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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: allycat on Saturday 10 June 06 07:53 BST (UK)
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Dear Rootschatters, Hi. Can anyone help fill in some gaps for me?
John Henry PARKER born abt 1850 ... location unknown in Australia. Died unknown. #
Married Reg.ref. Grenfell NSW 2473/1877 on 8/10/1877 to Eliza B. DINNER aka DENNER born 3/12/1856 Back Ck, Bourke, Taradale VIC. Have Birth cert.#
I have found 8 children so far born to this couple, but my grandmother, who is 93 years old, now tells me she had more uncles and aunts than that! I have no death dates for any of their children either as with a surname like PARKER, it's just like all the others that are hard to find, SMITH, BROWN, WHITE, BLACK etc. (And no spouse's names known either). ???
1.Susan Jane PARKER born 1878 Grenfell NSW 10368/1878
2.Esther PARKER born 1878 Grenfell NSW 11133/1879
3.Caroline PARKER born 3/8/1833 Grenfell NSW 18439/1883 *
4.Ellen E. PARKER born 1887 Grenfell NSW 22194/1887
5.John Henry PARKER (Junior) born 1890 Grenfell NSW 15133/1890 %
6.Phebe A. PARKER born 1892 Grenfell NSW 15481/1892
7.Violet M. PARKER born 1895 Grenfell NSW 3737/1895
8.William PARKER ... born ? ~
Notes:
# It is not known to me when and where John Henry PARKER snr and Eliza B. PARKER nee DENNER/DINNER died.
* Great Grandmother.
% JH PARKER Jnr enlisted at Dubbo. Have no other info...
~ I've been told he was a soldier in the Boer War (but he wouldn't have been born then!) so I suppose it was WWI, but that he was killed in action. Have no factual information on this though. Birth - couldn't find William Parker on NSW bdm births 1880-1900.
Q.Is anyone researching this family?
Thanks everyone, Allycat, QLD Australia.
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Hi Alleycat
The WWI record for your John Henry jnr is online at the archives
www.naa.gov.au - and has been digitised - so if you didn't request same, someone else is definitely researching this family. Go to record search & look for John Henry Parker Grenfell. He was KIA on 6th or 7th of August 1916
Trish
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Hi Trish & Alley,
This is probably a bit of an aside, but I would be grateful for clarification on the subject of NAA files.
Is it true as you say, Alley, that digital copies on the site are only there by request?
I have never been able to quite understand the explanation on the site for digitization and I always thought that some files were digitized as part of an ongoing process - not dependent on request - and others were 'moved to top of digitization queue' because of request.
If what you say [above] is true - about others sharing one's interest in forebears, it becomes a bit of a quest in itself doesn't it!! Thanks for any info.
Sue
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Hi Sue
As far as I have determined digitisation is done by request. The ongoing process that was initially discussed on site as being done as a matter of course was the examination of WWI records . If you check these records alphabetically, those at the front end have all been examined while others have not. e.g. If you look at the Smith records for WWI, you will find only those with digital records have been examined.
If I look at the name Dun (being a family name & I have requested some digitisation) - they have all been examined but only a few digitised. The randomness of the digitisation, indicates to me that it is done on request, while there has been a system used to examine them all.
There is, however this note against the WWI records
The National Archives is undertaking a project to preserve and make the collection of World War I service records more accessible. Already the project has repackaged and reboxed all of the records to ensure their longer term preservation. Also, all records are being listed on our RecordSearch database.
In the remaining phase of the project we will make a digital copy of each record available through RecordSearch. Digital copies have already been loaded for many records and the remainder will be added progressively as the project continues. which seems to invalidate what I have said, but I am unsure if this "remaining phase" has started yet.
I think Prue works there - she may have the definitive answer.
Trish
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That's interesting Trish.
I think we will have to ask Prue to answer for us if she can. NAA such a valuable site. We should all be in a position to give clear information to 'Chatters' from overseas
As you say, it is not really quite clear,but I am not certain about your alphabetical theory.
I had a bit of a fright the other day when I found a deceased uncle's records of Navy service fully digitized. It is certain that no family member had requsted it. Not a common name either, and towards the end of the alphabet - then WHO ASKED? [I really want to know this!!]
Sue
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Hi Sue
My alphabet theory relates to examination NOT digitisation. It could be a distant family member who requested the Navy record - I have asked for a couple that could well confuse close family. Naval records are very small, you could order paper copies at no charge (not sure if this is still the case) so perhaps they are treated differently. If you really need to know if there is a process - a phone call would probably resolve it. I simply order those I want (it takes forever if they have not been examined as is the case with most of WWII) - but always love it when someone has asked before me ;D ;D
Trish
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Hi AC - back to the original request
John Henry Jnr listed his father as next of kin in the war records. After his death correspondence with his father was addressed to Warraderry St Grenfell, so the family was still in NSW at that stage.
There is a William Parker - parents John and Elizabeth - Birth registered at Adelong 1896 - could she have been visiting family?
Do you know the name of John Snr parents. There is a John died at Grenfell 1930, and a John Henry :) in 1940. Parents of John Henry Thomas and Mary Ann. A transcript of a death certificate for John Henry Snr or Eliza should list all their children - would be very useful. I saw an Elizabeth, but not Eliza, with the parent names of Eliza in the NSW Deaths.
Trish
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Hi Allycat,
% JH PARKER Jnr enlisted at Dubbo. Have no other info...
~ I've been told he was a soldier in the Boer War (but he wouldn't have been born then!) so I suppose it was WWI, but that he was killed in action. Have no factual information on this though.
Title
PARKER John Henry :
Service Number - 1823 :
Place of Birth - Grenfell NSW :
Place of Enlistment - Dubbo NSW : [/b]
Next of Kin - (Father) PARKER John[/b]
Series number
B2455 Control symbol
PARKER JOHN HENRY
Contents date range
1914 - 1920
Access status
Open Location
Canberra Barcode
8007208 View digital copy [/b]
Now this is this site for the records Allycat.[/b]
http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.asp?B=8007208&I=1&SE=0
Could this be Eliza Dinner Death and is this her parants Allycat.
1845/1903 PARKER ELIZA - SAMUEL + CAROLINE = GRENFELL [/b]
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Dear Trish {and hello there Sue}, Duly noted JH Parker snr as NOK in war records. And thanks for their address in NSW.
My William PARKER's parents actually were John Henry PARKER (Snr.) and Eliza B. nee DENNER, so you've found their 8th known child. Wow. And in those days, family helped deliver the babes so she could most likely have been visiting.
I don't know who John Henry PARKER (Senior)'s parents were. But I did see a death in 1940 on the NSW bdm site, with parents Thomas and Mary Ann so I had already stored that in my PAF (Personal Ancestral File) as possible parents. I shall most likely order transcript.
Eliza B PARKER nee DENNER ... her parents' names were: James DENNER born 1818 Newton Abbot, Devon and Mary Ann PINE born 1820 South Hill, Cornwall. They emigrated to Australia 1846 aboard ship "Canton". I found this couple on the First Families 2001 Centenary of Federation Project thingy that is now defunct. Lots of good information, but all the email addresses for the contacts are invalid. Aaargh. Maybe we should resurrect the programme? Or start our own board on rootschat! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Q.Can you find where Eliza (or Elizabeth) died? Please note that I've found that my Eliza had an older sister also called Elizabeth. Elizabeth was born 9/12/1850 Adelaide South Australia died 1940 Dubbo, married William MCCARRON. And my Eliza was born 1856 on the back creek of Bourke VIC. I have her birth certificate. She was my great great grandmother.
Thank you very much for all your help so far, Ally.
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Are you sure the William is yours? If so - very pleased to find it. :)
If you look on the NSW site for deaths Elizabeth Parker parents James and mary, there is a death about 1950 (would make her a goodly age!) It was the only possible I saw. Did you know that for a lesser fee ($10 I think) the transcript agents will check if the record is yours - do the full transcript if correct - otherwise just charge the lesser fee. It would probably be worth the $10 to check the 1940 death. If correct, you should get lots of good information. If it is not yours - you can ignore my suggestion in future :-X :-X
Hi OzBob
Unfortunately those parents aren't correct for Eliza, but the WWI record is correct. He is also on the CWGC site as well.
Look him up here if you don't know the site AC
http://www.cwgc.org/debt_of_honour.asp?menuid=14
PARKER, JOHN HENRY
Nationality: Australian
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Australian Infantry, A.I.F.
Unit Text: 45th Bn.
Age: 25
Date of Death: 07/08/1916
Service No: 1823
Additional information: Son of John and Eliza Parker, of Warraderry St., Grenfell, New South Wales.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Memorial: VILLERS-BRETONNEUX MEMORIAL
Trish
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Ally
??? Possables Death for Eliza or Elizabeth Parker (nee Dinner)
30639/1950 PARKER ELIZABETH CATHERINE JAMES WILLIAM MARY GOSFORD
1527/1929 PARKER ELIZA JOHN JANE PORT MACQUARIE. (Could this be her son & Wife )
19833/1927 PARKER ELIZA JOHN KATHLEEN MARRICKVILLE ( the same here her Son & Wife)
Death:
9060/1943 MCCARRON ELIZA - JAMES + MARY ANN = DUBBO
[/b]
Hi Trish,
:D
OzyBob
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Dear Trish, Thank you for the Cmwlth War Dead info. I hadn't seen that before. And I don't think the William PARKER you found was part of the same particular family after all. But perhaps they were cousins? Shall leave that to another time, it's all to easy to go on wild goose chases I've discovered, and it is better to keep things simple and research one family thoroughly at one time.
Dear Bob, The first Eliza you found looks like is my ancestor. Shall probably purchase transcript to see. The 1943 death of Eliza McCarron, that is my ancestor's sister.
Just to enlighten you, it looks like my ggg grandparents James DENNER and Mary Ann PINE called one daughters Elizabeth and the next one Eliza born 6 years later. Why oh why did they do that? It's made it very hard for me over the years genie-wise, until you guys have helped me to sort things out.
Thank you both. Ally.
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And off the subject again!
I agree that it is a sad thing about First Families.
It holds an enormous amount of really valuable [not just useful and interesting ] information - That is once you find your way into it which is not straight forward.
I am afraid that one day, as it just sits as a site no longer growing, that it will simply disappear and all that great stuff with it.
Even though you can' reach the email listers, it can fill in bits for you.
Sue
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Dear Sue, I agree wholeheartedly. I suggested elsewhere that maybe we should start out own First Families in Australia site on Rootschat (not trying to offend the original inhabitants of our blessed Country). With everyone having their own surname interest page from their emigree first family.
Al.
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Hello there Ally
in 1930 ther is a death at grenfell for JOHN PARKER
no henry as a midle name but that doesnt appear on the marriage details either
his parent JAMES and ELLEN
NOW INTERESTINLY THEY HAD A DAUGHTER esther born IN 1860 AND THAT IS THE NAME OF ONE OF HIS DAUGHTERS ISNT IT
NOW james died 1881 IN GRENFELL PARENTS CLEMENTS AND MARY
ELLEN DIED in 1906 parents james and elizabeth in Grenfell
now i know it does get expensive but to get any further you just may have to buy the record and see what happens
i know we have all done this and come up empty but boy when it is right dont we go forward then
as they say the truth is out there
regards jenn
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parker Dinner family...the family in Victoria have nothing to do with Eliza Dinner who married john Henry parker in Grenfell NSW and lived there until she died in 1903. The Eliza Dinner in Victoria Married a McCarron. Eliza's death certificate clearly states she was the daughter of Samuel and Caroline James, she was born in Sofala, NSW. Samuel and Caroline married when he and she had served part of their sentence. Samuel came from Bristol or near there. and Caroline came from Somerset. samuel sentenced to 10 years for picking pockets. Caroline for theft. All this is fairly easy to find in TROVE Ancestry NSW BDM, so why have Eliza die in 1897 instead of in Grenfell in 1903? Is it because no one wants to own to Samuel Dinner who ended his days in 1878 in ryde lunatic asylum? all the trees tha thave her born to parents in Victoria are all incorrect.
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Thanks Sharon. I'm a descendant that is quite happy to uncover the truth. I certainly don't mind if I find even more Convicts in the family tree than I already knew about. I still have a feeling that there were two separate families - Dinners and Denners. And my ancestors were the Dinners from Bristol. Thanks for your contribution.
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Ally
Have you considered contacting the Grenfell Historical Society?
They've been going for 50 years so must have a fair collection of information.
some years ago, I contacted them at the suggestion of someone else, to see if the DC I had for one Patrick FINN who we thought was my mum's grandfather, was correct. (It showed that he was born in Grenfell c1818) Their secretary very kindly perused the local Court records and told me that Grenfell didn't exist in 1818 and their record says he was born in Ireland! So you may be lucky, too (the answer was what we wanted, incidentally :) :) :) )
You might have to resort to snailmail - I can't find a web address though they do have a phone number listed.
Dawn M
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Thanks so much Dawn. Now it's school holidays I just might have more time for genealogy. :)
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Eliza dinner died in 1903 in Grenfell her parents are listed as Samuel (dinner) and Caroline james. Caroline got her ticket of leave in 1841, in Gouburn and they were given permission to marry. The sam dinner who died in Grenfell in 1872 is their son. William Dinner also lived there in Grenfell. As did John although he moved to another town...I think he also got arrested but after that he seems to have behaved. I think there is a Gazette mention of caroline trying to claim c hild support for a illegitimate child but she married and lost interest in trying to get it.Samuel committed bigamy in Bathurst and was charged. He then married sarah Prior in 1873 where their son samuel died, Sarah Died in Young in 1874. Samuel Dinner died in Ryde In 1878. As for the Parkers, John Parker who married Eliza Dinner the child of caroline and James, his father james arrived on the Aurora in 1833 with his brother william he stole a pig in Gressenhall with his brother, he had married in 1833 just before he was transported I cannot find him for sure but I think he is the one who was in NSW bdm listed as dying in Carcoar in 1868 aged 56 years. .
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Correction the child of James parker convict and his wife.
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Thank you Sharon. Do you have any interest in the Dinner's/Parker's yourself?
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Only in so far as the dinners....samuel married my great Great Grandmother Sarah Prior and then according to the coroner starved her to death pretty much. I was looking up what happened to caroline James and could not find her death....still working on that....I just got interested in the research as I tend to do. Of course when I came across that McCarron/ Dinner girl in Victoria I was a bit gobsmacked because Eliza's death is on the NSW BDM quite accessable.
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Also no one I can find has put William in the tree's at all or anything about him. it quite plainly says on the convict indent james was brother to william on the same ship.