husband James Pearce and the baptisms of her children in Fulham London at the All Saint's church plus her in several censi up until her death in 1876 but cannot establish her Maiden name. There are 3 children born after 1837 but they are not on BMD.
I have an uncanny feeling Dee Jay has hit the nail on the head but I confess I don't know why - it could be the name rings a bell somewhere or the fact that Martha Elizabeth and Dinah Margaret are the names of Hannah's daughters. James Frederick, Francis and Joseph are the names of the sons. Any proof will be gratefully appreciated. I imagine Hannah married James Pearce in 1835 or 1836 in Burghclere but I haven't searched the parish records there.
Anyway thank-you all for your suggestions much appreciated and thanks Dee-Jay I reckon you just may well be right!
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Hi Mark,
You seem to have precise dates for the births & baptisms wher did these come from?
Jacqui
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Jacqui,
I obtained the precise dates of birth and baptism from Parish Records for All Saints Church in Fulham from their parish records held at the London Metropolitan Archives in London. However I cannot find the marriage of James Pearce a Tailor to Hannah ? a Charwoman. The censi tell me she was born in Hampshire in 1808 and I believe in Burghclere although the emunerator spells it Burclere or Burclear!!
I guess they married in 1835 or 36 in Burclere before the bith of Francis Pearce.
Thanks for your help and interest.
Best Regards,
Mark
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Mark
Sorry - no sign of the marriage in Burghclere PR. I'll bear it in mind when researching parishes in close proximity.
dee-jay
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Dee-jay,
Many many thanks for looking anyway. It would seem Hannah's name or proof will ellude me somehow. If you do come across it I would appreciate the info.
Best Regards and thanks,
Mark
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Hello Marko,
Pallot's has a marriage of Jas Pearce (b) and Hannah Hopkins (s) at St. Paul Hammersmith in 1834. Hammersmith seems to be geographically close to Fulham.
The IGI has a Hannah Hopkins christened 16 Aug 1807 in Burghclere, Hampshire. Parents listed are Richard Hopkins and Dinah.
The Batch Number for this entry also lists a Martha Hopkins with parents Richard Hopkins and Dinah, christened 25 Jun 1809.
Caution is needed with this next item because it is not an extracted record, but the IGI also has a marriage of Richard Hopkins and Dinah Bowles on 23 Dec 1805 in Burghclere, Hampshire.
Hope this Hannah turns out to be yours.
Regards,
Polarbear
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Well done, Polarbear!
If this is the correct Hannah, then her father would appear to have died in 1809, buried 12 May 1809.
There is no burial record in Hampshire for Hannah Hopkins born in 1809, nor for a Dinah Hopkins.
Howwever, there is a marriage record (not extracted so again treat with caution until checked) for Dinah Hopkins to Joseph Watts in Burghclere in 1812.
Nell
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What do I say!!!! Thank-you so much for your efforts Polar Bear. Its people like you and DeeJay & Nell of course that make this site what it is when people like me get into difficulty!! I am not sure how I will check these out but the names tie up and even the Martha and Dinah connections of names!!! Well done indeed. I need to sit down and collate all this info. and see what to do next to prove or not this info and connection to my family.
Many many thanks!!! Your a star.
Mark
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Don't get too carried away Mark!
I've recently undertaken a mammoth task to try and separate the BALL/BOWLES/BOLES families in the Burghclere Overseers A/cs for another researcher. Unfortunately it appears at times one of the Overseers was either dyslexic, or semi-literate, and the A/cs became very confused as there was a Dinah/Diana BALL and one or more lady named Dinah BOWLES/BOWL/BOLES featuring in similar periods.
There was a lying-in [supposedly for Dinah BALL] in August 1805 followed by a baptism of 13 Oct 1805 Henry Nat Son of Dinah BOWLES, for whom John WIGFIELD made payment up to Oct 1807. Dina BOWLES was recorded receiving her last [maintenance] payment of 6/- on 01 May 1808. Sadly, Henry was buried 01 June 1808.
Provided their sums added up OK, I don't think they were too concerned about names! There is a delightful entry in 1812 of Taking Jiles BOWLS to the 'ouspital with a hors & cart' but there do not appear to be any further entries attributable to Dinah BOWLES after May 1808.
PEARCE also featured in the Overseers A/cs: Thomas PEARCE relieved in Smallpox 1801; Henry PEARCE an Overseer in 1802; 1805 submission of a Clothing A/c from Henry PEARCE for payment of goods supplied to paupers. There may have been other PEARCE entries but my focus was on the BALLS.
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Courtesy of one of my contacts, these are the marriages extracted from the microfiche of Burghclere PRs:
Marriage by banns: on 8 , 15, and ?(sic) December 1805
Richard HOPKINS (x) bachelor otp and Dinah BOWLES (x) spinster otp
Were married on 23 December 1805
Witnesses: Elizabeth FOSBURY (x) and Giles BOWLES (x).
Marriage by banns: on 7, 14 and 21 June 1812
Joseph WATTS (x) bachelor of Sidmonton (?) in the parish of Kingsclere
And Dinah HOPKINS (x) widow otp were married on 5 July 1812.
Witnesses: Richard TURNER (x) and Ann WATTS (x).
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Re: Burghclere Hampshire, I am not if this will help but there was a place called Old Burghclere which about one and half miles away from today's Burghclere in Hampshire. If you have any problems I could try to see what comes up at the local Church's if you have a surname to look for.
my Parents live not far away from burghclere and I went to school in Burghclere.
from Dan tay.
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Dee-Jay, Nell & Polar Bear,
Firstly, I apologise if I appeared to get carried away Dee Jay but I have been trying to establish Hannah's name and family for a very long time now and obviously I am really excited that suddenly due to you and Polar Bear I appear to be getting somewhat closer!!!! Secondly thank-you so much for all your efforts and the last two messages and your and your contacts efforts. with the Parish Records. So tell me what does a lying-in entail?
And let me see have I got this right:-
Hannah appears to have been born Hannah Hopkins bap 16/8/1807
She married James Pearce poss in 1834 at St.Pauls Hammersmith(next door to Fulham)
Hannah's sister may have been Martha Hopkins bap 25/6/1809
Parents poss. Dinah Bowles & Richard Hopkins that married on 23/12/1805 in Burghclere. Richard dying in 1809 buried 12/5/1809.
Dinah then went on to marry Joseph Watts on 5/7/1812 in Kingsclere next to Burghclere.
It would also appear that Giles or Jiles Bowles was a brother or uncle to Dinah.
Well as Hannah's daughters were called Martha Pearce and Dinah Pearce and one son called Joseph Pearce this does appear to fit rather nicely.
James Frederick Pearce another son was named I presume after his father James Pearce.
mmmmm this all looks very possible
Thank-you so much one and all and I do realise that some of the info is not extracted but alot has been confirmed by the Parish Records. So that is wonderful. Now to find where James Pearce's (b1811) parents came from as he was born in Fulham!
Cheers and best Regards,
Mark
Oh and Daniel that is a really kind offer. There is a church of All Saints in Old Burghclere and I did find a gravestone laid on the wall, as they all are, with the name Fosbury on it which happens to be the surname of a witness to Richard and Dinah Bowles wedding.
Didn't find any Bowles or Hopkins or Watts but if you can please let me know!!! Thanks.
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So tell me what does a lying-in entail?
Dinah then went on to marry Joseph Watts on 5/7/1812 in Kingsclere next to Burghclere.
Answer: A period of bed-rest for the mother following a birth.
Correction: Both of Dinah's marriages appeared in the Burghclere PR.
I've just lost a detailed reply into an abyss! Suggest you obtain the marriage entry for James PEARCE/Hannah HOPKINS as it may reveal other pertinent details of the bride's origins. Also, consider writing to the Kensington Registration District with full details extracted from the children's baptism records in case the Registrar had failed to submit his returns or the PEARCE children were recorded without Christian names, i.e. 'Male' or 'Female'.