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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Jannabow on Thursday 08 June 06 09:56 BST (UK)
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Can anyone out there help??????
I have been looking for my greatgrand mother for years and draw a blank when searching for
German immigrants to England. There are MANY lists of Germans to America but have'nt found one for Germans to England. The information I have for place of birth is none existant which
does'nt help. I have her and her three sons all said to have been born in Germany on the 1891 English Census. By the time of the 1901 Census she has become a British subject and her three sons birth places have altered. I can only list their names and dates of birth and hope someone can point me in the right direction
Florence Fortescue b. 1850 DEU
Ernest Fortescue b. 1878 DEU
Charles Fortescue b. 1881
Thomas Fortescue b. 1885
I know where they all lived and died but have nothing on this family before 1891
Any help or advice would be appreciated
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Hi Jannabow,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Unfortunately, FORTESCUE isn't a german name, and I can't think of anything immediately, from which she might have anglicised it.
If so, my usual tip won't help (look and see if she was naturalised) as she wouldn't have needed to. But it might be useful to have a look anyway:
Topic: RootsChat Topics - Naturalisation and Internment
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,157691.0.html
Another possibilty:
Did she marry in Britain, is her husband english ?? If so, maybe you can find the marriage certificate, which would give her maiden name
good luck,
Bob
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Just for the record, the 1891 census
8 Union St, Oldbury, Worcs
Charles F? Fortescue 38 Music Artiste, b. Edinburgh?
Florence wife 36 Actress
Ernest 13
Charles 10
Thomas 5
RG12/2264
Folio: 128
Page: 24
Florence and children b. Germany
The family are noted as visitors with a family who appear unconnected.
The music/actress connection may provide some clues ...
Biker
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Hi Jannabow !
This site may give you some ideas of where to look ! but I'll still keep on looking !!
http://www.roguesandvagabonds.co.uk/Links/hist_links.html
Annie :) :)
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Have you tried joining the Anglo-German Family HIstory Society? Perhaps they can help you eventually. I suspect they made up this name because it "sounded good", in Victorian terms. Perhaps the name was Feuerbach!
Have you checked the London Gazette online (indexed)? Also The Times online (available at the British Library if you can't get it anywhere else - indexed back to 1785)? You may find a reference to her somewhere in these resources.
While it's true there is a shortage of info on this immigration route, it's possible to search the Hamburg ships' passenger lists, which the Mormons have. I have never done it, but I am under the impression (someone correct me please if I'm wrong) that some of these ships stopped in Gravesend, and people innocently got off, having been told they were now in America; that was the end of their journey because they'd spent all their money.
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Hello Jannabow,
I don't know if this information will assist you or not. It may be a coincidence. I received a small packet from my sister this morning. Most of the items were old family photographs but there were three items that puzzle me and maybe RootsChatters will be able to help. A letter dated 27th July, 1945 from an actor called Anton O'Hara (Leads ... not a typo) c/o F. H. Fortescue Co., Hippodrome, Stockport to my grandmother and aunt was included in the packet with a picture of Anton and one of Sylvia Haydn. The letter was signed by Sylvia and Tony. I've made a bit of progress. I've found a reference to the Frank H. Fortescue Players (http://www.wlct.org/Culture/Heritage/pf29.pdf#search=%22Fortescue%20Stockport%20Hippodrome%22)
Chris
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You do know, I presume, that "DEU" = Deutschland = Germany. I just thought I'd mention it in case you didn't.
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Can anyone out there help??????
I have been looking for my greatgrand mother for years and draw a blank when searching for
German immigrants to England. There are MANY lists of Germans to America but have'nt found one for Germans to England. The information I have for place of birth is none existant which
does'nt help. I have her and her three sons all said to have been born in Germany on the 1891 English Census. By the time of the 1901 Census she has become a British subject and her three sons birth places have altered. I can only list their names and dates of birth and hope someone can point me in the right direction
Florence Fortescue b. 1850 DEU
Ernest Fortescue b. 1878 DEU
Charles Fortescue b. 1881
Thomas Fortescue b. 1885
I know where they all lived and died but have nothing on this family before 1891
Any help or advice would be appreciated
Hi,
I've no information, altho' not for want of trying! Wish Florence & hubby Fortescue had both picked other names!
I had a similar quandry when looking for wandering musicians. (auswanderer musikant(s) All German musicians had to be registered - maybe Florence had to be registered as an actress and I've tried to find a databank archiv(e) in the old Kingdom of Hannover but couldn't - there is no online information or catalogue as in the UK. Florence sounds like an English name. Could the Fortescue family have been touring and met up with Florence's English touring family in Germany?
My suggestions are:
* You need to contact as many Fortescue's as possible to find which one(s) has/have the old photos which will probably have a few names and dates on the back. It took me a couple of years to find my mother's cousins who had lots of info. on their grandfather b1854. I made contact a couple of ways, their descendants were on GenesReunited and also I went through the telephone book and made quite a few strangers day very different before I found my kin :-)
* You know 2 towns in the UK where your family lodged so I suggest you look at the local newspaper theatre adverts. You may be lucky enough to find Florence under her maiden name or even more lucky if there's a write up to say they've had a successful run in a German town. You never know she may have been from a famous thesbian family. I emailed one English local history library to explain and query what they had in their archives and a wonderful woman looked thro loads of ads for my gt.grandfather for me - she found nothing.
* I have a German book about the wandering Salzgitter musicians and have looked to see if Fortescue was mentioned - No! Salzgitter was/is famous for its musical festivals. I was lucky enough to find a whole street of names I was interested in on the December 1852 court addresses - this is like the 10 year UK census but they have a 'people count' every year.
* Have you joined a (any) German genealogy list(s) such as rootsweb's 'hannover-l' ? These lists are for separate German states and maybe you should think of joining all of them listing the family names/dates and enquiring which civil archive could give info of theatrical people. You never know what strange coincidence turns up - somebody may have a book which records your family or an image of a church record page which also has your name on it. I've been able to help people in that way.
* Each German old dukedom / principality/ state has its own main diocese church archive but as Hamburg was a bustling city possibly Ernest was baptised there. It costs about £2.75 to hire a film to view at your local Morman church - as a last resort why not look in familysearch library to see if there's an Ev. Lutheran film for 1878-ish you could order.
Best wishes,
Rena in England
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The Earl Fortesques of Devon were a prominent aristocratic family with a family home ( Castle Hill ) at Filleigh, just outside South Molton. You should be able to find them in any of the standard reference books on the aristocracy. The house eventually burned down, but I'm not sure when.
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Hiya Jannabow,
The Stockport Library catalogue (http://193.112.136.180/TalisPrism) contains books by Lady Winifred Fortescue and Adrian Fortescue.
I am wondering why does Fortescue have to be a German name? An English family living there for some time whose child was born in the country would be a German person.
The Library catalogue also has Stockport Hippodrome programmes for 1944 to 45. That covers the period when the two actors in whom I'm interested were playing at the theatre.
Chris
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Thanks Chris
The Fortescue's I'm looking for were active in the theatre between 1881 and 1901 brfore yours I think.
Have you tried the Templeman Library they have one or two 'acting Fortescues' in the early 1900s
I'm wondering if there has been a name change in my line, as all the other Fortescue lines do not connect with mine.
Mother and three sons (the eldest was my Grandfather) were all born in Germany so it says on the 1891 Census while the father was said to be born in Scotland, but again Fortescue is not a scottish name. Have tried most of the scottish websites but no luck.
All of this family with the exception of my grandfather are buried in Pyle cemetry, Bridgend, South Wales. I have put loads of 'feelers' out in this area and can only hope that I get a reply
Thanks again Janet
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Hiya Janet,
Unfortunately as far as I know I have no Fortescues in my tree. I was looking as a matter of interest. You may be right about a name change. I believe it is a common practice for theatrical people to adopt a different surname .. sometimes a family surname and sometimes possibly picked out of a hat as it looks like a name that would catch the eye. There are a few Fortescues on the Biographical Index of English Drama Before 1660 (http://shakespeareauthorship.com/bd/bio-f.htm)
I don't know a lot about changing names. Would there be any records of name changes? I've looked at a Rootschat thread Changing names officially. (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,134519.msg603179.html#msg603179) There may be some problems if there was a name change.
Chris.
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The Hamburg Passenger Lists (to anywhere) are now online at ancestry.com 1850-1934
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The Hamburg Passenger Lists (to anywhere) are now online at ancestry.com 1850-1934
I have never been able to Find My Prussean Ancestors listed in the Hamburger Lists?
Knowing My Luck they probably came over 1848-49? :-\ ::)
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The London Gazette carries official name changes, but it was not necessary to change your name officially until approx WW1, as I recall; it was costly, I believe. I can check for the date when it was required, as I think I have it somewhere, if it matters. The Gazette is available online - go to "Archives", and search there.
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I believe I may be able to help you with this family but I see these replies go back to 2006/7. I may have been able to contact you via Ancestry.
I think you are probably aware by now that this family changed their name... several times. I came to Florence (Fortesque/Verner/Seaman) linking to my family in the 1870's and have been researching her from this date to the Verner/Fortesque years and am more than happy to fill you in, if you are still linked to this search and site.