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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: jillruss on Friday 30 June 06 13:36 BST (UK)
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I'd be interested to know if many people have come across glaring mistakes in Parish Records?
I may be clutching at straws here! ???
When I found my ELIZABETH STUBBS (nee SIMON) on the 1841 census she had a couple of lodgers living with her by the name of SIMON - same as her maiden name.
This got my interest and I discovered only one other SIMON family living nearby. It's only a small place - Longford near Moreton Say in Shropshire.
By using the IGI , I discovered that the 2 lodgers were the eldest sons of this other family, headed by THOMAS SIMON.
Now, please stay with me here! This Thomas Simon gave Hodnet, Shrops (near Longford) as his birthplace on the 1841 census, and there is an IGI which gives his baptism in 1793 in Hodnet, son of JOHN SIMON and MARY.
My problem is that there are 6 possible siblings for THOMAS SIMON in Hodnet:-
Mary (1) 1784 died 1785
Anne 1785
John 1787
George 1788
Mary (2) 1791
James 1794
BUT they're all down as children of JOHN SIMON and SARAH, including the last one - James - so there's no question of JOHN snr having remarried!
I can find a likely marriage on the IGI for JOHN and SARAH but nothing for JOHN and MARY.
Finally! my question is - is it likely that the parish clerk made a mistake writing that THOMAS was the son of JOHN and MARY when it should have been JOHN and SARAH? Am I clutching at straws?
What I'm trying to establish, having found that ELIZABETH SIMON ( the one with the lodgers!!) was baptised in 1816 in Moreton Say base born daughter of MARY SIMON, is that this MARY could have been THOMAS' sister, baptised Hodnet in 1791!!!
I hope I've managed to make that all as clear as possible! I'd really appreciate some input on this from some more experienced family historians as I feel as though I'm going round in ever decreasing circles - and we all know what happens then!! :-X
Jill
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It sounds as though is could be a possible mistranscription even read from badly written handwriting.
However, my opinion and I think it would be backed up by the majority of us researchers, would be to use the IGI as a guideline only. Never take its accuracy for granted until you have looked at the original for yourself.
You are a bit far away from Shropshire to simply nip around the corner to their Record Office but on the LDS Site you can search to find your nearest centre and order a copy of the film to view and make the decision for yourself. http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHC/frameset_fhc.asp?PAGE=library_fhc_find.asp
Mary
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Hello Jill,
Well, for what it's worth, there is a family in my tree where upon baptism (according to the PRs, not IGI) the mother's maiden name was recorded as Mary Larthram (child 1); Mary Lanham (child 2); Sarah Larlham (child 3); Mary Lartham (child 4); Molly Latham (child 5).
(It was definitely the same woman each time. She was my 5x g-grandmother and I still don't know exactly what her name was!).
So it seems entirely possible that parish clerks could and did make errors as to the names of the parents and that Mary and Sarah could be mixed up. Of course this doesn't prove things one way or another in your case, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility that Thomas was a sibling of the other Simon children you have found.
Anna :)
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Hi Jill
You do really need to see the parish records, or have someone look at them for you. This is where a local Family History Society can come in handy. I've just joined Hampshire in hope...but I'm not holding my breath. Some of them will do look ups for you.
Another point, It's been said, the IGI is not perfect. My own experience, John Denchfield married Mary. Right, which Mary, I have a choice, John Denchfield married, Mary Gurney, Mary Garney, Mary Thorn.... Luckily I had access to the records and found it was Mary Gurney.
Looking at those same records, I have also found that sometimes there were mistakes. No not the parish clerk, but the bods involved, and the name of the mother/father is not always the one you would expect. I have one family, mother and daughter who seem to have been literally, anyone's for the asking. Father is not always husband, so in your case, perhaps mother was not wife.
Again, did she have a second name, Mary Sarah/Sarah Mary?
And yes,there were cloth eared clerics, or ones who had their mind elsewhere. Denchfield Baker, occupation ...Baker...He was a butcher for goodness sake, his name was Baker!
Hope this has given you some ideas and not added to the confusion.
Good luck,
Paula
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Thank you all for your helpful suggestions. It seems from what Anna has experienced that Mary could be Sarah, but I'll have to try and check the PRs.
Are the films which you order from the LDS actual photos of the original PRs themselves or a transcription?
I've looked in the telephone directory and there's a LDS Family History centre in Hull which is only about 10 miles away. Is there a limit on how many films you can request, and I suppose you have to give them a bit of notice?
Jill
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The films that you order from LDS are actually filmed copies of the actual registers and not transcriptions. You may even and see your ancestors own signature on the marriage entry!
Jean
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It is better to telephone ahead and arrange an appointment.
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Sometimes the LDS has not been given permission to film the original parish registers, but they may have secured permission from a records office to film the Bishops Transcripts of these registers (which are obviously transcripts!) Where possible, they have filmed the originals, but it depends on the attitude of the churches concerned.
There is a small charge for each film you order, but I've never heard of a limit on the number you can order at one time. I've never tried to order more than two or three at once!
MarieC
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I can't wait to try it out!
I suppose - if the LDS have filmed the original PRs - it's possible that I may find out extra info, as you do sometimes when you find the actual PR? i.e. in a marriage, the parish of each party, whether previously widowed etc.
Wish me luck! Thanks again for the advice - I feel I may have discovered a whole new line of enquiry ( I sound like Sherlock Holmes now, but you know what I mean!)
Jill
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Of course we wish you luck Sherlock and we know exactly what you mean, since our hobby is all about investigations ;D
Don't forget to let us know what you turn up, fingers crossed for those extra details.
Mary
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I hope it's okay to ask yet another question about the LDS films.
If they are films of the PRs, why is it that there can be some missing? I'm thinking of a recent case-
According to the IGI, Eton in Bucks is covered for the period I was searching for the baptism of Elizabeth Allen, but she wasn't there. I later requested a name search from Bucks FHS (fantastic service) and there she was - baptised in Eton in 1779!
Will Elizabeth be on the film even though she's not on the website? If not, any idea why?
Jill.
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Hi Jill
Regarding your last question - not every film that the LDS have is included in the IGI; There could also have been errors when the index was being transcribed so some entries may be missing; there are also a number of batches that contain females only - yet the films contain both sexes; Sometimes the LDS have both the parish registers and the Bishop's transcripts and have only indexed the later - I have found a couple of errors in BTs - another level of transcription ;D
When you are looking at the films, check the burials - these are not indexed by the LDS so having the film is a chance to look for death information as well as births and marriages.
I have encountered one error in a register where the Father's name was correct but the mother incorrect. The person listed as mother was actually the grandmother (she was over 60 years old at the time of the baptism AND the child's middle name was that of his real mother's maiden name; so had to be an error).
Trish
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I have a ckear case where the original handwritten PR is incorrect.
It gives adfferent mother for my gt gt gt grandfather James to his other siblings.
All other oevidence supports him being a fulll brother to Albert
NO other James Douglasses married in Chertsey. In addition my grandfather's notes support his having same father
So I believe PRs can be wrong
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There is another point to take note of when you check the entries and that is the "Abode" column if there is one.
I recently searched for a baptism and discovered that there wasn't a church in the village at the time I was interested in, ceremonies apparently took place at the church in the next village about 2 miles away.
There were many entries with the same surname and I thought I might not be able to identify the one I was interested in, but the "Abode" column helped me clarify the entry since I gave the village I wanted. It's worth comparing the entry you are puzzled over with the others and make sure all other details match, not every column is noted on the IGI.
Mary
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Probably worth pointing out that some FHS have parish records available on fiche or CDRom. However, they do depend upon the skill of the person doing the transcribing and whilst some people are rightly remembered for their high accuracy, that is not always the case. As they are dealing with parish clerks of varying degrees of literacy, we must make allowances, but the key thing is to make your own mind up by consulting the original record.
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Here's more information for what it's worth.
If you have found the entry for your Ancestor on the IGI - where it says Source Information: Source Call Number - click on to the appropriate year - You will then see what is available - Parish Records - BT's etc.
Sarra