RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => South Africa => Topic started by: HistoryTeam on Sunday 07 May 06 15:57 BST (UK)
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In trying to trace my Family Tree I am trying to make contact with relatives - the decendants of brothers David, William, John, and James Wilson who left East Belfast around the late 1920s or early 1930s to live in South Africa. Their father was David Wilson and mother Elizabeth Agnes Wilson nee Larmour.
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I am led to believe that David Wilson an ancestor of mine was one of the founders of this company in the 1920/30's. I am seeking any further information about David Wilson's ancestors and also the Phoenix Foundry.
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Hello
My Great Gran (Mary Larmour (Minnie) Wilson) was David's sister.....
It is my understanding that there were 5 sons of David Wilson (the senior)in Belfast David, William, John, James (whom I remember vaguely from a visit to NI in the 70's) and Herbert plus 2 girls.....Mary(Minnie) my GG and Elizabeth (Lily)..
I am told that all of the boys left for SA at about the same time.....
I can tell you that Mary Died in 1976...Lily in 1983 (James was alive in SA to send his regrets....
Are you able to fill in any of the other blanks....I would absolutely love to fill in some of the blanks of my SA relatives.....(I guess you are one of them)
I think I can fill in a few blanks for you on the Northern Ireland Wilson's.
Really looking forward to hearing from you
Alan Campbell
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Can you give us any more specific details eg birthdates and second names as this may help us to trace them through death notices.
many thanks
Ruth
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Sorry for the delay in replying Ruth - I've been contacting one or two family members in search of additional relevant information but without much success I'm afraid.
The story seems to be as follows:-
The mother and father - David Wilson (b.1859d.1942) and Elizabeth Agnes Wilson (nee Larmour b.1860d.1940) appear to have left Belfast and lived in South Africa from about 1928-1931 and then returned to Belfast. They had 7 children (not sure of exact order) - Mary Larmour (my Grandmother b.1883d.1976), David, William, John, James, Elizabeth Agnes (b.1900d.1960), and Herbert (d.c.1966).
David (son) appears to have been around 19 when he went to SA (Johannesburg early 1930's - a guess - during the depression) and eventually, with others, founded the Pheonix Foundary. John, I understand, settled somewhere on the east coast of SA. William also went to SA and settled in Port Elizabeth. James also seems to have settled in Johannesburg. Elizabeth Agnes and her husband John Richard White also spent some years in SA before returning to live in N. Ireland. Mary Larmour and Herbert remained in N. Ireland.
Not sure if any of this will help search.
Thank you for your interest
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Did have any second names at all?
Ruth
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Sorry not aware of any second names. All I can add is:-
David's first wife was called Alice and they had two children called Charmaine and Romona. His second wife was called Edith not aware of any children.
William married Elizabeth and had two sons William and David.
John married Margaret and they had two children William and Elizabeth.
James married Adelaide and I know of at least one child (a son) called Boyd.
Regards
John
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Why did they have to have such very unusual names!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Makes searching very difficult!
Ruth
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Life is complicated!!
Have emailed a relative in Canada in search of more Christian names - will come back if I get anywhere.
Thanks
John
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May I make a suggestion...
Why not join the Rootsweb mailing list South Africa British immigrants for a time and post the query regarding the family and see what you come up with. Of you google phoenix foundry and za you get a street listing for it as a national monument.
Being a Natal resident I dont know too much about Johannesburg history!
Ruth
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Thanks Ruth.
Leave it with me.
John
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Hello,
My name is Jennifer (maiden name Wilson), however my father was from Aberdeen Scotland. The reason I am writing is not because of the name Wilson, but the Phoenix Foundry in Johannesburg.
My Grandfather Robert Angles Muir from Blackburn in England together with his partner (his name escapes me now) owned the Phoenix Foundry. My grandfather arrived in South Africa around 1909 -1910. He passed away in 1929. I still have pieces of brass in our home today made by my grandfather in the foundry. I am not sure if the partner carried on after grandad's death or whether it was sold on to your family.
I hope this is a little help to you.
Regards
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Jennifer - you've taken me by surprise with your response - this thread originated in 2006 when I'd just begun my Family Tree research and I'd forgotten all about it!!! :)
At that time I successfully made contact with relatives Mike & Sandy (his late wife) Wilson in SA and by sharing information we constructed a reasonable Wilson Family Tree. At the time Mike & Sandy sent me a photo of the now derelict Phoenix Foundry. My Paternal Grandmother (Mary Campbell nee Wilson) had four brothers who went to SA possibly in the 1920s. David Wilson (b1881 d1956), the eldest, is reputed (along with other partners unknown to me) to have been a founder of the Phoenix Foundries (I am led to believe there may have been more than one Foundry). Mike, mentioned above, is a Grandson of one the other brothers who went to SA.
The name Robert Angles Muir has not arisen in my research so far. Most of my sketchy information about the Phoenix Foundry comes from an elderly aunt still living in Canada. I'm not clear exactly when David went to SA but my Aunt seemed to think the 1920s - possibly following WWI - or could it have been earlier? (Do you, by any chance, have a date for the establishment of the Foundry?) My Aunt also believes that David's daughter eventually inherited the Foundries. Encouragingly, your data seems to reasonably support/resemble my own.
Your Wilson maiden name is just a coincidence - you don't believe you are connected to my Wilsons?
Good to hear from you and thank you for your response, information and help.
John Campbell
N Ireland
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John
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My apologies for not having written for a couple of weeks. I have, however, been in touch with a cousin in Australia who emigrated some 36 years ago. Anyway, she has far more information about our family tree than I have.
She told me that our grandfather's partner was one Davy Wilson who I assume would be your relative. We don't have any knowledge of the partnership but Avryl did tell me that when our grandmother passed away in 1956 she had the task of going round all the wreaths and collecting the notes and there was a wreath from Davy Wilson. I don't know if you know when you relative died. It seems as though our grandfather's were in business together. I would love to go to Johannesburg to see where the Foundry is, however, it is not a safe area these days. We live in a town called Springs where a lot of the gold mines were in the early days and I believe the foundry made a lot of whatever it was that the mines needed. In those days it was a 2 day oxen trek to move the part; it now takes 40 minutes into Johannesburg from Springs.
I am very interested in keeping up to date with your search so I will continue to check on whatever you post. If you have any further questions I can always put them to my cousin. She may or may not know the answers.
Having re-read your last reply to me I see that you said David Wilson died in 1956 the same year as my grandmother, I think my grandmother died in the January/February.
I don't know if my Wilson family is connected to your Wilson family. My paternal grandfather was also one David Wilson he married a Jessie Watt(s)? they had 3 sons, the eldest Harold Wilson, David Monroe Wilson and my father Norman Burness Wilson. My grandfather was a watchmaker & jeweller in Aberdeen. The three boys all came to Africa, Harold ended up in Rhodesia, married and had 3 children Hugh, Morag and Forbes. David married a Scottish lass Florence, they had two daughters Mary and Elaine and my dad Norman came to SA in 1936 when he was 18 years old.
When the second world war broke out he joined the SA forces and was de-mobbed in 1945. My mum and dad married in 1952, I was born in 1953. Dad passed on in 1984, mum in 2003. David was the second to die and Harold the eldest the last.
If you come across any of my Wilson's in your search I would love to hear from you. One day, when I retire I would like to trace my paternal family tree.
I believe there was a black sheep somewhere in our family who was shipped from Ireland to a prison in Scotland, he escaped from the prison and where he ended up is anybody's guess. Not even sure what his name was.
Look forward to hearing more news from your search.
Regards
Jennifer
Jennifer
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Hi Jennifer,
Many thanks for your very interesting reply which seems to confirm and significantly enlarge the scanty information I had relating to the Phoenix Foundry.
I have never been to SA and have never actually met my Wilson relatives who helped me with my research - they live in Johannesburg. Actually we shared information by email as I had some details they didn't have and vice versa.
I have checked the Wilson names you have given but unfortunately they don't seem to relate to my Wilson Family Tree. But the 'Wilson' surname is certainly quite a coincidence!!
I (think) I have sent you a PM (Private Message) - I've never actually done this on RootsChat.com before so hopefully I've done it correctly. Please confirm.
John
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Jennifer has to make 3 posts before you can send her a PM.
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Thank you for your advice pampoen.
Hopefully Jennifer will read your message next time she visits RootsChat.com.