RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: mallow on Thursday 01 June 06 23:12 BST (UK)
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Hi is anybody researching the Allsopp Family name, Iam researching Thomas Allsopp born abt 1791 Thomas was a Schoomaster have lots of information from 1841 onwards. :)
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This is probably of no help as I think allsop(p) was quite a common name in Derbyshire.
I know my 6th Great Grand Father John Sherwin was married to an Anne - the only possiable marriage I have for them is this one below which matches up perfectly as far as the birth of their first child goes.
John Sherwin + Anne Allsop 29 JAN 1740 St Alkmund, Derby, Derby, England
ps she seems to have come from Quarndon - which makes it likely that she is the Anne I am looking for as John Sherwin lived at Mackworth - the next villiage along
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Lots of Allsops round Duffield area
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This is for Francis
Thanks for that reply Francis, unfortunately I did not get back that far, I am stuck at 1791 as i cannot find a marriage for Thomas Allsopp who married Sarah? she was from Kings Bromley they married abt 1811 or 12 there were four sons that I know of from the 1841 Census one of which was my 3 Gt Grandfather Alfred Allsopp have you got any information from 1841 :)
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This is for Omskirk, yes I am looking at Duffield as a birthplace for Thomas Allsopp abt 1791, have you any more information, it would be much appreciated as I am stuck on Thomas. :)
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I have no other info on the Allsopps apart from the possibility of them marrying into the Sherwins.. sorry about that.
Frances
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I don't have much about Allsops but when i was looking at Bowlers in duffield I noticed plenty of Allsops, I do have one in my tree who I believe came from Duffield but have not followed up on this as yet, www.bowlerinfo.co.uk
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Hi Mallow
Not sure I can be of much help to you but my maiden-name is Allsopp. My lot came from Wirksworth, so thanks to John Palmer's fantastic site
http://www.wirksworth.org.uk/
I have them back to early 1625. It would be worth having a look on there as there is a lot of info aside from Parish records.
Also try
http://belper-research.com/
as there are some Duffield Parish records on there
Allsop(p) is very common in Derbyshire as they originated in Alsop en le Dale not far from Wirksworth - so can be tricky tracking them especially if they insist on calling children by same names as my lot do ::)
Regards Jan ;)
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Thanks jan, I know what you mean by family names my lot used the same names for generations, the only thing is mine used two p in the Allsopp surname maybe that would narrow it down, I will keep on looking for a miracle :)
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I wouldn't rely on the 2 pp's - in theory that is how my lot spell it but in practice, all variations occur ::) Where are the family in 1841? And what places of birth do the children give on later censuses? As Thomas is a schoolmaster he might appear in a directory before 1841. Also consider Sarah might be a second marriage thus later than you are expecting.
Jan ;)
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Agreed as on the Mackworth parish records my sherwin family are down as Sherwin, Sharwin and Sherrin . There was no fixed spelling at that time so it was often how the clark on the day spelt it.
Interesting that your Alsop(p) relative was a school master, I have a similar ancester John Sherwin who was born in 1773 and is a school master on the 1841 census in Litchurch Street in Derby.
I just wondered how schools worked , I know that there weren't any state schools at this time, would there have been one master that took in pupils? does anyone know if there are any info or registers of schools. (I have the Derby School register but he is not on there)
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Thanks for that Jan, yes you are right about spelling although my Grandfather insisted we spell it with two ps in 1841 the family are at Rotten Row in Lichfield "Sarah is a widow" that is how I am stuck on Thomas there were five sons Charles, Frederick, Alfred, Arthur, and Horace, two born Kings Bromley where Sarah was from ,two born Lichfield last child born "1827" so I am looking at a "14 year" search for death of Thomas not easy when you dont live near record office :)
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Hi Frances I put a post on the occupation section about Schoolmasters that far back and I got a nice reply with information, have a look :)
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Thanks Mallow, I found the post very interesting. I have the school register for derby free shcool if anyone needs a look up. Derby Free School was a very old school in Derby later a Grammer School and then a comprehensive. However my relative is not listed as a Master there.
I'm pretty sure there were also smaller schools run by one or two people (man and wife) this was before the education act so you would have had to pay.
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Glad to be of some help Frances, I am wondering if Schoolmasters moved around, mine seems to have done so, perhaps on four year contracts, reason for this speculation is, two of my Schoolmasters children were born in Kings Bromley one in Oldbury and two in Lichfield with abt four year gaps between places. Maybe he is on your register, as I have not found a school for him yet
"worth a look "
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Hi Mallow let me know his name and roughly what dates, and I'll have a look.
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Thank you very much for that offer Frances his name was Thomas Allsopp dates would be from around "1818 to 1840" I have no death year for him his last child was born in 1827 and he was dead by Census of 1841, I hope this makes sense.
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Hi mallow
No luck I'm affraid I did a search with single and double p's (its a searchable pfd) there seem to have been no allsopps involved with the school
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Thanks for trying Frances it was a long shot anyway.
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As another with Alsop ancestry on both maternal and paternal lines, I've seen almost all variations of spelling (including Awsup on one PR) even within the same family group.
Got me thinking. Do you 'autocorrect' the spelling as you transcribe it to your preference, or do you take the Curate's word and record it as written?
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I tend to leave it as written. It amuses me how a great thing was always made about spelling our name 2l's 2p's but my grandfather is Allsop on his birth certificate.
Jan ;)
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Hi jan
I have not found any yet without the two Ls and two Ps so I will have to stick to that spelling. I also think mine were presbyterian as one Marriage cert I got was in Presbyterian church but it could have been the bridewho was of that persuarsion. :)
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Hi,
I am looking for a Jane ALLSOP b.1833c (place?). Jane married a Thomas SHARP and moved to Australia in 1853.
Is there an area of the UK where ALLSOP's are most, please?
Any assistance greatly appreciated!
Cheers,
Christine
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Try this http://www.nationaltrustnames.org.uk/Surnames.aspx
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Hi Christine
Welcome to Rootschat :D
Allsop is a Derbyshire name but of course that doesn't mean your Jane was born there. Do you know any more about her marriage? When? Where? If you haven't already got it her marriage certificate it would hopefully give you her father's name and occupation and the witnesses which would make it easier to pin her down in 1841/51 census.
Jan ;)
I've had a quick look but can't see a suitable marriage on the IGI or FreeBMD :(
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Hi Jan,
Many thanks for your reply.
Unfortunately, I don't know when/where she was married or where she was born.
The ships passenger list just states who they are and that Thomas was English and Jane was Irish.
They did have a daughter born about 1851c. Her names was Esther. She would have been abt 2 when they arrived in South Australia in 1853.
Thomas and Jane more children in South Australia. Their names are: William, John, Thomas Edward, Sarah Ann, Elizabeth and Alfred Henry.
Cheers,
Christine
Australia
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There are a handful of births in the UK for Esther Sharp.
1850
June 1/4, Wortley, vol 22 pg 814
Sept 1/4, Spalding, vol 14 pg 593
Dec 1/4, Northampton, vol 15 pg 279 (Esther Jane)
1851
Sept 1/4, Holborn, vol 2 pg 149
Dec 1/4, Shoreditch, vol 2 pg 479 (Esther Caroline)
None in 1852
Might be worth emailing the relevant record offices to enquire - ask if Jane Allsopp and Thomas Sharp were the parents.
Legs
xxxx
Update- - Try this website for info on the Wortley birth http://applications.barnsley.gov.uk/service/registrars/select_births.asp
For the Spalding birth email regist@lincolnshire.gov.uk
For Northampton email northamptonro@northamptonshire.gov.uk
For Holborn email contact@islington.gov.uk
For Shoreditch email archives@hackney.gov.uk
Good Luck!
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Many thanks Legs - I shall check them all out.
Cheers,
Christine
Australia
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Have edited the post above with the relevant email addresses for you.
Best Wishes
xxxxx
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Thanks again, legs... :)
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No problems,
Let us know if you have any success, or not. If not we'll try something else!
Legs
xxxx
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Hi Christine
I've tried to find the family in 1851 - actually thought I had when I turned up a Thomas and Jane Sharp in Dorking with a 1 year old daughter Esther but then sadly found them in 1861 as well :'(
If Jane was Irish I suppose it is possible she and Thomas married there and were also there in 51. Do you know where they sailed from in 53?
Jan ;)
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Hi
I did exactly the same Jan!
I'm guessing they must have married in Ireland and perhaps Esther was born there too as they don't seem to be on the 1851 and I can see no obvious marriage in England for Jane and Thomas.
Legs
xxxx
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Thank you Legs - that is very kind of you. I will let you know.
Cheers,
Christine
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Hi Jan,
Many thanks for looking. Pain - I had hoped that the Dorking Esther was ours! :(
The ship, "Ramillies" sailed from Southampton in 1853. I don't know if it came via Ireland.
Thank you,
Christine
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Hi again,
On the LDS site I have found:
Jane ALSOP Christening: 17 FEB 1833 Sunbury On Thames, London, England
Parents John and Sarah ALSOP.
Would it be possible for you to check the Census' for this family, please?
Cheers,
Christine
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Hi Christine,
I can't see an obvious entry for these Alsop's on the 1851 census, however Jane could have married/emigrated by then and the parents could have died.
I can't find them on the 1841 either, sorry!
Legs
xxxx
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Not just me then Legs ??? :D
Sorry Christine.
Jan ;)
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Thank you again, Legs & Jan.
What a pain, eh? :( Not being able to find them. Thomas and Jane with baby Esther migrated to Australia in May 1853.
Thank you both for all your help - it's has been great!
All the best,
Christine
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If I were you Christine I'd post a thread on the Ireland boards with a link to this thread so people don't duplicate info.
If Jane was born in Ireland they might be able to locate a birth and/or marriage for her over there.
Do you have any info saying where Esther was born? Might help narrow down the country at least...? I think you said the ship documents had Thomas and Jane's birth countries written on them, what did it say about Esther?
Legs
xxxx
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Hi Mallow, Have you looked for a will? I notice there is a will at Lichfield for Thomas Alsop of Uttoxeter proved 27 Oct 1830. Thomas Allsop of Bramshall May 2 1838 & Thomas Alsop of Walsall Dec 16 1839. Copies can be ordered from Lichfield Record Office & as you say he moved around so anything is possible.
You certainly should avoid the trap of spellings as I have found Allsop spelled in 3 different ways in one will -twice when the clerk spelled the testator's name differently & then the testator himself spelled his own name differently again when he signed! You need to look at any Thomas including Orsoppe! Remember if he was moving around his accent (or maybe his wife's was not as clearly understood or perhaps the clerk was hard of hearing!
Do you have a date of death for Sarah? Or her maiden name? Where was she born? Where did they all live after 1841? All these things could provide a clue.
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Thank you very much Kayzee, I always thought that Thomas being a Schoolmaster might have left a will he died in 1840 in Lichfield, Sarah died in 1857 her maiden name was Dilks and they all lived in Lichfield after 1841 until they died so any Allsopp wills in Lichfield would interest me, I will keep all that information you sent me in mind in future.
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Hi Mallow,
Sadly my Thomas wills were a little early for your Thomas. But what about the Dilks family? I have had great success with early Allsop generations using wills from other surnames which are related, surely with a name like Dilks there would not be too many wills to look through? I assume you know of the Allsop Family Group run by Winifred?
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Thank you Kayzee :) I never thought of Winifred even though I am a member of the Allsopp group, I will also have a look at Dilks. I dont suppose you came accross any Allsopp wills for 1867 in Lichfield, it seems to be easier to get them further back.
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Hi Mallow
What is the Allsopp Family Group? How do you join?
Jan ;)
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Hi Jan just Google, Eaton and Allsopp Derbyshire and the address will come up at the end of the page
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Thanks Mallow :D
Jan ;)
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Mallow
I think Lichfield have pre 1858 wills. Post 1858 Derbyshire ones are in Matlock. I don't know about post 1858 Staffordshire wills.
If you are a member of the Allsop Group Mallow I take it you have the January 2008 journal listing all the Thomas Allsops from the Derbyshire & Staffordshire index. He doesn't appear to have married Sarah Dilks in Derbyshire or Staffordshire pre 1812, so did they marry elsewhere or did they never marry?
There seems to be only one Thomas bapt 1791 son of John & Sarah of Hognaston. Have you tried to follow that up? Do any of the sons of your Thomas have any visitors or family members of other surnames staying with them on any of the census nights? Do the children have any middle names in later generations? I have the Milward surname being used as a middle name in 1880 which comes all the way down from a marriage in 1725!! My husband has a middle name which has come down from the early 1800s! His parents didn't even know where it came from just that it was a family name!!!
I can highly recommend the use of early wills, I've recently discovered an extra generation after 5 years of hitting a brick wall - so never give up!
Janan
Have you got the address for the Allsop Group now? It's well worth joining for £3. Unfortunately everything is done by snail mail but Winifred Waterall who runs it is a mine of information & so helpful. She publishes lots of interesting snippets in the Journal.
I notice you say your Allsops are from Wirksworth. I have a few who have connections with Wirksworth although I assume if we were barking up the same tree we would have met on here before, but just incase I shall mention my Wirksworth ones.
Isaac Allsop & Elizabeth Debanks md 1683
Grace Allsop md Benjamin Gregory of Wirksworth in 1717
Millicent Allsop md Charles Spencer of Wirksworth in 1717.
There is a will at Lichfield for Thomas Allsop of Wirksworth proved 2 Jun 1635 that might be of interest to you. There are some earlier ones too. If you go there you get to read the originals! They are very delicate but it's just wonderful seeing the actual wills. When I retire I'm going to spend a month there -sadly I'm 47!
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Hi
I have Winifred's address so must join - sounds worth the £3.
Kayzee
I see your Isaac appears from no-where to marry in 1683 but the clutch of Isaac's following him are all mine (at least upto and including the 1813 marriage to Mary Otto) although none direct line. I would say there is a strong possibility that your Isaac is somehow connected to my lot. Mine are in Wirksworth from at least 1627, when James Allsop married Ellen Wall, until my great grandfather left for London in the mid 1880's.
Jan ;)
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Thank you Kayzee,my Thomas was born 1782 Barton under needwood the Son of Thomas Allsopp and Rachel Wood, whose marriage was in Hartshorne Derby in 1779 The marriage cert states they were both of the Parish. Rachel was born in Etwall Derby in 1755 Father Charles Wood.
My Thomas went on to Marry Sarah Dilks in Birmingham Warwick in 1814 and moved to Lichfield where they both died. so where would I start for wills? I have not gotten back any further than Thomas in Barton Under needwood.
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Hi Mallow,
It seems you are lucky in that post 1858 Staffordshire wills are held at Lichfield also. Why not book a day there & look for any Charles Wood 1754 -1800 & any Dilks for the relevant dates. If you don't find Charles look at any Wood of Etwall of the period & 20 years previous in the hope of finding Rachel's grandfather. The wills are indexed so it is quite easy & then you only need too buy relevant wills. I'm a little confused as to what you are hoping to find out about Thomas as you seem to know hi
s birth, death & marriage dates. Lichfield phone number is 01543 510720.
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Hi Janan,
My Isaac came from Matlock to marry In Wirksworth & although I have Isaac in 3 generations after him (again not in my direct line), I don't see a connection with yours. Mine were very good at using the same names from generation to generation apart from the name Dennis which only appears as the 1st Isaac's eldest son which makes me interested in Dennis of Bow Wood, Matlock who died 1690. I would be curious especially to know if you have Dennis in your tree at all.
My first Isaac had a brother Josiah who was a partner in groves in the hundred of Wirksworth.
Did you know that a James Allsop is mentioned at least from 1708 & possibly earlier in Heague Manor Court Rolls? I didn't note when he first appeared because I have no James' in my lot at all. I know it might seem a long way from Wirksworth but people of Bonsall & Ashover are listed there also, so distance doesn't seem to be important. There are also a couple of Isaac's mentioned but they are mine of Matlock & Ashover.
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Now that is interesting Kayzee because Dennis does appear - but like in your tree just the once whereas all other names are re-used over and over ( and cause much confusion ???). Dennis was first born of my gg grandparents William and Hannah - he was born and died in 1845. Apart from an 1840 marriage of a Dennis (as far as I can tell he is unrelated to my lot) to Matilda in 1840 and subsequent baptism of their child Dennis, the only other Dennis activity in Wirksworth is a 1642 baptism of a Dennis son of Dennis. Quite a puzzle.
Jan ;)
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Hi Jan,
It's difficult to know whether this means anything or is just a very unusual coincidence. My Dennis was bapt 1685 Matlock son of Isaac of High Leas, Matlock who married 1683. This Isaac had a brother Josiah who married 1699. Isaac died 1716, Josiah died 1722.
Sadly there is no will for Dennis of Bow Wood House Matlock who died 1690 just Administrations & when I looked at it a few years ago I found it difficult to read but thought his wife was Ann.It was basically an inventory with praisers Thomas Pole, Hitton Shaw, Marmaduke Abell. My ability to read this old writing has improved now so I will check it out if I get to Lichfield again. However he could be either a father or brother to the above Josiah & Isaac.
Another Dennis left a will in 1628. He was of Bow Wood but appears to have rented High Leas. You can see why I think these two men are ancestors of my Isaac! This Dennis mentions his wife Margaret & son Dennis who is under 21. Witnesses to this will are Robert Hibberson, John & William Allyn & Thomas Spencer.
This youngest Dennis who was under 21 in 1628 could be the one who wrote the will in 1690.
There is also a Dennis of Bow Wood who died 1721, I have a transcript of his will which mentions wife Lydia, children John & Ann, Ann being under 21. Brother William. Witnesses Job Allsop & Henry Flint.
I'm not sure if any of this is of use to you or even if you can follow my ramblings! I have found that witnesses are often related by marriage if not blood, so if any of these names mean anything to you - you know where I am! I have a few wills I transcribed in August that I have yet to try to tie in so I think I'll have a look at those now to see if I can manage to confuse myself just a little more!
By the way does your Wirksworth group have a pedigree on Ince? If it did I could perhaps check it out to see if I can find a connection as I have a lot of connecting lines.
Did you mention confusion & puzzle??? Sorry to cause more!
Kay
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Hi
My Wirksworth lot do have a pedigree on Inces under Alsop Pg 024b. Anything for your lot?
It does mention that one of them Thomas (born 1732), son of Richard and Sarah (my 5xg grandparents), went to Heage dying there without issue. So maybe there is some family connection with the 1708 James you mention from the Heage Manor Court Rolls.
Will get back to you if any connections occur to me
Jan ;)
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This may be of little consequence for the original enquirer as I have little clue as to where your ALLSOPP family is in relation to Gloucestershire. So here it is for what it is worth:
My 4 x g grandfather William SHEPHERD married one Mary ALSOP. Mary was born c1763.
William & Mary married in Iron Acton, Glouc.
I have Mary's parents if this is of any help.
Regards
Robert
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Hi Jan,
I have lots of references on Ince but the main one is on 16c Allsop of Darley .16d John Allsop of Darley, 15b entries from bible of John Marshall, 19b Wall of Darley & I think it's 22a Allsop of High Leas. You will see that they don't occupy the whole pages.
I have a will transcript for a James of Heague, tailor mentioning son James, dau Susanna, wife Sarah, Ann Wood, son Marmaduke proved 1719 & buried Duffield. Witnesses Richard Harvey, Jno Walker, Henry Swift, Appraisers John Halkins?? Joseph Gregory, Jos Willet.
Likewise will let you know if something occurs, it would seem if there is a connection it would be pre - Ince which of course we knew anyway.
Many thanks
Kay
Hi Robert & Karon,
I don't have an early connection with Glouc. as far as I know but I do have a Shepherd connection. I think I have seen your detail before at some stage. But it is always good to list the parentage if you know it as who knows where it leads. Jan & I are mostly talking about Derbyshire but I have to say mine branch off into a lot of counties.
Kay
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Kayzee,
I do agree and would have done so if I was at home with the detail. Will do so this evening when Im at the home computer rather than here at work.
Cheers
Robert
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Hi ,
I have been reading your posts and thought i would add this information. Maybe it will fit for someone or not.
Joseph Allsop b. Circa 1809 married Mary Anne Pipguard
In the 1841 Census , they are listed as having 4 children -
Joseph - age 6
William - age 4
Charles - age 3
Elizabeth Ann Allsop b. 11 Mar 1840 in Wirksworth , Derbyshire , England
The family immigrated to America and ended up in Wisconsin .
In the 1860 US Census they had - 6 more chidren -
Henry , Mary J. , Julia , John , Maria , Kavana
Elizabeth Ann Allsop married a Bernard Flanigan on 11 May 1857 in Little Chute , Brown Co. , Wisconsin.
They end up having 14 children in Wisconsin . Elizabeth Ann Allsop Flanigan died - 15 Nov 1904 in Racine , Wisconsin .
The Allsops and the Flanigans end up living on farms near each other in Caledonia , Racine , Wisconsin .
That is all I have on the Allsops , hope it helps someone .
Megan
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Hi Megan
Thanks for the info on your family.
Is this them in 1841?
Bolehill, Wirksworth
Joseph ALLSOP 27 Shoe m Y
Ann ALLSOP 26 Y
Joseph ALLSOP 6 Y
William ALLSOP 4 Y
Charles ALLSOP 3 Y
Elizabeth ALLSOP 15m Y
If so this would appear to be his baptism
C 1815sep13 ALLSOP Joseph=(son) Joseph/Elizabeth (Wirksworth) [Miner], dob 1813apr19
You can find further info to trace back at
http://www.wirksworth.org.uk/MENU.htm
Joseph's father Joseph is son of William and Hannah (nee Kirkland) and was born (according to my bible info) April 30th 1761 and was also known as Josh. If you would like a copy of this please pm me your email.
Regards
Jan ;)
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Hi Jan ,
Yes that is them in the Census . Are they part of your Allsop line ? If they are , I can give you all of the information on the children that Bernard Flanigan and Elizabeth Allsop had.
Also, I am in contact with Elizabeths ggranddaughter. I will read the link you gave and try to find out more on this family.
Thanks,
Megan
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Hi Megan
Your family are a sideways branch quite a way back - Joseph's father Joseph (or Josh) appears in some bible info my great grandad James Allsop copied down back in 1908. I am either descended from Joseph senior's brother Wandell or his uncle Wandell - yet to sort that one out to my satisfaction.
I would still be interested in Elizabeth's children - I find it fleshes families out to explore sidelines, especially when they have emigrated. Are you descended directly from Elizabeth and Bernard?
I will send you a pm with my email so we can share info.
Cheers
Jan ;)
The Wirksworth site is fantastic by the way :D
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Kayzee,
For my tardiness in adding further information promised way back on the 17 March, I do apologise.
Here is what I have to date on the Alsop line (very little) but it all adds hopefully. This information is the work of another descendant, RootsChat name of Kayec (my 7th cousin) in Melbourne Australia. I acknowledge her work in this part of my family, and I have her permission to use this material.
Sebrah THORNDELL, b. 1732 in Frampton Cotterl, Gloucestershire, christened 24 FEB 1732 in Frampton Cotterl, Gloucestershire. She married Andrew ALSOP, married 12 NOV 1761 in Frampton Cotterl, Gloucestershire.
Children:
i Mary ALSOP, b. 1762 in Frampton Cotterl, Gloucestershire, christened 22 AUG 1762 in Frampton Cotterl, Gloucestershire. She married William SHEPHERD, married 23 APR 1786 in Iron Acton, Gloucestershire.
William SHEPHERD is my 4 x great grandfather.
Regards
Robert aka Aussie Karrob in the Chat Room
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Well the coincidences in family history never cease to amaze me. I doubt that your family has any connection with mine but I too am researching the Allsops with a distant cousin who lives in Melbourne!
My Shepherd connection relates to Anthony Shepherd who probably married Elizabeth Allsop in 1772 at Westminster & they had sons Anthony & John. John bn 1773 was known variously as John Allsop Shepherd & John Shepherd alias Allsop. He died at 50, Marsham St., Westminster in 1841 leaving a detailed will but mentioned no brother's names. He did mention Frances Newman who was a neice. I'm being a little vague now as I can't find the will at the moment - bad filing system - but I think some of the detail is in a query I put on the Middlesex board some time ago. However, I have no reason to think that my Shepherd of Westminster had any relationship with yours of Gloucestershire & Andrew does not appear in my tree either.
I'm sorry that this does not help but I will of course keep you in mind should I discover more. Many thanks for your interest.
Kay
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I have over 200 Allsopp surnames in my family tree most of them from the Derbyshire area. Please view my tree at the link below :-\
www.elkes.tribalpages.com
Warren
;)
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Hi Warren
Welcome to Rootschat :D
Have been to the link but can't view your tree without a visitor's password. Your name seems familiar maybe we've been in contact through GenesReunited or elsewhere.
Jan ;)
Yes it was GenesReunited - I am also descended from Wandel born Wirksworth 1736 or possibly his brother William ( will sort that out one day I hope!) In any case we are definitely both decended from Richard baptised Wirksworth Jan 1706.
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Hello again...........you dont need the visitor password on my site as it only protects living relatives. Yes I remember being in contact with you on genes although there are so many ........
Warren :P
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Allsopp builders in Derby? I don't know where they come from yet, but I have a William H Allsopp who marries into our family in 1921 and is supposed to have run a building company. His sons later work for him - possibly in the area of Uttoxeter Old Road, Derby. There's a couple of William H Allsopps born in Derby abt 1890s that could be him - wondered if anyone could help identify/eliminate right branch?
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Hi ercall
Welcome to Rootschat :)
The marriage certificate would hopefully give his father's name but if this is just an off-shoot to your family I assume you are hoping to identify him without this?
Presumably none of the William H's you have found don't helpfully come from a family of builders, so have you tried trade directories? This site may help
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/
Jan ;)
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Robert & Karon,
I have just come across the following which looks nteresting.
"This may be of little consequence for the original enquirer as I have little clue as to where your ALLSOPP family is in relation to Gloucestershire. So here it is for what it is worth: My 4 x g grandfather William SHEPHERD married one Mary ALSOP. Mary was born c1763. William & Mary married in Iron Acton, Glouc. I have Mary's parents if this is of any help.
Regards Robert "
I am interested in Alsops who were in Chipping Sodbury, Glos. and Charles Alsop b.c.1781 who married a Ruth b.c.1786. If you have Mary's parents do you have any of her siblings?
Thanks. Toby.
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G'day Toby,
Thank you for your question re siblings of one Mary ALSOP. I think my wife Karon may have that information in her Legacy Program. Later today, I will ask her to take a look and see what we have and I feel sure we may have those siblings.
If we do, and the sibling/s match, I have Mary's line back to about 1540. I would though direct you to my 7th cousin Kaye in Melbourne who has done that line of research. Kaye is connected to me from about 2 generations back from Mary ALSOP
If you think there is a connection, I will ask you for a contact email address so that Kaye can make contact with you.
Wishing you and yours a very happy and Holy Christmas Toby. May 2010 be a prosperous year for you in all your endeavors.
Regards
Bob & Karon
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Researching J. H. Allsop and family of Wirksworth Derbyshire
J.H. born 1861 m 20 Nov 1887 to Bertha Maskrey (my GGF sister) b 1866 Wirksworth d 1942 at Kirk Ireton
J. H Allsop parents were Henry Allsop and Lydia Brocklehurst of Britland
Children to John Henry Allsop and Bertha Maskrey
1. Harry Allsop b 1889 m Gertrude Lamb 1915 moved to Ashbourne
2. John Charles 1890 d 1904
3 Bertha b 1891 d young
4 Lydia b 1892 m Edwin C Coulson 1920 d 1948 bd Kirk Ireton
5 Edna Jacques 1895 m Lewis Wardman d 1941
6 Isaac b 1901 m Kate Keenan 1928 d 1940 in Derby
Bertha Maskrey daughter to Charles Maskrey and Ann Seeds of Wirksworth :o
If anybody is researching these Allsops would love to hear from you
Ber
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Hi everyone
This is my first post and I hope someone can help me. I am trying to find the Allsop connection to my g.g. grandfather William Allsop Massey born about 1808 at Hungry Bentley Derbyshire.Father John Massey.
So far as I can make out,going by the naming of his son John Godwin Massey ,the Christian name is from the Grandfather and the second name from the surname of the mother. Does this make sense?
Some of WAM's children and grandchildren had the second name of Oakden.
Yaya
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Hi Ber
Welcome to Rootschat :D
My Allsops come from Wirksworth but I can't tie your John Henry in to them :(
If you've not already found it this site is well worth a look
http://www.wirksworth.org.uk/
Regards
Jan ;)
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Hi yaya
Welcome to Rootschat :D
It makes perfect sense what you say about the Allsop being from the mother's side. I can see why you are stuck as it is difficult to track back if you don't know who the mother is! I take it you know his father from his marriage cert but haven't as yet found a baptism for him?
I will have a think
Jan ;)
Ahh I see there is a baptism 22 Aug 1808 in Longford but only father's name given >:(
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Hi Jan
Thank you.I had the baptism but of course there isn't a mention of the mother.
I found a marriage for John Massey to Mary Oakden at Etwall in 1807 and I thought for ages that they were the parents, especially as there are children and grandchildren with the second name Oakden but then I found another family,father John Massey and mother Mary Oakden , all baptised in Edlaston with a William baptised in December 1809.
Unless Wliiam Allsopp died and the next son was named William without the Allsopp in the baptism.However I also think that the mother was Allsopp with an Oakden connection somewhere along the way.This is driving me nuts!!
Yaya ::)
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Hi Yaya,
Let's not be driven nuts, so can we start at the beginning. Have you looked for & traced John Godwin Massey with his parents in the earliest census. Is his mother there? What age & where was she born?
This is not a brick wall, just a hurdle!
Kay
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Hi Kay
I have all the censuses from 1841 for W.A.Mwhen he lived in Chorlton Lancs. to 1881. He died in 1883 in Saughall Massie Cheshire.In all of them he gives his birthdate as 1809 which makes me think that the William Massey born to John and Mary in 1809 and he are one and the same.
He was well educated being employed as a writing clerk in Uttoxeter in 1830 apearing in a Testamentory citation with jeremiiah Hurd, Hannah Hurd and Sarah Oakden (that name again)He then went on to become a book keeper (1843)and merchant (1846-1853) in Liverpool.In 1846 he was named in parliament as having contributed 2250 poundst for a railway subscription. In 1848 and again in 1853 he was before the bankruptcy court in Liverpool.thne in 1857 he married Ann Godwin in Bidston Cheshire and became my g.g. grandfather.
His first wife was Ann Wescoe born Chorlton Lancs.I dont't have a date but i believe it must have been 1841 or prior as she was listed as Ann massey in the 1841 census. she died c.1849
They had at least 2 children .Ann Mary baptised 24 November 1843 at Liverpool and Harriet OAKDEN born 27th july 1846
I just found a marriage for John Allsop and Mary Oakden 28th August 1798 in Thorpe by Ashbourne .IGI batch number M058992.If John Allsop died and she then married John Massey this could be the connection!!
Here's hoping ::)
Yaya :)
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Sounds like you are on a roll now -good luck!
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Thanks Kay ;)
I'll let you know how I go
Yaya :)
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I have Millwards from Grindon, Staffordshire in my family tree. The earliest eithteenth century Millward I have traced married a Cattel who was descended from Harriet Allsop b1797 in Lambeth. Have you any Cattels? My lot are grocers, tailors and bootmakers. By c19th living in London.
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Hi Grace
I don't know whether my Allsopps are from Wirksworth or not.The only Allsopp I have is in the second name of my g.g. grandfather William ALLSOPP Massey born Hungry Bentley in 1809. I think ( but can't prove as yet) that the name is part of a naming pattern where a second name it taken from the surname of a relative.Several of William's children and granchildren have the second name 'OAKDEN"
Cheers
Yaya
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Hi Grace
My Allsopps are from Wirksworth. I don't have an Isaac in direct line but it is a name that occurs in the family. I see there is no baptism for your Isaac but guess he would have been born c1660 - my umpteenth great grandfather James married Susanna Wandell in 1648. I have found some children for them including a Grace born and buried 1662. Who knows your Isaac may be one of theirs? There is a 'blank' son of James Jul 2 1656 who could fit the bill.
I haven't looked at any Derbyshire wills but have handled some Bedfordshire ones form the 16 and 1700s - I agree it is an amazing experience!
Jan ;)
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Hi
I have Winifred's address so must join - sounds worth the £3.
Kayzee
I see your Isaac appears from no-where to marry in 1683 but the clutch of Isaac's following him are all mine (at least upto and including the 1813 marriage to Mary Otto) although none direct line. I would say there is a strong possibility that your Isaac is somehow connected to my lot. Mine are in Wirksworth from at least 1627, when James Allsop married Ellen Wall, until my great grandfather left for London in the mid 1880's.
Jan ;)
Hi, I see you mentioned James Allsop and Ellen Wall. Do you have any info on either of them further back, esp. James' father. Was his father Thomas, son of Anthony? I am speculating.
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Hi, I see you mentioned James Allsop and Ellen Wall. Do you have any info on either of them further back, esp. James' father. Was his father Thomas, son of Anthony? I am speculating.
Hi TABOO4
Welcome to Rootschat :D
I have no idea who James' father was I'm afraid, but, like you, have speculated on a connection to the Allsops of the Dale. James, John and Antony 'Esq' all baptised a son John in Wirksworth around the same time so that they are related seems very likely. It has been a quest to link us in since since at least my Grandpa's younger days, so nigh on a hundred years now, but so far we have failed! How are you related to the Wirksworth Allsops?
Jan ;)
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Hi, I see you mentioned James Allsop and Ellen Wall. Do you have any info on either of them further back, esp. James' father. Was his father Thomas, son of Anthony? I am speculating.
Hi TABOO4
Welcome to Rootschat :D
I have no idea who James' father was I'm afraid, but, like you, have speculated on a connection to the Allsops of the Dale. James, John and Antony 'Esq' all baptised a son John in Wirksworth around the same time so that they are related seems very likely. It has been a quest to link us in since since at least my Grandpa's younger days, so nigh on a hundred years now, but so far we have failed! How are you related to the Wirksworth Allsops?
Jan ;)
Hi, Glad to be a part of the discussion. I am Robert Bainbridge Alsop IV, directly related all the way back agnatically through Richard Alsop who was brought to American soil in 1665 at the age of 5 by his uncle Thomas Wandell, and onward in England back to James Allsop and Ellen Wall. It is a little frustrating not being able to trace back further at this time except by way of speculation, but kind of a relief anyway since Gamellus de Haleshoppe was most likely a Norman invader... I have some AngloSaxon pride. ;D
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Hi Robert
So you are descended from James and Susanna. Richard would have been taken to America around the time my ancestor Wandell was born (first of many taking Susanna's maidenname as a first name). Susanna died in 1667 but I'm not sure when James died - have you any idea? Did any of the other children go with Richard?
Jan ;)
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Hi Robert
So you are descended from James and Susanna. Richard would have been taken to America around the time my ancestor Wandell was born (first of many taking Susanna's maidenname as a first name). Susanna died in 1667 but I'm not sure when James died - have you any idea? Did any of the other children go with Richard?
Jan ;)
I have that James died: 1668, Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England. I know of only Richard being brought to America. Probably after both parents died, the older children were looking for others to help raise the kids, so Uncle Thomas Wandell must have volunteered to adopt Richard. Do you know who raised Wandell?
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There isn't a burial for James on the Wirksworth site but he must have died after Susanna as she is listed as 'wife of' at her 1667 burial. I don't know who looked after the younger children but I guess family. Your Richard would have gone with his uncle 2 yrs before his parents died if he went in 1665 - I wonder why? To offer him a better future?? Or could the date be wrong?
Jan ;)
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The date is iffy. Here are some conflicting sources:
According to Destruction of the Alsop House (Brooklyn Eagle, March 28, 1880):
"Thomas Wandell was the founder of the Alsop family, through Richard Alsop, his nephew, whom he brought from England, while a mere boy, about the year 1665 and adopted as his son and heir."
According to the American Historical Magazine, Volume II, January, 1907 to November, 1907 (The Americana Society, 1907; page 272):
"The first of the name in America was Richard Alsop, who inherited from his uncle, Thomas Wandell, a large estate of Newtown, Long Island. Richard Alsop came to this country between 1670 and 1685, and d. October 17, 1718."
According to Illustrated History of the Borough of Queens New York City (George Von Skal, 1908; page ):
"The Alsop family was also among the early settlers. Richard Alsop, the first of the name to locate here, came at the request of his uncle, one Thomas Wandell, who was said to have left England because he had become involved in a quarrel with Oliver Cromwell, though this report is doubtful, for it is known that Wandell was living at Mespat Kills in 1648, or before Charles I was put to death. He had secured a considerable tract of land by patents and purchase which he left to his nephew, Richard Alsop. The family he founded became extinct in 1837 when the last of the name died without issue."
According to this last one, I don't exist. :o
Also, I believe the first two of the above quotations are mistaken in that they assume Richard Alsop to be the first Alsop in America. The earliest mention of an Alsop in America that I have found is Joseph Alsopp (son of John and Temperance (Gilbert) Alsop; born: ~1621, Derby, England; baptized: January 18, 1621, Dale, Derby; married Elizabeth Preston [the eldest daughter of William Preston] in 1647; New Haven, New Haven, Connecticut; died: November 8, 1698, New Haven, Connecticut), who arrived at Boston accompanied by Thomas Alsopp (aged 20, Joseph's brother ?) at the age of 14 on the Elizabeth & Ann in 1635, from London, England; and from Boston went to New Haven, where he took an oath of fidelity in 1644. Joseph and Elizabeth's firstborn was Joseph Alsop II (born: 1648/9, New Haven, Connecticut; died: January 12, 1691, New Haven, Connecticut). Until I find info to suggest otherwise, I will assume Joseph Alsopp and Thomas Alsopp were the first Alsop's to come to America, and that Joseph's firstborn Joseph II, was the first Alsop born in America.
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So it is all a bit hazy but would seem most likely that Richard went to America after both his parents died (and the line definitely continued after 1837 and you do exist ;D)
Jan ;)
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I too am descended from James Allsop and Ellen Wall via James and Susannah and Wandall Allsop etc etc. I have found a Susana Allsop born in 1656 bit can find no verification for her .Can anyone please help me. I cannot find any birth/christening confirmation for James and Ellen. There are no notes in the Wirksworth OPC. Any ideas?
Naomer
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Hi Naomer
Welcome to Rootschat :D
I've not been able to go back beyond the marriage of James Allsop and Ellen Wall in 1626.
I have the marriage of James Allsopp to Susanna Wanndell Oct 5 1648 the 9 children of a James, no mother mentioned, are then baptised in Wirksworth from William in 1649 to Wandall in 1665 and include Susana in 1656 - given the inclusion of a Susana and a Wandall I feel that these are highly likely to be the children of James and Susanna nee Wandell. I do not have any further evidence. I am descended from Richard Allsop who married Sarah Wigley in 1728, I believe him to be the son of the Wandel Allsopp born 1665. Are you most likely descended from Susanna born 1656?
Jan ;)
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Hello Jan I have names for 9 children for for Susanna Waundell (spelt that way on her marriage listing ) and James Allsop but only 6 verifications. Are you happy to share notes with me?
My line is from Wandell Allsop and Mary Odgen, Sarah Wigley, Joseph Allsop and Alice Spencer Richard Allsop and John Allsop and Ann Ashover etc etc.
It seems like there is a brick wall - at present - at the marriage of Ellen Wall and James Allsop.
I am happy to share my email with you.
Naomer
Melbourne Aus.
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Hi
Yes the marriage of James and Ellen has been a brickwall since I began looking in 1999. My grandfather tried to connect the family with the Allopp's from Alsop-en-le-dale but failed and I have so far not managed either. I am very happy to share what I have with you. If you post here one more time then we can use the personal message system and share email addresses.
So you are descended from Richard and Sarah (nee Wigley) Allsop's son Joseph born 1740? I descend from their son Wandell born 1736 - or possibly their son William born 1729, there is unresolved confusion over this which I can tell you about by email if you are interested. I have notes copied from a family bible by my great grandfather, which gives all the children of Richard and Sarah - your Joseph was apparently also known as Josh- I will send you a copy.
When you say you have 6 verifications of the 9 children of James and Susanna what do you have? I only have the baptisms from the Wirksworth Parish records.
Look froward to hearing from you
Jan
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Hello Jan
Like you I only have the Wirksworth OPC dates. I find them very helpful there. it is time consuming however if I have a query they are helpful.
I have only been doing my family history for about 6 years so am a novice. My husband's both side arrived in Aus and changed their names hence a long hard search for them.
Fancy Joseph being called Josh that long ago.
I will wait to hear from you.
Naomer
Melbourne
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Hi again
When did your husband's Allsopps emigrate to Australia? Very unhelpful of them to change their name.
I've sent you a pm with my email. Look forward to hearing from you.
Jan ;)
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Would be interested to see any lists you have compiled see if I can match up any of my family.
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Hi
Welcome to Rootschat :D
Are you descended from Wirksworth Allsopps? If so I would be happy to share my family bible information but you will need to post a couple of more times here in order that we can exchange email addresses by Personal Message.
Perhaps you would like to post some names and dates here and maybe we can work out any connections?
Jan ;)
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im unsure on my family history. im 33 and the only family i have left are sisters an auntie an my father as far as i know.
My grandad passed afew years ago he was called Leonard Allsopp and was born april 29th 1927 died sept 13th 2011. He was married to Dorothy who passed away sept 15 2003 i think it was.
I didnt have much more information as never knew any great grandparents.
Len an dorothy had 2 sons Martyn and Mark an 1 daughter Michelle.
My unlce mark passed away tho in i think 1982 due to cystic fibrosis
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Hi
The first thing you need is to talk to any relatives and glean as much info as you can. The you will need your father's birth certificate which will give Dorothy's maiden-name, then you can find a marriage certificate for Leonard which will give his father's name, then Leonard's birth cert and so on and so on systematically backwards. Once you are back to anyone born before 1911 you can find them on censuses as well. If you find any born in Wirksworth you are on to a winner as the site
http://www.wirksworth.org.uk/
is a mine of information.
FreeBMD will help you search for marriages etc after 1837 .
Jan ;)
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I know I'm reviving an old thread, but it's a good one. 8)
The date is iffy. Here are some conflicting sources:
According to Destruction of the Alsop House (Brooklyn Eagle, March 28, 1880):
"Thomas Wandell was the founder of the Alsop family, through Richard Alsop, his nephew, whom he brought from England, while a mere boy, about the year 1665 and adopted as his son and heir."
According to the American Historical Magazine, Volume II, January, 1907 to November, 1907 (The Americana Society, 1907; page 272):
"The first of the name in America was Richard Alsop, who inherited from his uncle, Thomas Wandell, a large estate of Newtown, Long Island. Richard Alsop came to this country between 1670 and 1685, and d. October 17, 1718."
According to Illustrated History of the Borough of Queens New York City (George Von Skal, 1908; page ):
"The Alsop family was also among the early settlers. Richard Alsop, the first of the name to locate here, came at the request of his uncle, one Thomas Wandell, who was said to have left England because he had become involved in a quarrel with Oliver Cromwell, though this report is doubtful, for it is known that Wandell was living at Mespat Kills in 1648, or before Charles I was put to death. He had secured a considerable tract of land by patents and purchase which he left to his nephew, Richard Alsop. The family he founded became extinct in 1837 when the last of the name died without issue."
According to this last one, I don't exist. :o
Also, I believe the first two of the above quotations are mistaken in that they assume Richard Alsop to be the first Alsop in America ..
The American Historical Magazine statement that Richard is the first colonial Alsop is wrong -- they are different Alsops. Joseph of New Haven, CT, if he's related to Richard of Newtown, NY at all, is only distantly related "way back" in England. Illustrated History of the Borough of Queens says "first to locate here" which is true if "here" is Newtown, Queens, New York. ;)
Reasons why Richard of Newtown was the son of James Alsop and Susannah Wandell:
- Their child Richard was born 29 Nov 1659 (old style): "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J3L6-Z6F : accessed 15 May 2015), Richard Allsope, 27 Nov 1659; citing Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England, reference 2:3T197L3; FHL microfilm 1,041,042. -- this is, for all intents and purposes the same date as the American Richard.
- They both died in the 1660s.
- Thomas Wandell, Richard's uncle, is Susannah's older brother:
** "England, Derbyshire, Church of England Parish Registers, 1537-1918," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KBD6-RXL : accessed 15 May 2015), Thomas Wandell, 09 Apr 1625; citing Christening, All Saints Church, Derby, Derbyshire, England, Record Office, Matlock; FHL microfilm 1,041,144.
** "England, Derbyshire, Church of England Parish Registers, 1537-1918," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KBD6-T2H : accessed 16 May 2015), Zuzanna Wandell, 18 Jun 1628; citing Christening, All Saints Church, Derby, Derbyshire, England, Record Office, Matlock; FHL microfilm 1,041,144.
- Richard named one of his daughters Susannah (admittedly a pretty weak bit of evidence but it adds to all of the above)
Indeed, it looks like these two Wandells were two of perhaps eight children of Richard Wandell and an unknown mother who were baptised in the 1620s and 1630s in All Saints Church, Derby: https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=50&query=%2Bsurname%3Awandell~%20%2Bbirth_place%3A%22all%20saints%2C%20derbyshire%22~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1610-1630~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Arichard~
I have that James died: 1668, Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England. I know of only Richard being brought to America. Probably after both parents died, the older children were looking for others to help raise the kids, so Uncle Thomas Wandell must have volunteered to adopt Richard. Do you know who raised Wandell?
I believe it might have been a tad earlier (unless perhaps you have better information? :o )... I see this:
d. 26 Jul 1665 (old style)
"England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NG9D-FQL : accessed 16 May 2015), James, 26 Jul 1665; citing Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,041,042.
and this:
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=origins%2flichfieldconsistory%2f553 -- requires payment :( -- (what it says is that James Allsop was a husbandman whose will and inventory are on record in Lichfield Consistory Court Wills, as being from Ashelyhay, Wirksworth, proved 1666).
I would love to get my hands on that will! -- and if it's pertinent to this Alsop family, the bible records that `janan` mentioned!
Regards,
Daphne Maddox (one of the many 11th great-grandchildren of James and Susannah through Richard) :)
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I see now that there are two James Allsops dying in the 1660s in http://www.elkes.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=elkes&view=8&ver=704&lastname=Allsop . Great work on that,by the way!!!
Would a fourteen-year-old be listed as a husbandman and have a will/inventory? I ask because the one listed as dying in 1665 in that tree was 14 years old and the *son* of the other.... is it possible their dates are "backwards" in the tree? Or would a 14 year old be listed as husbandman and have a will/inventory? I'm not asking facetiously -- I really don't know whether the age of majority in England in the 1600s was still that young (I know it was so in earlier times)....
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Hallo very distant cousin Laurelnaiad, welcome to Rootschat :D
I haven't found a burial in Wirksworth for James who married Susanna Wandell - he was still alive on Jan 1st 1667 when Susanna was buried in Wirksworth as she is transcribed as 'wife of James' not 'widow', unless this is a mistake. The James buried in Wirksworth on 26 Jul 1665 is listed as 'son of James', the only son of James is baptised 1651. There is no other burial for a James around this time in the Wirksworth parish records as transcribed here
http://www.wirksworth.org.uk/PR003.htm#27
it is possible that John Palmer missed it off. Burials for Ashlehay would have been in Wirksworth. Without purchasing the will of James , husbandman of Ashlehay it is impossible to say who he was - the Findmypast entry is just the index information which you already have.
Jan ;)
The bible info only goes back to Richard son of Wandell baptised Wirksworth March 19th 1706, so probably of little interest to you, but you are very welcome to a copy.
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Thank you, janan!
> The James buried in Wirksworth on 26 Jul 1665 is listed as 'son of James', the only son of James is baptised 1651.
But there are three Jameses in a row, at least according to http://www.elkes.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=elkes&view=86&pid=3715&ver=704 ... so the two who died in the 1660s would both be sons of one James or the other, at least according to that tree.
> he was still alive on Jan 1st 1667 when Susanna was buried in Wirksworth as she is transcribed as 'wife of James' not 'widow', unless this is a mistake.
Ahh. :) I see that, now. Thank you for catching me up, my long lost cousin!
Frustrating that we're missing the middle James' death/burial info -- how has everyone concluded that he died in 1668, then, I wonder?
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Hi
Yes there were of course the 3 James, but it is unlikely that an older James would be listed as 'son of' at his burial, that is only the case for minors in my experience, but there could be exceptions.
I don't know where 1668 as year of death for James who married Susanna comes from, I notice Warren only has a year not a burial date so it could be a guess on someone's part. It is a mystery. He is my 7x g grandfather - I'm a bit out with the greats as my 2x g grandfather was 66 when my g grandfather was born.
Jan ;)
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Such a death date is certainly "handy" when you're trying to explain why Thomas Wandell (Susannah's brother) apparently "swooped in" and took their son Richard off to America.... that date fits with such a story very conveniently. Almost too conveneniently, I fear....
That said, the people who were originally writing in the 1800s of Thomas Wandell's adoption of Richard seemed to know nothing about the Wandells and Alsops in England when they described the adoption, and such an issue is more of an American concern than a British one anyway, so 1668 probably isn't just derived from that supposition nor vice-versa.
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Hi,
I see that this is a very old post, but nonetheless:
My 4th great Uncle John Massey died at Marston on Dove, according to his probate. John was baptised at Mugginton 1744 the son of Thomas Massey and Hannah Harrison.
John's brother Thomas was my 4g grandfather and according to his probate, he died at Hungry Bentley. Thomas Massey is describe as a farmer on his marriage license. It seems likely that the family were farmers at Hungry Bentley as the farm is the only abode in the parish of Hungry Bentley, which is described as "a deserted medieval village and civil parish". You can find it on google maps if you search Hungry Bentley.
Thomas married Ann Holmes by license in 1783 and their son John was my 3g grandfather. He was a schoolmaster at Turnditch, a few miles away from Hungry Bentley.
...The quest continues
Regards
Phil How