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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Ewan on Sunday 02 July 06 08:02 BST (UK)
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Original Title: How to add a sample of handwriting?
Can anyone advise me on how to crop and cut :-\ a copy of a certificate that I have in a file. I would like to put it on rootschat to see if anyone can decipher some handwriting for me.
Also, can it be on any of the boards?
Many thanks
Ewan
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Hi Ewan,
I think most of the answers are here
Topic: Adding images to Posting & Profiles
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,130922.0.html
read it through and try it out, and if you still have questions, then ask again
You can post images on most boards, but NOT on the County Look-up requests boards.
(for handwriting, the "Common Room" is probably best)
Again, try it out and see, and if doesn't work, ask again.
good luck,
Bob
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Hello Bob
I am absolutely useless at this, do I need to download IrfranView to do this type of thing?
At the moment the certificate I have is copied into a Paintshop file from PhotoImpact when I click on image, it shows different options but it it won't allow me to choose 'crop to selection'.
I am really lost here.
Ewan
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Hi Ewan,
There is most likely an option in Paintshop for this, but as I don't use it, you'll have to wait for an 'expert' to come along with the answer.
I personally find IrfanView ideal for the cropping, re-sizing, format changing (BMP to JPG, etc),
which is about 95% of all I ever do with graphics.
Bob
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Hello Bob
Thank you for your time in trying to help me, I will keep plodding away. Got to get it right in the end.
Ewan
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Hi all
Ewan has emailed me the cert and I have cropped the witnesses names which I hope I've attached here ;D
Can we have some suggestions as to what they say please.
It's one of those certs where they are both of full age and both living in Hammersmith...in fact no help at all ;D ;D
Bob please move this elsewhere if you think it'll get more suggestions.
ATB
Carol
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I think the first one is a Harriet something- I have the advantage of having seen the original cert ;) and the first letter is very much like the H in Hammersmith......and I see a dot above the name too.
At first I thought it might be Samuel.
Checking the 1841 with Harriet and Roth* or Rath* has got me nowhere though ........yet. ::)
Carol
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Thank you very very much Carol for helping me out there :)
Most of the afternoon I have been struggling with just trying to crop and cut part of the image, my brother in law has just left the house after looking at it for about 10 minutes and said you have no facility on the toolbar to 'select' any thing (paintshop pro). So he went in to the main toolbar across the top and clicked on 'toggle tool palette' and lo and behold a whole blimming lot of tools appeared on the lefthand side. 'There' he said 'easy'. ::)
So for future use I now know what to do, might go for a practice run later ;)
Let's hope someone can make out the handwriting now.
Thanks again
Ewan
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Without the right tool for the job Ewan you're stuffed ;D
Glad to hear you have found it now.
Am still trying to make out the 1851 and 1871 place of birth as well as the witnesses names- blimey your family haven't made it at all easy have they?
ATB
Carol
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Hi Ewan and Carol
Can you give us the date of the marriage certificate please and the names and ages of the bride and groom - to allow some census searches.
My first thought on the first name was Daniel.
I will keep looking at it!
Barbara
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Barbara
I hadn't thought of Daniel ::) and that's my grandsons name ::)
Attaching the whole cert here so it might be easier to make out some of the atrocious letters on it.
It was Sept 1843 by the way.
Carol
Carol I have removed the certificate image - PM on its way! Rick
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first one looks like Samuel Rathmake ?
second Isaac Heath......
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I also agree that the first name could be Daniel and maybe Rothendale?! or something.
The second first name again could be Isaac and the surname looks like Matthews.
acceber
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I think it's definitely Daniel andthe second is Jean. Not sure of the surnames though. The second does look like Matthews as acceber suggests.
Gadget
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Thank you to everyone that is trying to decipher the handwriting, I have called on my sons previously to ask about 'funny' writing. This is how they seem to write nowadays in our area, all loops and squiggles.
The first one quite rightly could be a 'D' spelling Daniel I think there may just be an 'i' near the end of the name.
Isaac looks like it could be the second name, and I thought Health .... or Hedth .....? for the surname
The surname of Matthews did cross my mind, as Maria Lewis' grandaughter married a Matthews in 1901 (witnesses quite clearly were Halls). On the 1841 census some of the same Matthews family were living around the corner from a Lewis family (my first message).
If I can't make a decision on this handwriting I may even contact the FRC or whoever, and see if they can help me in anyway. Nothing to lose
As for the birthplace it has been covered before - Brokeworth in Gloucesterhsire or Brockenhurst in Hampshire. The only way I am going to find out if it is any of those is to look at parish records from those counties.
Again thank you for all your input, you are all really a helpful bunch. :) :) :)
Ewan
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I think it's Daniel Rothwell and Jean Matthews.
Is that any help?
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i'd say Samuel or Lemuel something
and
Isaac Matthews
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Just to say that it is possible but unlikely that there would be two male witnesses. I'm still going with Jean as the second name. Notice the loop below the line - this would not be the case with an I.
Gadget
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The problem with Jean as the 2nd name is that it doesn't seem to exist as a christian name in 1841 :-\
The hope is that we could find these witnesses and tie them together with the happy couple to try and find out which Maria Lewis she was and where she was hiding in 1841.
If anyone can find any of the suggested names in 1841- you win tonights star prize ;D ;D ;D
Carol
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The problem with Jean as the 2nd name is that it doesn't seem to exist as a christian name in 1841 :-\
The hope is that we could find these witnesses and tie them together with the happy couple to try and find out which Maria Lewis she was and where she was hiding in 1841.
If anyone can find any of the suggested names in 1841- you win tonights star prize ;D ;D ;D
Carol
It did in Scotland Carol. My 4x grt grandmother, 3x great grandmother and 2x great grandmother were all called Jean.
Gadget
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Hello everyone, and a big thank you again for the overwhelming response to my handwriting question.
I have just called GRO at Southport to ask if anyone could look at the microfiche of this marriage certificate. I was told no but if I sent the one I have back to them they would see if they could get a clearer copy for me, or they could just handwrite the details on to a certificate for me. As yet haven't decided what to do. :-\
We do have a few names to go on though - Samuel, Isaac, Daniel and Jean, with Matthews, Rothwell and Rathmake for a surname.
I must admit I have never seen a Jean from all those years ago, it does seem a newer name to me.
I have also looked through marriage certificates and there does appear to be a pattern with mine, of a female and a male being the witnesses, that is something to note down for future reference.
Many Thanks :) :)
Ewan
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Having enlarged it to 4 times size Ewan, Jean might even be Jessie and the surname could be Mca something :-\
Gadget
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Ewan,
Another possibility is if someone could do you a look-up of the Parish Records for the Parish Church in Hammersmith as the original register will have the actual signatures of the witnesses - may be easier to read - but then again :-\
Pinetree
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Me again!
I wonder if these people could help?
http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/Directory/Leisure_and_Culture/Libraries/Archives/17430_Archives_and_Local_History.asp
Pinetree
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In my experience Jean is a Scottish name in that time period.
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I'm thinking of something like a Jean Mcarthur, Throckenholt.
Gadget
Added:
If anyone is looking, my lot were all recorded as Jane in censues when they came south of the border.
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I agree with Pinetree, a squint at the Parish register would be a good idea.
I looked on the LMA website and they have them:
St Peter, Hammersmith. Banns 1836-1869 film no:X096/223
St Peter Hammersmith. Marriages 1827-1856 film no X081/032
I think they will do look ups for you for a fee (see website) or if you can get there yourself it is very straightforward and free. Or maybe a rootschater is going and could look for you.
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I still think the first name is Daniel Rothwell, but I've changed my mind about the other name - first name does look alot like Jean or maybe Joan ??? and the surname, I think now, starts with an "H" - compare to "H"ammersmith etc. Still can't work out what it says, but could it be something like "Healther" or "Hatcher" ?
A bit more mud for the waters! ;D
Prue
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Looks like Irene Heatherton to me
Kerry
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Hi,
I think it looks like Daniel Rothmaker and Jean Mathews.
Diane.
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Hello everyone :)
I think that for the second surname it begins with a H as in Hammersmith.
That is all I am sure of ;D
If Jean is a scottish name in that time period having a Mc to start the surname would indeed make sense.
Gadget, I will request a look up at the LMA to look at the signature, I just may be lucky that someone is going there.
Pinetree, I might give those people a ring from the website you gave, they just may be able to help, thank you for the details.
I've got a good idea, why don't you just all come round my house and we can mull it over with a cup of tea and cream cakes in the garden ;)
Many thanks
Ewan
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And can I just add, that Jean was a very common name here in Scotland in the 1800's, so I definately think it's Jean.
Diane.
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carefully compare the writing on the whole certificate - looks like the second surname begins with the same letter as the street they lived in, and the wife's father - H I think.
Also - see how stretched some letters are in the other words - and maye trace it on to a piece of paper - see if you can fill in the gaps - or if something flows right after going over the other words !.
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Well if the name is Jean there could well be a Scottish connection with Maria, and that is why I am unable to clarify her birthplace.
As for the birthplace, I have on 2 censuses, it has been covered before - Brokeworth in Gloucesterhsire or Brockenhurst in Hampshire.
Perhaps she was born in Scotland :)
Ewan
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If Jean is a scottish name in that time period having a Mc to start the surname would indeed make sense.
Gadget, I will request a look up at the LMA to look at the signature, I just may be lucky that someone is going there.
Hi Ewan
As I said many posts ago my 4x (b. 1746), my 3x (b. 1786), and my 2x (b. 1810) great grandmothers and my 2x great aunt (b. 1839) were all bpt. Jean. All were Scottish.
I also think it is probably an 'H' having looked at the 'M' in the second column - maybe the squiggle I though was a 'c' is the loop of the H.
Thanks for invite - but don't like cream cakes.Green tea would be nice though ;)
Gadget
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No Maria Lewis born Scotland on the SP site. Sorry.
G
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Hello Gadget
Looks like you were on the right lines with the Scottish theme, something else I have learnt 'Jean' also being a Scottish name
Actually, 'Lewis' has a Scottish feel, I think that crossed my mind when I first came across this ancestor. :-\
Many thanks
Ewan
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Hello Gadget
Looks like you were on the right lines with the Scottish theme, something else I have learnt 'Jean' also being a Scottish name
Actually, 'Lewis' has a Scottish feel, I think that crossed my mind when I first came across this ancestor. :-\
Many thanks
Ewan
Lewis can also be Welsh ::) ::) ::)
Oh dear, I'm making things more complicated :-\
Gadget
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Well, the bloke she married had a very Welsh sounding name - 'Thomas Davis'
born in Chiswick.
Ewan
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I have heaps of Davis/Davies who come from Wiltshire - so not necessarily a Welsh connection.
I think the Jean is a red herring - looks more like Isaac to me. And beware witnesses were often the same person for most marriages in a church - sometimes a church warden of something similar.
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Yes, I have experienced church wardens being witnesses before. As this one I was trying to see if there was any connection with the newly married couple and the witnesses. I went to the record office, found the marriage and there was loads of the same witnesses for other marriages. Looked like rent-a-witness.
Thanks for your ideas much appreciated.
Ewan
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Ewan
Just in from work and cream cakes sounds good to me.
Don't drink tea though- but a cold beer would be nice ;D
Carol
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Hello everyone
The response regarding the handwriting problem has been brilliant, so thank you to everyone that chipped in with advice and ideas.
I phoned up the Hammersmith and Fulham Archives today and on looking at the original, handwriting still very dodgy, the lady told me that she would have said that the first witness was a Daniel Rothwell/Bothwell and the second witness was a Jean Heather. So three cheers for all those of you that said any of those names ;). She also said that she had a look around at other marriages and could not see those witnesses again, so in my amatuer interpretation they were not from 'rent-a-witness'. This very helpful lady also said that there were a lot people with the surname of 'Heathers' in that area. Finally, she did say that 'Jean' was a Scottish name. Finally again ;D she said that on the top of the original she was looking at, regarding the banns Great Grimsby had been crossed through, but she added she didn't know whether this was relevant to where the banns were or not.
Thank you all again :).
Ewan
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Oh I'm so glad it's a Scottish Jean, Ewan :) :) :)
I'll now go and lookfor some Heathers on SP.
Gadget
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No Daniel Bothwell's but 4 Rothwell's.
Have mailed Ewan separately with the info.....no Maria Lewis's nearby though.
Carol
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11 Jane Heathers bpts in England on IGI that might fit. Only one Jean Heatlie in Scotland bpt. 1799.
Scottish Jean was nearly always written Jane on English records :(
But she could have been married to a Mr Heather ;)
Gadget - with too many Scottish Jeans and genes to count ;)
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Ewan,
Glad you got some more ideas for this - when you make the connection we'll have to come for tea and cakes etc to celebrate. Will need to make it quick though before the thunderstorms arrive ;D
Pinetree
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Hello Gadget, Carol and Pinetree
Carole has found some Rothwells for me in Lancashire, as I mentioned there was the area 'Great Grimsby' at the top of the marriage certificate crossed through. Now on my little map, Lincolnshire is near to Lancashire, I am just wondering if Maria Lewis was perhaps baptised there, and it is a place where I should search for this.
Thanks once again for all help, and Pinetree if the forecast is correct regarding thunderstorms I might make a connection tonight and it will be champers and not tea ;)!
Ewan
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Have a look at this then:
1841
HO107/689/3 Folio 25, Page 4 Reg District Brentford, sub district - Chiswick
Jane Heather, 25-29, not born County. Think the wife of Richard Heather,Brewer's man
Jean nearly always written as Jane in England.
Chiswick is just a hop and a skip as they say ;)
Gadget - back to the football ;)
Lincolnshire is near to Lancashire,
Miles away - the other side in fact - strange map you have ???
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Hello Gadget
That is interesting stuff you have found because:
Thomas Davis and his first wife (prior to Maria Lewis) lived at HO107/689/3/37 in Chiswick 1841.
In 1851 Maria and Thomas Davis lived at Hogarth Place Chiswick HO107/1699, he was a Brewers Servant.
And in 1841, what started this whole thing off, was this Lewis family living at The Mall Chiswick H0107/689/2 -
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=166665.new;topicseen#new
I wonder if anyone can help by trying to find a Jane/Jean Heather on the 1851 to see where her birthplace was.
I think we are getting warmer with this one, I am literally. I am now off to water the marrows etc with a watering can and not hosepipe.
Ewan
PS This is the second time I have typed this out, I don't think I've left any of my original message out. I pressed the wrong button and lost the lot .......... ???
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I've found one possible in Byfleet Surrey husband away. She was born Somerset, circa 1816. I'm still looking though. There's a Richard, b. 1818 also in Byfleet as a Servant :-\
I was hoping that she would be a Davi(e)s or a Lewis, but can't find a marriage.
Gadget
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I think we might have them in the 1841, Ewan, because the Heathers are living in Hogarth Lane 8)
Thing is the son is George in 1851 and Richard in 1841 but the dates of birth of Richard snr and Jane match the 1841 ???
Would like someone else's opinion on this. My eyes are getting squiffy.
Gadget
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Gadget and Ewan
I have found the Jane you mean- it actually says she was born in Exeter Devonshire. Her 1841 kids Richard and Sarah are both working as servants in Byfleet(poor kids only 11 and 12) and I think George who is now 12 must have been farmed out to grannie on census day in 1841?
Doesn't dad's occupation now say Guardsman? As in, Jane wife of " guardsman".
Gonna try them in 1861 next.
Hubby is watching yet more football......and I thought we'd lost? >:(
Carol
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In 1861 the Heathers are in Thames Ditton,Richard is 43 and a gardener(maybe that's what it said in 51?)
They have 19 year old dau Jane b Chiswick living with them and 2 younger ones born in Surrey,they also have a 2 year old nurse child(a foster child) called Agnes Sutton.
Not sure if that helps to move us on at all?
Sure as eggs Maria isn't with them or near them now though :(
HMmmmmmmmm...............
Carol
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Yes it said that she was wife of a gardener in the 1851. The Somerset birth might have been another one - i was seeing so many Jane's and my eyes were going bananas on my laptop - not good. :(
Gadget
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Oops where did I put me glasses 8) Oh yes gardener- so it does ;D
We had a power cut here earlier,cos of the bad weather,and now I'm quite tired,having to make dinner on just gas rings and no oven!
And it's still so flipping hot too.
I'm off to bed now ;)
Carol
bananas on your laptop- hmmm !!!
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Well Carol - only an hour or so - I'm an expert at power cuts. We have them for 2-3 days up here :(
I'm now starting to get concerned about who we are looking for - the married couple's births or the witnesses ???
I think I'll wait for Ewan to decide.
Gadget - back on her laptop ;)
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glad you are making progress.
In response to your query about Great Grimsby (now probably redundant) - Grimsby is on the east coast, in north Lincolnshire, Lancashire is on the west coast, so definitely NOT near to each other, and unlikely to be the relevant connection.
Happy hunting.
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Having read through the whole thread again, I think we are looking for a relationship, if any, between the witnesses and the couple, so that we might find something more about the couple.
Is that so Ewan?
We have a possible connection between the second witness - a Jean/Jane Heather - and Thomas Davis. She and her husband are living in 1841 close to where Thomas and Maria are living in the 1851. Thomas and Richard Heather are both employed in the brewing industry. The Heathers are in Chiswick in the 1851. The Lewis family (Maria) are in Chiswick in 1841 also. A bit like changing places!
So far we haven't found Daniel. Might it be worth having a look around Hogarth Place or Chiswick for him?
Does anyone know anything about the brewing trade/industry in that area in the 1840s?
This is getting to be more like a pint in that jazz pub in Barnes that I used to frequent (was it the Bull?) than a cup of tea at Ewan's ::) ::) ::) ::)
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
I imagine Ewan might be at work,so permit me to answer for him(as I suggested witness links to him in the first place ;D)
Yes that is exactly what we need- a way of finding out where Maria Lewis is in 1841- the marr cert of 1843 has her dad Henry as deceased-(oops no he's not- see below!) and it proving impossible to trace her as her place of birth the 1851 and 1871 censuses is impossible to read.
Thomas was married before and in 1841 is living with wife number 1.So we have found him but not Maria.
I've tried 1841 for Daniel Roth* and can't see anyone that fits the bill(have also tried Both* just incase.
With enough heads together we might just crack this......and then it'll be champagne and caviar round Ewans...............is that okay mate? ;D ;D ;D
Carol
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Hi Carol
I've added an alternative venue to Ewan's tea party in my previous posting ;D
Do you have the refs for the 1851 and 1871 so that I can have a look at Maria's birthplace please. I could look but it would be quicker with the refs.
Thanks.
Gadget - still on laptop - too hot already in computer room - now attached a mouse!
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Hello Hello
I just can't keep up with you experts, as fast as I am trying to digest your ideas, there is more to read FANTASTIC. :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
I was going to say as we have established names of the witnesses, it is a
case of hunting them down in censuses to see if there is a connection. Exactly what you have been doing between you.
Did you see the thread about the other Lewis family from The Mall Chiswick, could it be coincidence that a Maria Lewis living with other Lewises or could she be related in any way?
Carol, just to mention, on the Maria Lewis of 1843 marriage certificate it doesn't say that her dad, Henry, was deceased.
You're right this is getting more like a pint than a cup of tea. So if this is cracked I will do cartwheels, mow the lawn and get down and buy some caviar.
What could be revealed by finding out about the brewing trade etc in the 1840s?
Perhaps I could try and follow that lead.
I did have a cousin that actually worked in that brewery (Fullers)
Thanks again
Ewan
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Hi Ewan
Inspectors Carol and Gadget are on the case - PMing - I was going to have a look for Henry this minute!
When did Maria die - found an interesting widow on the 1881 but she says born Barnet, Hertfordshire :o
Gadget
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Hello, bow, curtsy- inspectors
Maria Thomas nee Lewis died aged 59, buried 24.07.1871. Through my contacts as Chiswick Church they told me there was not a lot of hope in finding her grave as it could have been under a pathway! I suppose it happens.
When I visited the church back last year, my contacts, met me in the church and showed me what they thought was in fact Maria's grave. It was just on the other side of a path behind some railings with other graves. However, it did seem that Thomas Davis was not buried with her as they had another plot number for him. At the time I did not know that he had been married before, so he could have quite possibly been buried with his first missus.
Ewan
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Hi Ewan
Didn't find an appropriate Henry. I think he might well have died given Maria's age. The early certs don't always state deceased.
I'm sure Maria's birthplace is somewhere in Middlesex (well north of the river anyway!) - otherwise a different county name would have been given on the censuses.
I've been pouring over maps - A to Z, OS, old ones. The problem is that the old London maps don't extend that far. I've found this one though:
http://archivemaps.com/mapco/whit1865/whit.htm
You could have a pour over it as well - just click on the squares to enlarge, concentrate on bottom left hand area.
Think my idea of the Bull in Barnes wasn't too far out - perhaps we could get to Kew on the same trip ;D ;D ;D
Gadget
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Hello Gadget
The thing is Maria married quite late in life (30) back in 1843, there must have been a reason for that. Unless of course she was waiting for the man of her dreams in Thomas Davis ;D.
Just to recap:
Thoma Davis born in Chiswick, living there in 1841.
Don't know where he married his first wife Susan, but I bet it was in Chiswick.
Maria Lewis and Thomas Davis married at Hammersmith and then went on to live in Chiswick.
It is only on the 1861 out of the 3 censuses Maria is on that states her as being born in Chiswick.
The only thing I can think of as to the reason why they married in Hammersmith is because Maria was from around there. So I will have a look at those maps and see if anything turns up.
Many thanks for continued help
Ewan :)
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Hi Ewan
I've attached the places of birth for Maria, in case anyone else has ideas. The first looks like Brokeworth and the second Brankhurst or Bankhurst. The 1861, Chiswick, maybe an anomaly.
There's a Batchworth, just SE of Rickmansworth and Buckhurst, north of Woodford in Essex.
Sorry - I think this thread is merging with your 1851 thread now. I've got two computers, each with 4 window open on your case - must be some kind of record.
Gadget :)
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Gadget you are a real star.
It would have taken me 2 weeks to have worked out how to attach those onto the message, thanks for that.
Hopefully as you say, someone may have some ideas.
Looking on my little map again :-[, I see that Batchworth is pretty near where all the action seem to be taking place. And I must say it looks like a cross between Brokeworth and Brockenhurst. If this isn't resolved I think a search through parish records for Batchworth may be in order.
Thanks :)
Ewan
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Found a link to something. It states
BANKHURST Road is situated in the Borough of Lewisham, SE6. Oh dear, South of the River - not my scene ;D ;D ;D
http://www.londontown.com/LondonStreets/bankhurst_road_eed.html
We'll get there :)
Gadget
(now 5 screens on one and 4 on the other - think a coffee break :) )
Just realised the time :o Remember that if they or anyone in the household could write, the enumerator would take what they had written and try to transcribe that --- so.........)
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I've just been flitting between this and your other post on this family - trying to follow the plot!!!
I would suggest that it would be a good idea to concentrate on pinnig her down in 1841, just before her marriage. Your other thread comes up with a possible for her, in the household of Frederick.
When I put her name and dob as 1811 +/- 2 yrs into the Ancestry search for 1841, there are about 12 possibles. Has anyone followed these up to see if any are living with a Dad called Henry, a gardener, ?
Probably you have, but sometimes it is easy to miss the obvious!
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Hi Liz
We have, we have..................
None are living with a Henry - gardener. In fact he's dead, I think. Anyway, I can't find a suitable one at all. The early marriage certs didn't always state the life/death status of fathers.
We only have the one Maria on the 1841 who fits - in terms of age, area and status. The female servant with Frederick in Chiswick. We are now following her up to dicipher her birthplace.
Gadget - patron saint of lost causes, that's me ;)
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Hello Liz and welcome to the plot about a girl called Maria Lewis with a dad, possibly dead, called Henry.
Regarding the Maria Lewis living with a Lewis family in Chiswick, I secretly think ;) that could well be her. Now was she related to them and worked as a female servant, perhaps at Chiswick House, where her husband-to-be worked, or did she just work for them Lewises of whom she lived with?
Any ideas of if/how she was related to them?
Thanks in advance
Ewan
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Hello all
I haven't gone awol ;) I've just run out of ideas.
I keep looking at those 1851 and 71 places of birth and am not 100% convinced that the 71 even begins with a B. Wondered if it might say Markinch(Scotland)?
If she had a 'funny' accent maybe the enumerator wrote down what he thought he heard.
And yes I too have a 6th sense about her doing the cleaning for 'Uncle' Fred in 41 Ewan.
Or as you suggest working as a servant but lodging with her dad's 'family'.
Now to prove it................!!!
Carol
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Hi Carol
I was concerned about the funny B on the 1871 but i compared it with other Bs on the page.
There are masses of B(r)ockworth and Bankhurst Streets, etc. in London - but no places.
There's something like it in Aberdeenshire. I'll go off to SP and have a look.
Also worth noting that Maria was born just before the end of the Napoleonic wars - just a thought.
Gadget
Added - Nearest I can get is a Mary Ann Lewis or Campbell in Forres, (Abd) bpt 1818. Mother an Ann Campbell, probably illegit. Don't think it'sher though. I'n still convince it's Home Counties
Second addition - I've had another good look at the census pages. It is definitely (HtG - stake my life on it) Brokeworth on the 1851 and Bankhurst on the 1871. Problem is that in neither cases does it say 'do' in the County portion :-\ :-\ :'( :'( :-\ :-\
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I'm sure someone has thought of this already, so I apologise in advance if I've not kept up but is it worth looking for the Lewis family Mary Ann was with in 1841 in 1851 - if they are related their places of birth might help.
Pinetree
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I'm sure I have ,but am looking again now just incase. Head of house in 1841 is 54 year old Freaderick Lewis and his occupation is 'navy'.
Wife is 35 and they have a 1mth old unnamed baby,as well as older kids. I think he was probably married before.
Carol
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Hi Pinetree
Ann or Carol did that on the other thread. (think it might even be worth merging the two, it's getting a bit awkward jumping between them) ;)
She could be Frederick's neice or something - I have that in one of my familes - parents die and daughter taken in by relatives as a servant :(
Gadget
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Hi Guys
Gadget just asked if it was possible to merge the two threads.
Unfortunately, it would make an incomprehensible mess - the posts in a merged thread are ordered chronologically.
I agree though that you are in danger of duplication.
BUT you needed this thread in order to post images
So
I am going to suggest that you consider this thread locked
and make contributions on the other thread.
If you need to post more images, do so on a new thread , but as always, cross reference them by adding the URL of one to t'other.
All further replies should be on http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,176237.0.html
Hope this sorts your dilemma
kind regards, Arranroots ;)