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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Norfolk => England => Norfolk Lookup Requests => Topic started by: sad on Saturday 17 June 06 20:45 BST (UK)
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Tom William Gee (b 1838 Ireland) to Kezia Naylor (b 1835 Gressenhall ) Ist child George Gee (b Norwich 1851) .
I would be very grateful if anyone is able to locate this marriage on PRecords no sign of it otherwise. They later moved to Lancashire.
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Hi Sad,
I can't spot them on any census to check their ages. Wouldn't they have been a little young at age 13 and 15 to have a child?
Tanja :)
OK - Have found them now in 1871. Kezia born 1835 Dereham. George was born 1857. By 1880, she's age 50.
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Sorry I was looking at some uncorrected notes. George was born in 1859. Making Kezia 24 and Tom 21 when he was born I have them in the 1871 census in Newchurch Lancashire (Tom 32. Kezia 36. George 14.) but can't find them in 1861
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Do you have George's birth cert? I see there is a 10 year gap with the next child...
I can't find him in 1861 with parents Tom and Keziah. The nearest I see is a boy at Knapton Norfolk, son of a Thos Cook Gee age 34 born Knapton, Ag lab, and Ruth age 29 born Paston. Will have another look but am surprised by the fact he's named Thos Cooke Gee, just like one of Tom and Keziah's children...
Where do you have Keziah's maiden name from, may I ask?
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I have Kezia's other children,Tom Cook Gee and Edith Mary Gee's birth certificates and both say maiden name of mother is Naylor. It was only when I saw the 1871 I realised there was George because he had left home by 1881. I know about the Knapton ones and I too am flummuxed with the coincidence of the Tom Cooke but as yet have not found a connection.
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I'm very puzzled. You have checked the complete BMD indexes, haven't you?
I can't see Keziah in 1851 or 1861.
There is one possible in East Dereham in 1841, but the age is not clear. It's 10 or 16 :-\
Sorry I'm no help :(
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Thats the problem I have. I cannot see any sign of them before the 1871. However there are Naylors in Gressenhall ( which is sometimes her Place of Birth in the various census) I was hoping someone might live inear Gressenhall and might have access to church records.
Thanks a lot for taking the time and trouble to look it up for me.
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Don't know if this confuses the issue or not, but found this Thomas Coke Gee in the 1851 census
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Regards
Yokel
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Thanks. Again cannot find this connection in my Gee's but will make a note. You never know.
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Probably Tom's brother if I ever get further back than 1851
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This gets worse! or better, depending what way you look at it!!!!!!! ;D
Gressenhall Register Transcription has lots of Naylor/Nailor entries and one Keziah was baptised in 1825 but none around 1835.
No marriage of Kezia to Tom Gee.
Checking the 1841 census of Gressenhall (as well as the Workhouse in the village) we see several Nailor/Naylor entries but no Kezia of the right age. There is a James and Keziah, both 60 in 1841, so very likely connected. ;)
On checking the Banns register for Dereham 1816-1855, we see:
Thomas Coke Gee, single and Ann Perkins single both OTP in Feb 1831 and the same couple agaion in Nov 1831! Then in Nov 1834 Banns were published of Thomas Cook Gee (wid) and Hannah Rix single, both OTP. This couple were married on Christmas Day.
So this information gives you even more to get confused with. :o :o :o
Sorry.
Teddy
(In Gressenhall) ;)
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As you say even more to get confused about.I have been trying to sort this out for years and thought the 1841 census would give me all the answers but as you say it doesn't!
I thought that my main problem was going to be Tom being born in Ireland, but Kezia doesn't appear to have been born or died at least anywhere that would tie in with other information we have.
Thanks for your time. Again I will save the information it ma come in!!
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A question Teddy! Are there gravestones at the Church in Gressenhall?
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Is there a chance that the 1861 census could be wrongly worded.
If you look at the original on Ancestry. Kezia. William and George are at the bottom of the household. With the wrong relationships to householder and the wrong ages but a bit of a coincidence with the names!!??
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I have Kezia's other children,Tom Cook Gee and Edith Mary Gee's birth certificates and both say maiden name of mother is Naylor. It was only when I saw the 1871 I realised there was George because he had left home by 1881. I know about the Knapton ones and I too am flummuxed with the coincidence of the Tom Cooke but as yet have not found a connection.
Not sure I've kept up with all of this but could George have been Thomas's child by his first marriage to Ruth? As there seems to be a big gap before the next children with Kezia maybe this is a second later marriage. In this case Kezia may also have been married before so may not have married Mr Gee under her maiden name of Naylor.
Pinetree
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That's what I wondered too Pinetree.
Also, was he really born in Ireland (he's dittoed from the previous household) or could it be a mistake by the enumerator?
Very mysterious.
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its amazing what others see that should stare me in the face. I have found George under the name Naylor in 1861 census so I have sent for his birth certificate which may or not shed light on this confusion
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Are you talking about the one age 7 mo in Gressenhall?
I somehow thought he wasn't very likely:
a. the grandparents, James and Ann, have a daughter Keziah age 3 - not sure how likely it would be for them to have another daughter Keziah
b. His age and birthplace don't match the 1871 census.
Also ... can somebody else have a look at the 1881? RG11/4126 62 14
1871 has her birthplace as Dereham and
1881 doesn't seem to have enough letters to say Gressenhall, does it? :P
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I have just looked at the 1881 index and it says Gresswell. I haven't got Ancestry so cant see the original.
On Free BMD there is a Thomas Cook Gee who married a Maria Morgan in Bedminster in Sep 1863.
There was a George Nailor baptised in Gressenhall in in 1859, the son of George & Elizabeth.
Sorry, just looked at the 1861 and see that this George was with his parents so the one with grandparents could still be yours!
Just looked on Free BMD again and there were two George Naylors born in Mitford at the right sort of date. (I work in the same building as the Registrar if you want the certs I can get them for £7 a piece ;D).
There were lots of Nailor/Naylor families in the village at that time.
There was even a Keziah aged six buried in 1864. :(
Keep looking
Teddy ;)
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Well you can forget my theory about Thomas Cook Gee in Knapton being a first marriage to Ruth because they are all still there in 1881 :-[
I think I have found son George Gee in Lancashire in 1881 though - do you already have that?
If not I think he married Maria HALLOWS as there is a George Gee "son-in-law" to head of House (George HALLOWS) age 23 born Norridge, Lancs (should this be Norwich?) at Peel Terrace, Spotland, Lancs. RG11 1341987.
Pinetree
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Yes that is my George I have no problem following him around its his father and mother that are elusive.
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Could Keziah have remarried in Lancs, I notice she was widowed in 1881.
There is a marriage between Keziah Dawson GEE and Richard BARRATT on FreeBMD Sep Q 1883 Haslingden 8e 157. On Lancs BMD the names are given Keezia Dawson GEE and Richard BARRETT Bacup St Johns Preston.
If someone could find this couple on 1891 might confirm whether or not this is her.
Pinetree
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There is a death for Kezia Dawson BARRETT in Haslingden Sep Q 1890 8e 66 age 53 - so forget 1891 census ::)
But this would put her at the right sort of age for your lady - is Dawson a clue?
Pinetree
P.S. If you think there could be a lead here you could post on Lancs board for a look-up of the 1883 marriage.
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This Keziah Dawson Gee Barrett has come up before but I didn't pursue it. I will now thanks for your suggestions.
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Sorry, I'm confusing even more :P
Have you seen this in 1861?
RG9/1210 159 5
Norwich St Michael at Coslany
Keziah Dawson, serv, 33, servant, b. Dereham
George Dawson, son, 3, b. Norwich
Her marital status is not clear. It's either 's' or dittoed 'mar'.
in the household of John Wilsea, Cordwainer.
I think I can trace this woman back to 1851 in East Dereham, Norfolk, married to Charles.
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Oh my goodness! Where do I start now with all these suggestions I am more confused than ever.I need to wait for the birth certificate of George although I am less inclined to believe its the right one now.
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There is a marriage reference Jun Q 1842 Mitford District Norfolk where Charles Dawson and Kezia Nailor both appear (along with others) :o ??? :o
How on earth that fits in with Keziah that died in 1890 age 53 I don't know unless it is the same lady and she lied to her (3rd???) husband about her age.
Pinetree
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Oh my god! And the Charles Dawson we are talking about claims to be a widower in 1871 :o ::) :P What a mess!
How can you tell you have the right birth reference for George, Sad? :P
I see you think he was born ca. 1859 but all the census we have seen so far show him born ca. 1857 ???
I can imagine you wish you hadn't posted this request by now ;D
Tanja :)
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Dont forget my offer of getting the certs from the Mitford Regiters Office.
They normally write them out while I wait!
Best wishes.
Teddy
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Thanks for that offer, I won't forget I am in the process of trying to sort out the information I have past and present to see where I am up to. Sue
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Lots happeneing with this question since I was last on here. I contacted a Gee family historian who is convinced that my Keziah was married to a Dawson this would then give me the George Dawson that appears on the 1861 in Norwich St Michael. I haven' made the connection yet. I sent for a certificate for a George that I thought might be the correct one but I was way out.
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Hi Teddybear
Hope you don't mind me asking :- ref Kezia Naylor I now think that she got married to a Charles Dawson in Mitford c Jun 1/4 1842. Do you have access to these registers?Not sure about the Church but she had lived in E Dereham until then has had Charles.
She could have had 2 children Frances and Charles before she decamped and was next found with my George Dawson (who later became a Gee)in 1861 as a servant in Norwich St Michael.
Hope you can help Sue
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Hi
I have Dereham Banns which mention
Charles Dawson single of this Parish
Kerzia Naylor single of this Parish
Banns first published 1st May
Married 18 May 1842
I am going to the NRO on Wednesday, do you want me to look at the register to see the father's names?
In 1851, now we are looking for Dawson, we see:
Dumpling Green, Dereham
Charles Dawson 29 Farming Lab Westfield
Keziah 25 Wash Woman Dereham
Charles 2 Dereham
Frances 9mos Dereham
Hope that helps.
Teddy ;)
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Yes please. Anything will help. This woman is a disaster, not only does she end up with lots of children but 3 husbands. She changes her age for each census. I just need more than coincidences. I presume the children mentioned on the 1851 census died or else I am on the wrong track altogether.
I think Kezia's parents are William and Maria Naylor. Heres hoping. Thanks again Sue
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At Last I hear you cry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I went to Norwich today.
I looked at the film of the Dereham Parish Registers.
I found 1842.
BUT
I forgot that the registers for Dereham were buried during the second world war "for safe keeping".
They are VERY difficult to read but it does appear that Charles was 21 and Kezia was (?) They were both of Dereham and Kezia was a servant. Parents APPEAR to be Thomas for Charles and William for Kezia.
Witnesses appear to be William Nailer and ..... Boulter.
As I said, the registers are in a terrible state and the film is just about illegible.
Best wishes.
Teddy
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I thought you had forgotten!
Thanks that does help the
The Gee family Historian I mentioned before has a lot of Information and has given me some of the NRO ref s. William certainly fits in. Thankyou. Still looking for the 2nd wedding of Kezia to Thomas William Gee now. She must have got married as Kezia Dawson to Thomas. I just need to know where.
Thankyou for your help up to now.
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Don't know if this query is still ongoing but I found Charles Dawson (son of Kezia and Charles Dawson) born 1849 at East Dereham in a Boys Home in Norwich on the 1861 Census.
Cheers, PP
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Thanks PP Yes I did find this and in fact have visited the workhouse recently but the records dont exist from that time apparently.He had a sister too. Charles later turns up married about 1881 I think although without looking at the records I have- I can't remember where. But lets hope there was a happy ending. Sue
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Yes, there was a sister Frances Dawson wasn't there? What happened to her?
I found Charles Dawson Junior living with his wife in Essex in 1871 and then the couple were in Yorkshire in 1881 I think, having had a few children born in Lancashire.
Cheers, PP
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I lost Francis around 1891 she was single then and lived in Norwich St Peter. However you have rekindled my interest so I will have a look at the 1901.
The father Charles was in the Gressenhall workhouse. I hadn't reralised Charles jnr and Ann moved to Lancashire. That is where Keziah ended up( in Bacup )I will have a look later if I get chance. As usual this branch of my family has been neglected for a while, although I spent some time in Norwich last year looking for the Gee side of the family.
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Happy to send you census images if you want to exchange e-mail addresses by PM.
Cheers, PP