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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: bullym on Monday 12 June 06 00:39 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help me. The MURRAY family of AIRDRIE LANARKSHIRE. Is there anyway to look up a family on the 1841 Scottish census. Have come to a complete blank with my family search. Most grateful of any help.
Anyone wanting any help with the Grant and Sherwin families in OZ let us know. bullym
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There are many of them living in Airdrie - Do you have any given names/ages of interest?
Trish
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Thanks for replying Trish. My ggranfather came out to OZ in 1860 via La Gaily Mauritius from Airdrie. His birth was 1822??? and name JOHN MURRAY Engineer (birth of his son he is named John Murray father). He married a Elizabeth Neill (from Lanarkshire Scotland) in Mauritius. I have the original birth certificate of his son with his name and wife's name being born in Airdrie Lanarkshire Scotland.
Any help would be gratefully appreciated.
bullym
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I'm not having alot of joy. There are two John Murrays born c. 1821 (Ages are rounded down to closest 5 years). One was born in Ireland & is living with a group of people from ireland, so can probably be discounted.
The other, was born in County (which is all that is available) and is working as a Publican Inner, address Chappell St Airdrie - The majority of people in the same establishment are named Falconer - appears to be mother Catherine (Grocer) and a number of adult children / various occupations - so he would probably be a lodger/boarder.
Do you have his Australian Death certificate/Index with any parent names - the other names in Airdrie (born in county) are Ann Charles Christina Elizabeth Grace Helen Hugh James Janet Margaret Mary William.
No sign of Elizabeth in Airdrie - but lots from other parts of Lanarkshire.
Trish
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Dear Trish, I have a birth cert of their son Harold born 30.8.1867 to parents
John Murray Engineer age 38 years
married 28.8.1860 La Gaily Mauritius born Lanarkshire Scotland and
Elizabeth Wingate formerly Neill age 35 years born Lanarkshire Scotland.
This certificate of their son (my ggranfather) of his birth was in Tinana Creek district Wide Bay Maryborough in state of Queensland.
They arrived Queensland on Ship GOLDEN CITY date 3.1.1865
with their ages Elizabeth 33
John 35
another John 30
and Jane 3years old
This is all I have been able to find.
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Dear Trish,
Just found John Murray died 8.5.1909 and
Elizabeth Wingate Neil Murray died 15.5.1908.
She died Maryborough Queensland so gather he might have died also in Maryborough Q.
bullym
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Hi BM
I just checked the Qld CD and found Elizabeth's death - father given as James Neill, no mother but the date you have given for John does not exist. The only John from 1909 was June 22, John Patrick Murray
(They certainly lived long lives :) :) )
There are some siblings for John Jnr born in Qld - Do you have them?
James Oswald 1871 Harold 1867 Margaret Dundas 1866
Given that last name, there is a John Murray death registered 11 May 1907, parents James Murray and Margaret Dundas. Have to go out - I'll look for these names in the census this evening.
Trish
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Hi Trish,The Harold John born 1867 is my grandfather. He died I think in 1942 in Mosman Sydney.
My fathers name was Carlyle Norman Murray born 1900 and my eldest brother's name is Harold Grahme Murray. Margaret is my first name so one could say definitely keeping the names all in the family.
Margaret Dundas married George Frederick Lewis Vaughan 1892 and died 13.10.01. Had son Oswald Frederick Vaughan born 27.01.1893. Cant find anything about Jane Neall or Neil born 1861 and James Oswald Murray only know he was born 8.5.1871.
The parents you have found James Murray and Margaret Dundas certainly look right. Thanks a lot for all of this. Am truly grateful, It has been a long haul. The Murrays have definitely been the hardest of all to track down. The other side of the family (Grants and Sherwins) were a breeze compared to Murray. I think once I establish John Harold's parents it will hopefully become a lot clearer.
James Neil is Elizabeth's (the third of 5 children) father and her mother is Margaret Montgomerie both born and died born about 1788 in Riccarton Ayr, Scotland
Regards bullym
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Hi BM
The Scots were very good at using the naming patterns so that is often very helpful in working out families. I have Scottish ancestors & they followed the rules until the families from 1870 onwards.
When you have saved up :) :) transcriptions of NSW certificates cost $15 and death certificates are especially good - they contain parents, marriage and children! I think the Victorian ones are much the same - they can be downloaded online for about $17. Qld you have to buy by snail mail & they are $25 or thereabouts, but are also very useful.
Have you tried freecen for the Scotland data - I'm not sure what is available but think 1841 is almost complete. Meanwhile, I'll see if I can find any track of James and Margaret in 1841.
Trish
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Thanks Trish for all your work on this side of the family. As one of four children I seem to be the only one interested in finding my roots. My brother has the original flag of the Murray clan and also the seal of the mermaid on the rock which is the Murray family emblem. These have been handed down to the eldest son through the generations as far as I can gather.
If you find out anymore could you please let me know and if I get anymore bits and pieces I will do the same.
Once again thanks for your time.
bullym
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Hi BM
I'm wondering if your John Murray was younger than you thought? If he arrived here 1860 - would he have been about 40? I have found a family on the 1841 that has possibilities, but the John is much younger. I think you may have to buy some certificates, if you do not definitely know the ages. Anyway - here is the one I found - remember that all adult ages are rounded DOWN to the nearest 4 years
Living London Street Airdrie Lanarkshire
James Kinels 40 Mason
James Murray 30 Mason
John Murray 5
Margaret Murray 30
Robert Murray 1
They ALL must be born OUTSIDE county as Birthplace is given as Scotland. I think it would be given as Lanarkshire if they said born in county.
Best I can find at the minute - good luck with the searching - your family might one day get more interested in searching ;D ;D
Trish
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Dear Trish,
Thanks for the info. The James and the Margaret Murray you have found seem more to fit in with the son John M being 5 years old on the 1841 census. I have he was born 1822 but according to the 41 census he was born about 1836 making him about 24 when he married Elizabeth Neil in Mauritius in 1860. All fitting into place. Finally found he had at least a brother also. Where do I and from whom do I buy the certificates from? Looked Queensland cemeteries records yesterday but couldn't find anything at all. OK getting down to the nitty gritty of it all now. Where do I get records of birth of him, his parents, his death (LDS?),etc. On arrival Brisbane on Golden City in 1865 I have a Elizabeth 33(wife) John 35 another John 30 and Jane 3 so the younger John is my grandfather. I have been going on the older one all along being related, but seems to be right before my eyes all along. Once again thanks for all your help. If you could just let me know where I send off to to get all the certificates I would be very grateful.
bullym
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Hi BM
I'll look up the death details again and get the reference numbers for you - I think it is cheaper to buy Qld certificates if you have the numbers. Then you can print a form off the net, or I think if you phone or email the registry they will post you a form - printing may be easier. The death certificate should say where they were buried so you will know where to go looking ;D
I hope these are the right folks ??? ???
The birth information is definitely worth looking for on the IGI and if found films can be ordered from the LDS. If you have been to your local centre you will know how helpful they can be. I think many of them subscribe to Ancestry, so you could check if you can look up the census there as well. If you haven't been, then it will be a first :)
back later
Trish
This is what MAY be on Qld death certificate (depends what the informant knew)
Deceased's name Date & place of death
Sex, name & occupation
Cause of death & length of illness
Medical attendant's name & when last saw deceased alive
Father's name & occupation Mother's maiden name
Informant's name & relationship
Deceased's children (separately for each marriage, if more than one):
those alive sometimes listed by name & age; otherwise just the number of males and females
those dead usually showing just the number of males and females
Date & place of burial or cremation
Undertaker's name
Minister's name & religion
Birthplace and length of time in australia (sometimes each state)
Marriage place, age at marriage & spouse's name
Date & place of registration
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Elizabeth Wingate Murray died 15 May 1908, Father James Neill, Mother not given, Reg No 1908/B009551 - The B indicates registered in Brisbane.
John Murray died 11 May 1907 father James Murray Mother Margaret Dundas Reg No 1907/B008053.
I found a marriage for Margaret Dundas (Jnr) - married George Frederick Lewis Vaughan 19 Apr 1892 - 1892/ 000810
The Qld registry is http://www.justice.qld.gov.au/bdm/home.htm
Trish