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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: PrueM on Saturday 10 June 06 09:59 BST (UK)

Title: 1841 census - what could this be: "Sp Dealer"?
Post by: PrueM on Saturday 10 June 06 09:59 BST (UK)
Hello all,
Hope you can help me...I've accessed a transcription of the 1841 Scotland census online, and found my g-g-g-grandfather John MILNE living at Tynet in Banffshire.  His occupation has been transcribed as "Sp Dealer". 
Does anyone know what this might mean?  I don't have him on any later census to be able to compare anything.
Any help appreciated  :)
Prue
Title: Re: 1841 census - what could this be: "Sp Dealer"?
Post by: kerryb on Saturday 10 June 06 10:32 BST (UK)
What about Scrap dealer?

Kerry
Title: Re: 1841 census - what could this be: "Sp Dealer"?
Post by: PrueM on Saturday 10 June 06 12:18 BST (UK)
Hi Kerry,
I suppose it could be that.  I wish I could have a look at the original  :'( - I hate these online transcriptions, I never know whether to trust them or not.
Thank you for your input, Kerry  :)
Prue
Title: Re: 1841 census - what could this be: "Sp Dealer"?
Post by: ADP on Saturday 10 June 06 13:21 BST (UK)
Sp. Deal(er)  - Spirit Dealer

It is one of the "standard abbreviations" given in the Enumerators' Instructions for the 1841 census and can be found on the census microfilms, which has been transcribed online at http://www.talkingscot.com/censuses/census-1841.htm

ADP
Title: Re: 1841 census - what could this be: "Sp Dealer"?
Post by: PrueM on Saturday 10 June 06 23:56 BST (UK)
Great!  Thank you, ADP  :) 
Not  having anyone in scotland who has ever been anything but an Ag Lab or Fisherman, I wasn't aware of any of the standard abbreviations, so thank you  :)

Thanks also Kerry - as good a guess as any of mine  :D  :-\

Prue
Title: Re: 1841 census - what could this be: "Sp Dealer"?
Post by: kerryb on Sunday 11 June 06 07:12 BST (UK)
Well I've learnt something too! I rather fancy a Spirit Dealer in my tree, sounds rather grand!!

Kerry :)
Title: Re: 1841 census - what could this be: "Sp Dealer"?
Post by: PrueM on Sunday 11 June 06 08:39 BST (UK)
I wish the family business had continued Kerry ... hic!  ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: 1841 census - what could this be: "Sp Dealer"?
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 11 June 06 10:19 BST (UK)
Well I've learnt something too! I rather fancy a Spirit Dealer in my tree, sounds rather grand!!

Kerry :)

I had one too in Castle Douglas. I think they had a few places there ;D Not direct line but a great x N uncle.

Oh dear, alcies on both sides  :o

It is highly liklely that he left a will Prue. Mine did  and there were some very interesting items. Worth a try.

Gadget
Title: Re: 1841 census - what could this be: "Sp Dealer"?
Post by: ADP on Sunday 11 June 06 10:31 BST (UK)
As far as I can make out, Spirit Dealers were not only wholesalers of spirits. Publicans and grocers selling spirits were also sometimes described as Spirit Dealers.

ADP
Title: Re: 1841 census - what could this be: "Sp Dealer"?
Post by: JAP on Sunday 11 June 06 10:41 BST (UK)
Prue,

Wouldn't want you to become complacent!

One lot of the Spirit Dealers I've come across came from Stirlingshire (Kippen) farm origins.  Then went to the USA (or whatever it was at the time) - who knows why.  Returned to Scotland - Glasgow - and became Spirit and Tea Dealers there (connected with the Southern Necropolis perhaps via the wife's Dad - not to mention becoming bankrupt).   Then to London ... etc.

JAP
Title: Re: 1841 census - what could this be: "Sp Dealer"?
Post by: PrueM on Sunday 11 June 06 12:25 BST (UK)
Thanks for your input everyone  :) :) :)  It's much appreciated!

Gadget, you got me all excited there - I went and searched Scotland's People for a will for John...not a sausage  :'( :'( :'( 
Never mind, wouldn't want to break the habit of a lifetime and find a will for someone in my family  ::)  ;D

Prue
Title: Re: 1841 census - what could this be: "Sp Dealer"?
Post by: Fransmoi on Friday 14 July 06 02:46 BST (UK)
Browsing genea sites as usual at 2a.m I came upon a Harold Milne at Tynet.May be one of yours ?  It is in the Milne family history section of the Portgordon website-
http://rgu-sim.rgu.ac.uk/history/welcome.htm
Good hunting from a fellow Milne hunter.
Fransmoi


Moderator Comment:  URL modified to become a link
Title: Re: 1841 census - what could this be: "Sp Dealer"?
Post by: PrueM on Friday 14 July 06 08:29 BST (UK)
Hi Fransmoi,
Thanks for that link, I hadn't seen that site before.  I've bookmarked it for future reference!
I'm not sure of any link at this point, but I noticed a few names in there that I have in my tree (such as Geddes) so as I get more details of my own family I might be able to tie them in.
Good luck with your own Milne searching!
 :)
Prue
Title: Re: 1841 census - what could this be: "Sp Dealer"?
Post by: Doug-Mini on Saturday 08 October 22 20:20 BST (UK)
I am waking up an old thread as my question is somewhat related to the OP's question.

Was it legal in the 1840s and 1850s for a woman in Scotland to be a Spirit Dealer?

Thank you in advance,
Doug
Title: Re: 1841 census - what could this be: "Sp Dealer"?
Post by: ADP on Saturday 08 October 22 21:08 BST (UK)
There is no indication in the instructions to the census enumerators that Spirit Dealers were likely to be male only. The wording on the instructions is "Add Sp. Deal. to the trade of all persons who are also engaged in vending Spirits."

In one of the other occupations, it is implied that the people are male - that is miners: "Always add the name of the Mineral in which each person is employed to the occupation in which he is engaged. If only general work add M., as "Coal M.," "Copper M.," "Iron M."". There is a distinct reference to "he".

ADP
Title: Re: 1841 census - what could this be: "Sp Dealer"?
Post by: Doug-Mini on Saturday 08 October 22 21:33 BST (UK)
Thank you. 

The person I am researching lists themselves as a Spirit Dealer in the 1841 census and the 1837 Pignot commercial directory.  In a Sasine record and a legal document in my possession the same person is listed as a Sawyer.  I have no doubt that it is the same person.  I need to keep digging to see if I can find an explanation.

Thanks again,
Doug