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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: Charlieralph on Friday 22 October 04 14:50 BST (UK)

Title: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Friday 22 October 04 14:50 BST (UK)
Any body any information on William Ralph born c1811
in the Bilston Wolvehampton area
He married Elizabeth Perry in 1832 at St.Peters Wolverhampton
Known offspring Thomas Ralph c1834 of Bilston
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 22 October 04 15:07 BST (UK)
I have a Thomas Ralph who was my Great Grandmothers first husband but he was born 1858 in Bilston

Might be related...... or not.......
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Friday 22 October 04 15:27 BST (UK)
Thomas Ralph born 1834 did have a first born son also named Thomas born in Bilston about this time.Ill check over the records for you this weekend. Just may be a link
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 22 October 04 15:33 BST (UK)
Okey Dokey! It could well be the same one
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Sunday 24 October 04 07:37 BST (UK)
Sorry
The other Thomas I have came along much later but somehow a connection must be in the family, as so few Ralphs lived in the Bilston area and he maybe a son of Thomas Ralph christened 4th Jan 1835 at Bilston
Genes Reunited also have a Thomas Ralph 1858 posted.
Do you have any more detail on your Ralph tree which may help both our searches?
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Monday 25 October 04 10:20 BST (UK)
No sorry I don't I only found out about him went someone kindly looked up my Great Grandmother when I couldn't find some of my Great Uncles who turned out to be from her first marriage to Thomas

The Thomas Ralph posted on Genes Reunited is mine and all I know is that he was born c1858 and they were married in 1877. I don't know what happened to him after that whether he died or they divorced but Mary married Henry Hilton in 1889

I agree that there must be some connection because Ralph is not a common surname in Bilston but he could have come down another branch of your family

I will have to check further and let you know

I have checked on family search and there is listed in the 1881 census as living in Bilston

Thomas - 39 - Iron worker
Louisa - 41
Henry J - 17
Thomas - 14
Louisa - 12
Annie M - 10
Eliza Jane - 8

There is also Eliza Ralph aged 60

Strange thing is one of my Thomas Ralph's daughters is called Eliza to so I guess there is some connection

The link is http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/default.asp if you want to do a seach
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Monday 25 October 04 12:18 BST (UK)
I take it that Thomas married Mary Ann Mears 1877
Taken from Wolverhampton records Volume 6b Page 660.
Have you got or sent for a copy of the wed cert as this will give parents name which hopefully once again will be Thomas Ralph ?
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Monday 25 October 04 12:21 BST (UK)
No sorry I haven't got round to it yet  :(

On my Grandfathers birth certificate Mears was spelt Meers
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Monday 25 October 04 12:42 BST (UK)
Same as Ralph can be Rolfe /ralphs and so on. The wedding cert can be ordered on line via

http://web1.netnation.com/~bmsgh/staffsbmd/marriages.html
Information found on Thomas and Mary marriage:-
England and Wales, Civil Registration Index: 1837-1983
Viewing record 1 of 1 match for: 
Mary Mears 
 About this database
 A collection of indexes to Birth, Marriage, and Death records for England and Wales, between 1837 and 1983. More information below
 
  « Global Search Results 
 
Name Year Quarter District County Volume Page
 
MEARS, Mary Ann 1877 March Wolverhampton Shropshire Staffordshire West Midlands 6b 660
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Monday 25 October 04 16:18 BST (UK)
Will let you know when I have got it  :)
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Tuesday 26 October 04 08:31 BST (UK)
O.K. Its allways nice when you get that cert via the postman and you can prove a line and open a new female line with both hers and farthers name (instant jump back one more generation) which you need anyway for her line.
As regards Thomas Ralph 1834. Ive just had an e-mail from a guy in the US and it would appear that Thomas had 2 brothers Joseph and James (no DOB supplied as yet) so you have a strong possibility that your line is from one of them, will be interesting to prove and worth looking for in the available census for both James and Joseph Ralph
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 26 October 04 09:28 BST (UK)
Thanx for that will go and have a dig in the census
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Tuesday 26 October 04 11:55 BST (UK)
Happy days.  Ive now linked William to a 1807 birth which goes to prove you cant allways go off census age which he gave as a birth date of 1811 anyway information as follows:

Thomas Ralph Christening 4th Jan 1835 Bilston
Parents William Ralph /Elizabeth Perry
Married St Peters Wolverhampton 17th Dec 1832

Elizabeth Perry Christened 21 July 1811 Bilston
William Ralph Christened 25th Oct 1807 Bilston
Brothers:- James Ralph Christened 12th Aug 1816 Bilston
                 Joseph Ralph Ch             20 Sept 1812 Bilston

Parents William Ralph/ Mary Fletcher
Married St Peters Wlverhampton12th July 1802
Mary died of Cholera in 1832 age 55.Bur Swan Bank Church.

Thanks for all your help. One Happy Ralph. Your line should come from James 1816  or Joseph 1812

Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 26 October 04 12:08 BST (UK)
Ok thanx for that at least I know where I am looking now

 ;D
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Tuesday 09 November 04 10:07 GMT (UK)
Found your Thomas in the 1871 census as follows:-
No2 Court, Prunkney St Wolverhampton
Mathew Ralph Head age47 Blank tray maker born W`ton
Elizabeth        Wife   age44 Born Walsall
Ellen                D       age18 House work born Bilston
John                S       age 15 Safe Maker          Bilston
Thomas           S       age 13 Bottle Jack Maker Bilston
Ann                 D       age11  Sch                       W`ton
Leteice            D       age 5                                W`ton
Harriet             D       age 1                               W`ton

Mathew Ralph Married Lettice Bate 5th Oct 1819 at Tipton Staffordshire

Mathew Ralph Christening 12th Sept 1824 St Leonard, Bilston. Parents Thomas and Lettice
Other offsring of Thomas and Lettice:-
Elizabeth 21st March 1820. St Leonard
Sarah 21st April 1822. St Leonard Bilston.

The link with my tree gets nearer but still not proved

Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 09 November 04 10:19 GMT (UK)
Thats brilliant thanx

Have found out the following about Thomas' children

James joined the Staffords and is listed in the 1901 census as being at Aldershot military base

Matthew also joined the Staffords and his army number was 3618 (found him on the medal rolls)

Letitia and Eliza had a joint wedding to a Karl Hermann Kuhnitzsch and a Walter Leslie Hale in 1910 at Marylebone (not sure who married who)

When I find out any more I will let you know

Willow x
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Tuesday 09 November 04 11:43 GMT (UK)
I THINK THE THOMAS 3nd of APRIL 1785 IS A STRONG PROBABLE FOR THOMAS /LETTICE BUT IS AN UNPROVED LINK, THIS WOULD PUT THOMAS AT 34YEARS OLD AT MARRIAGE.
Francis Ralph unknown (End of the line)
                          Elizabeth Westwood
    Francis Ralph married Elizabeth Westwood 29th May 1769 at St Peters Wolverhampton
Offspring :- William Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston 29nd April 1780
                    Thomas Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston 2nd April 1785
                    Sarah   Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston  21 Aug 1774 Buried St. Leonard’s Bilston 18th Nov 1774
                    Nancy Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston  21 Aug   1774 Buried St. Leonard’s Bilston 19th Oct 1776
                    Francis Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston  22nd Oct1775 may have died no record found
                    Francis Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston  10th Oct 1782
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: RachelK on Thursday 02 December 04 00:55 GMT (UK)
Hi Charlie and Willow,

I think I am descended from a Letitia Ralph who was born 1880 Wolves and the half sis of your William Hilton, Willow. (Have e-mailed you on Genes Reunited and saw your link to here)

I've found references for Letitia Ralph marrying Joseph Kendrick (my gt grandfather) in 1900. (on 1901 census) Both the names Ralph and Letitia run in my family. My father's first name is Ralph as is my brother's middle name. I hope I have the right connection Willow and that also we establish a connection with your Ralphs, Charlie!
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 02 December 04 11:21 GMT (UK)
Hiya Rachel

There is every chance you are right about our Letitia's being connected. I did come across Joseph Kendrick and thought they might be the right couple but there are so may Letitia's in the Ralph family it could be I have got them mixed up with the wrong ones somewhere along the line.

My uncle said that her husband was a William Timmins and I also have another Letitia b 1865 who married a John William Foster in 1888. He did say that Letitia had a daughter called Letitia who also had a daughter called Letitia so it can all get a bit muddled.

BTW that last Letitia was an international ice skating star when she was a child and she died in Bridgnorth about 5 years ago he says

Mary Ann Mears was definitely my Great Grandmother although she was listed as Mary Ann Ralph on Williams birth certificate

So YAY!! - I think we're related!

Willow x
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Thursday 02 December 04 12:18 GMT (UK)
Letitia`s name will run in a few family lines, as it was the
custom to give offspring the parents,grand parents, brothers and sisters names. So don't make a connection until you can prove it.
The earliest record we have of a Letitia:-
Mathew Ralph Married Lettice Bate 5th Oct 1819 at Tipton Staffordshire, so any offspring off above will probably have a Lettice/ Letitia (spell it any way, as this family are mostly illiterate up to 1860`s +) in each of the male descendent's of Thomas all born within 10/15 year span of each other in each family.
Once again the only sure way is to get a copy of Wedding and Birth certs to give names of parents and go back a generation and start again. Only then can you g`tee you have it right on you family, otherwise it is unproved and may be wrong.




Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 03 December 04 12:41 GMT (UK)
Don't worry Charlie we will not start planning the family reunion until were sure of the facts

and yes you will get an invite   ;)

Willow x
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Friday 03 December 04 13:30 GMT (UK)
Funny you should say that. One allready takes place in the US over the Thanks Giving Weekend with over 2000
Ralph's and descendants present.
At the moment we would be lucky to get a table with 6 round it. We could always get a flight and gate crash next years reunion in the States.LOL
One thing, it is nice to see the interest growing in the Ralph(s) research around the Midlands area and sooner or later a link will be made by a few families.
 It is also possible that we have a link to the "Penn. Ralphs"(Litchfield) who go back to the 1600s which I'm presently researching for any links. (None so far.)
Maybe its time to open a new Topic headed
"Ralph(s) Family of the Midlands"and see how many more we can attract in to the fold.

Charlie
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 03 December 04 13:58 GMT (UK)
Good idea!

Its nice to know that we're decended from one of the founding families (thought in my case its only by marriage)

Willow x
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: RachelK on Friday 03 December 04 19:33 GMT (UK)
Hi again!

Willow have e-mailed you and thanks for your message Charlie.

Letitia Ralph c.1880 first married Joseph Kendrick (the line I come from) and later she married William Timmins and they had a daughter Letitia Timmins.

Letitia Timmins had 3 daughters, Letitia, Sylvia and Wendy, this last Letitia being the figure skater you mention Willow. So your Uncle was right about her marrying a Timmins, he was her second husband.
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 07 December 04 15:23 GMT (UK)
Hey I worked it out Rachel

I'm your 1/2 2nd cousin once removed!!

Wow what a mouthful lol

Willow x
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Friday 17 December 04 13:53 GMT (UK)
Ive done a little research on Letitia and can now confirm what I think is your direct descendants as follows

Francis Ralph unknown
                          Elizabeth Westwood  Uknown
Francis Ralph married Elizabeth Westwood 29th May 1769 at St Peters Wolverhampton  offspring Christened as Ralph and  Ralphs)
Offspring :-
William Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston 29nd April 1780
Thomas Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston 2nd April 1785
Sarah Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston  21 Aug 1774 Buried St. Leonard’s Bilston  18th Nov  1774
 Nancy Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston  21 Aug   1774 Buried St. Leonard’s Bilston 19th Oct 776
Francis Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston  22nd Oct 1775 may have married Mary Jukes 1797?
 Francis Ralph Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston  10th Oct 1782   

From LDS on line
Thomas Ralph Married Lettice Bate 5th Oct 1819 at Tipton Staffordshire
Offspring:-
Elizabeth Ralph 21st March 1820 St Leonard, Bilston. Parents Thomas and Lettice
Sarah Ralph 21st April 1822 St Leonard, Bilston. Parents Thomas and Lettice
Mathew Ralph Christening 12th Sept 1824 St Leonard, Bilston. Parents Thomas and Lettice

(Possible Letitia Bates born 1799 St Philips Birmingham)

From 1871 census No 2 Court Pountney St Wolverhampton

Mathew Ralph Head age 47 Wolverhampton
Elizabeth        Wife          44 Walsall
Ellen                               18 Bilston Christened 11th May 1851 St Mary Bilston
John                               15 Bilston
Thomas                         13 Bilston
Ann                                11 Wolverhampton Christened 18 Oct 1860 St Mary Bilston
Leteice                             5 Wolverhampton
Harriet                            1 Wolverhampton

Letita Ralph Christened 3rd Feb 1850 St Mary Bilston of Mathew/ Elizabeth


From 1881 census No 6  Court Pountney St Wolverhampton

Thomas Ralph Head age 23 Bilston
Mary Ann(Mears) Wife      23
James                                   2 Wolverhampton
Letitia                                 6 months Wolverhampton

Thomas married Mary Ann Mears 1877
Taken from Wolverhampton records Volume 6b Page 660.

Now lets see if anybody can find Francis Ralph(s) c1749
or the marriage of Mathew Ralph and Elizabeth 1845/50
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: RachelK on Friday 07 January 05 19:52 GMT (UK)
Ok just having a total brain bleed over the Ralphs right now, I think too many people with too similar names!

Was Mathew Ralph c1824's wife's name Elizabeth or Eliza? (1871 census, 2 court pountney/prunkney/whatever it says street) her name is written Eliza.

Willow I think you have the wrong Mathew and Eliza in the doc you sent me because the dates appear too late? :-\ Also their son John who you have as marrying Eliza Brown Geary in 1880, appears to still be living with his mother on 1881 so maybe this isn't right either?

Eliza Ralph abt 1821  Bilston, Staffordshire, England Head  Wolverhampton   
Harriet Ralph abt 1870  Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Daughter  Wolverhampton   
John Ralph abt 1854  Bilston, Staffordshire, England Son  Wolverhampton   
Letticia Ralph abt 1865  Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Daughter 

Sorry to be a pain but I'm just really getting myself confused. They seem to name their children all the same names, so it's quite easy for us to get mixed up! Tell me what you think, thanks.

Rachel xx
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Friday 07 January 05 22:30 GMT (UK)
Rachel,
  Brain Bleed over the same names ? Im becoming Brain Dead over the Elizabeth
 Yes, it should be Eliza and an other interesting thing is her age has changed in the 1881 census so she could have been born in c1821 or 1827.
We also now know that Mathew may have died between 1871 and 1881 so worth a search for his death cert.

May be worth a post for a search in the 1861 census for
Mathew age 37, Eliza age 34, Ellen age 8,  John age 5 and Thomas and Ann Ralph

Brain Dead Charlie
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Monday 10 January 05 12:06 GMT (UK)
Why cant we find a marriage for Mathew and Eliza?
Possible non conformist marriage (not recorded)
We have 2 possible birth dates for Eliza from the census 1821 or 1827
With Letitia (1850 ,see below)being the oldest known daughter, the marriage should have taken place pre Dec 1849.
Also Ellen`s Christening was the 11th May 1851 of Mathew and Eliza (not Elizabeth)yet the census has her birth as c1853.
John birth could also be 1854 or 1856 from census

From St Mary church records Bilston Christenings.I can now confirm the following and an other Letitia for for Mathew and Eliza
Letitia 3rd Feb 1850 (did this one die?)
Ellen 11May 1851
Ann 18th Oct 1860
Rachel, this will probable cause another brain bleed. Sorry
Charlie








Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: RachelK on Monday 10 January 05 14:39 GMT (UK)
LOL ta Charlie,

Wouldn't be worthwhile if it was easy though would it?

Had a quick look on free bmd, there is a death listed for a Letitia Ralph.

March 1/4 1850 Wolverhampton.

Could this be the extra Letitia? I don't know where Bilston would be registered sorry.
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Monday 10 January 05 20:55 GMT (UK)
Hiya Rachael & Charlie

Probably have got it wrong about John and Eliza Geary. Now I cant find my note about it either grrrrrr

Not sure which dates your on about relating to Matthew and Eliza. I have got that Matthew died 1871 2nd 1/4 6b 289 but I can't find a marriage cerificate for them either. From my notes somewhere I'm sure they were both listed as being born in Walsall on the one census so it might be a case of confirming that and having a trip to look at the parish register.

Bilston would come under Wolverhampton registry district Rachel

Found my other notes! (not the ones I was looking for but...) John married Sarah Hill 1887 3rd 1/4 6b 729. She died in 1908 1st 1/4 6b 388 and then he went on to marry Harriet Paskin (Mears) on 28.7.1912 which was the one I found in the parish register. Harriet was Marys sister.

Hope this helps stem some of the bleeding  ;D

Willow x

BTW Charlie did you get the e-mail of notes I sent you?
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: RachelK on Monday 10 January 05 22:54 GMT (UK)
Ahhhh yes, thanks Willow.

Found John and Sarah on 1891 in Pountney St, with Sarah's mother Hannah Hill aged 68 & 1901 just the two of them. No kiddies though.  :( Sweet that he married Harriet after he lost his wife.

I wonder who the John Ralph and Eliza Geary were?

Also, Willow on 1871 the actual document says Mathew born Walsall, Eliza and the children Bilston except the last two Letitia and Harriet W-ton. Don't know how accurate this is, as people seem to like changing their minds about where they were born, as with with our Mears grandparents

Anyway the confusion was basically because in the Ralph doc you sent me, it said Mathew b1843 m Eliza b1837. But then, I keep confusing myself who's who anyway!
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Monday 10 January 05 23:04 GMT (UK)
lol tell me about it I think the Ralphs have caused the most confusion in all of my family tree

Unfortunatly I think that document I sent you was an old one and I hadn't updated it - SORRRYYY

and yes when I found John and Harriets marriage certificate I went AAHHHHH! - that got some funny looks in the archive office lol

Willow x
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: RachelK on Monday 10 January 05 23:21 GMT (UK)
Heehee, does that mean the marriages on it are wrong then?

Before I start going  ??? and annoying you some more coz I can't find them on then census!

My dad made me laugh when I show him stuff coz he says to me 'yes I remember a few Elizas and Letitias being in the family', try half a dozen just to confuse us.  ::)
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Monday 10 January 05 23:32 GMT (UK)
Willow,
Yes I did get your e-mail but any reply bounces back as undeliverable to your address.

Rachel and Willow
The mix up in dates are from the 1871 and 1881 census,
The dates given of year of birth vary between the two.
The birth place of Mathew is given as Wallsall in census
and Eliza as Bilston. The birth place and Christening place can be different and the other Ralph's at St Marys Bilston are known family members and all non conformists (Methodists) which I think is the reason for not finding a marriage date for Mathew and Eliza.
So Mathew could have been born in Walsall and with his father marrying in Tipton we have a strong possibility that they are connected with the canal system, which could help us give a reason for Mathew being born in Walsall and Christened in Bilston.
I will be checking the 1860 census shortly and the 1841
so I will let you know if anything turns up.
Charlie.
P.S. I MAY HAVE TURNED SOMETHING UP ON YOUR MEARS LINE BUT NEED MORE TIME TO CONFIRM AND ITS IN WARRINGTON LANCASHIRE NOT APPLETON CHESHIRE, IN NON CONFORMIST RECORDS
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: RachelK on Monday 10 January 05 23:45 GMT (UK)
Oooooh exciting Charlie!

I feel a bit redundant being a beginner in all this and not being able to help you two much.

In this old doc Willow you had Harriet Ralph married Moses Adams, but would I be right in saying she married John Embery and this is them in 1891 & 1901 with her mum Eliza?

Harriet Embery 31  Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Wife  Wolverhampton  Staffordshire   
Harriet Embery 8  Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Daughter  Wolverhampton  Staffordshire   
John Embery 32  Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Head  Wolverhampton  Staffordshire   
Eliza Rolph 81  Bilston, Staffordshire, England Mother-in-law  Wolverhampton 

(on 1891 Eliza is listed as just 'Ralph' - no first name, aged 68) also they had a daughter Emma Embery in '91 aged 5mths on census. I suppose she must have died.

If you two already know this then I'll stop waffling, just thought I'd put my ideas in.
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 11 January 05 00:03 GMT (UK)
Hiya Rachel & Charlie

Thanx for clearing that one up Rachel it was one I was not sure of and couldnt discount either and as I could only find Moses on his own in a later census I wasnt sure if Harriet had died. Your really getting into the swing of things  ;)

It sounds like you might be on to something exciting Charlie. Dont worry if you cant get me on the new address I still have my old one so use that instead.

The info I sent you I wasnt sure if you already had it but thought it was better to pass it on

Willow x
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 11 January 05 00:18 GMT (UK)
Yep Emma Eliza born 1890 4th 1/4 6b 498 and died 1891 3rd 1/4 6b 299

John married Harriet 1889 4th 1/4 6b 912  ;D
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: RachelK on Tuesday 11 January 05 00:20 GMT (UK)
And probably ours...

March 1/4 1908 deaths

Eliza Ralph aged 87 W-ton 6b 383

(Mathew's wife)
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Tuesday 11 January 05 00:33 GMT (UK)
Just a Quick Q`s

Have you made any connection with Mears and  Hannah Boffy of Warrington or any other Boffy?

You can now take it that Eliza was born in 1821
1908-87= 1821. Thats one sorted out.

Eliza Rolph 81  Bilston. Can any one spell or add dates up in this family?.
A family from Walsal exsist with this name or near it. I`ll check it out
This may open up a different line. Hope not because it all seems to fit at present, but it will have to be checked out.

Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: RachelK on Tuesday 11 January 05 00:50 GMT (UK)
This is them on 1871

Hannah Boffy 23  Bilston, Staffordshire, England Sister  Wolverhampton  Staffordshire   
Thomas Jones 55  Brewood, Staffordshire, England Visitor  Wolverhampton  Staffordshire   
Harriet Mears 39  Griesly, Leicestershire, England Wife  Wolverhampton  Staffordshire   
Harriet Mears 15  Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Daughter  Wolverhampton  Staffordshire   
James Mears 38  Appleton, Lancashire, England Head  Wolverhampton  Staffordshire   
Mary Ann Mears 13  Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Daughter  Wolverhampton 

So from this all I can assume is that Hannah Boffy is James' sister, but she is listed as unmarried. I thought perhaps Boffy would be her married name? Don't know anything else I'm afraid.

If she was a widow it would say wouldn't it? Or do you think for some other reason they have different surnames?
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Tuesday 11 January 05 01:09 GMT (UK)
Brill,
Hannah Should be Harriets sister Harriet Mears nee Boffy dont you think?
I know its not adding up, and I need time to make the Warrington connection but could this be James
James Mears 13th Nov 1832, Mount Pleasent Wesleyan Stafford of James / Rosehannah Ellis
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: RachelK on Tuesday 11 January 05 01:14 GMT (UK)
LOL Charlie, getting frustrated with our ancestors bad spelling?! >:( ;D

Eliza is Rolph on 1901 but she was definitely Ralph on 1891 living with Harriet Embery, so I hope the former was just written down incorrectly by the enumerater. No idea how to spell that, I've inherited the bad spelling haha!

I just checked Willow's tree on Genes Reunited, and I see she had James Mears' wife Harriet as Harriet Boffy. Maybe she thought Hannah was Harriet's sister not James'?

*Just read your new post in the middle of this, I get it now. It confused me (again) because I thought people were listed in terms of relationship to the head, in which case if Hannah was Harriet's sis, it would say sister in Law.
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Tuesday 11 January 05 01:34 GMT (UK)
This all starts to add up. The Mears and Boffy family are Methodists. The Boffy family come from around North Stafford and she should have a brother also called James who moved to Warrington from Wolverhampton
and was Christened in Burton on Trent. All I have to do now is find which circuit of Methodists is Burton on Trent
and hope they are listed.
Charlie
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Thursday 13 January 05 13:41 GMT (UK)
The Mears / Boffy connection has fallen flat on its face.
but has brought up how Boffy may have been spelled
Boffey, Boffy or Boffie ?

James Mears 13th Nov 1832, Mount Pleasent Wesleyan Stafford of James / Rosehannah Ellis (Leek Circuit)could be your James. Worth a check of records for Leek circuit and a copy of record.
With ref to Appleton birth, could he have been connected with the canals? If he had been born in Appleton then he should have known it was in Cheshire not Lancashire and even if he was born in Appleton it doesn't mean he came from the area or was Christened in it. Having said that the Leek circuit may have included Appleton.Once again worth checking.
The James Boffy 1845(from Wolverhampton, living in Warrington had his kids Christened at Bold St Methodists Warrington)I was looking for had 3 sisters who are Christened Boffey:-
Harriot 3rd Sept 1826 Wesleyan circuit Burton on Trent
Hannah 3rd Set 1826 (Twin ?)
Martha 1st Feb 1832
So near yet so far
Charlie
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: RachelK on Thursday 13 January 05 14:14 GMT (UK)
 ??? Well I haven't a clue what these Mears were on about but...

On 1871 census there are 316 matches for people saying they were born Appleton, Lancashire. So were they all wrong/lying or have the boundaries changed at some point and it's been part of both counties?

As for Harriet's Griesly, Leicestershire she is the ONLY match, so that looks like a definite lie. Nothing similar on the place names lists on genuki either.

The Boffy family which you thought were connected, why do you now think that's wrong? Because they appear to be twins therefore Hannah & Harriet should be same age, or something else?
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: RachelK on Thursday 13 January 05 14:17 GMT (UK)
Oh and the year of births are too early, didn't notice that. Obviously not got my thinking cap on today. ::)
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 13 January 05 14:40 GMT (UK)
Well even if it didnt pan out was worth knowing

Charlie where do I find details of the methodist circuit? I've just found out my Great Grandmothers maiden name but they were all methodist too so having a right game trying to find marriages for her siblings. Why arent methodists listed like any other BMD?

Willow x
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Thursday 13 January 05 14:54 GMT (UK)
Appleton Cheshire?

http://www.fhsc.org.uk/genuki/chs/appleton.htm

As and from 1832 its been in North Cheshire or does another Appleton exist in Lancashire?

Mears line could well be at an end and Griesly? not even looked for it, but could be more boundry changes. I think its in Derbyshire,

Methodist records. Ill e-mail you but don't get your hopes up.
Charlie



Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Thursday 13 January 05 15:05 GMT (UK)
Found a Griesly but not in Leicestershire but in Crewe Cheshire. I just wonder if this is Bargee folk again?
Don't forget as you will find out from any wedding certs on order that the family are mainly illiterate, so anything goes to get rid of that bloke on the doorstep asking questions.
Charlie
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 13 January 05 15:21 GMT (UK)
ok thanks Charlie case of if I dont try I wont know

I think Greisly was a misspelling anyway on the census. I know theres a Graisley but thats an area in Wolverhampton

Willow x
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Thursday 13 January 05 16:41 GMT (UK)
Rachel, you should have your e-mail.
Not all marriages have been placed on line as yet. Its always worth coming back and checking for anything missing in a years time.
Staffordshire BDM is growing all the time but once again it will be years before its complete.
Its also worth remembering that someone can be christened John Thomas but know as Thomas so the census and the recorded birth name can be different.
My great granddad with known as Charles William Ralph
but it turned out he was a William Charles Ralph. It lead me a dance for months.
Charlie
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: RachelK on Thursday 13 January 05 16:55 GMT (UK)
Got the mail Charlie thanks, very helpful explaining about these non conformists.

I know the problem with name changes too, my grandmother was registered Mary Dorine, but always known as Dorine.

Also her mother who I'm still investigating I think changed her surname. Argh!

(btw it was Willow looking for a marriage, hope she got that e-mail too ;))
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Friday 14 January 05 00:40 GMT (UK)
Bye the way, have any of you worked out how many shotgun weddings you have?
It well worth checking as most seemed to be at it before marriage. Nothing seems to have changed much over the last couple of hundred years. I can remember my father saying his mother went up the wall and they had to keep it secret and away from his granddad.
Guess what? You got it, his granddad had a shotgun wedding and he was a methodist minister. Just wish dad was still about to tell, he would have loved that one.
Charlie


Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Friday 14 January 05 10:03 GMT (UK)
Lets see if we can really get you into this research on line. It should save you a lot of time visiting the local records office/library
If you two are still having problems searching for parish records and what records are available on-line at LDS try this shortcut it will give you area ,parish and the available on line record dates.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountryEngland.htm#PageTitle

They will also help in any research material required and get it for you to research at the local family research unit which in your case I think will be:-
Latter Day Saints
Linthouse Lane
Wednesfield
Wolverhampton
Wolverhampton, West Midlands, WV11, West Midlands County, England
Phone: 1902-724097
Hours: W-F 9.30am-4.30pm; W, F 7pm-9pm; LDS only T 9.30am-1pm, 7pm-8.30pm.
Other family centres are doted around the UK which you can check for on line
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Willow 4873 on Saturday 15 January 05 09:24 GMT (UK)
Received a copy of James Mears death certificate today

He died 3.8.1887 of ' General debility and kidney disease' at home in Ablow Street. Harriet was present at the death and signed with a mark

Thanx for the link Charlie I will have a good look and see what I can find

Willow x
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Saturday 15 January 05 10:58 GMT (UK)
Firstly, Appleton Cheshire. Just found out that registry office, Main Parish  for above was in Warrington Lancashire in those days so this may be the reason for Appleton Lancashire?

So welcome to the illiterate age when any missspelling of names is by others, so keep an eye open for Rolph, Relph and Ralphs and so on including your own family names you are researching.
Charlie
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: RachelK on Tuesday 08 February 05 16:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Willow & Charlie.

Hope everything's well with you two. Being bored I was just looking on IGI which I find confusing at the best of times, but I think I found 2 children of Thomas & Lettice Ralph that haven't been mentioned yet?

John Ralph christened 08 April 1832 Bilston
Mary Ralph christened 06 July 1834 Bilston
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Tuesday 08 February 05 18:12 GMT (UK)
Looks like two more need adding and they are keeping the same names  running in the family, Ive not done much research over the last month this may kick start it up again. This is the total out of that Lds batch:-
1. MARY RALPH - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 06 JUL 1834 Bilston, Stafford, England
 
 2. GEORGE RALPH - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 12 FEB 1832 Bilston, Stafford, England
 
 3. JOHN RALPH - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 08 APR 1832 Bilston, Stafford, England
 
 4. JOHN RALPH - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 10 AUG 1834 Bilston, Stafford, England
 
 5. THOMAS RALPH - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 04 JAN 1835 Bilston, Stafford, England
 
 6. SARAH ANNE RALPH - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 29 JAN 1832 Bilston, Stafford, England
 
 7. JANE RALPH - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 27 MAR 1831 Bilston, Stafford, England 

Thomas is my great great g/dad

Keep at it
Charlie
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: RachelK on Tuesday 08 February 05 19:51 GMT (UK)
Oh bleeeeeding hell! Willow's lost her tree, I'm just lost regardless, too many Ralphs and too many similar first names. ::)

1st question for you Charlie, I'm totally oblivious to your line now. Is yours from William Ralph & Mary Fletcher?

Is that William, Thomas' brother? (as in the Thomas who married Lettice and is myself and Willow's line)

Or you say yours is Thomas son of William and Elizabeth, so this is a different William?!  ???

Willow my tree is all on GR so if you want to have a look feel free, I think it's right, mainly it's what we've discussed here and what Charlie's helped to find.

The 2 new siblings I found are another brother and sister of MATTHEW RALPH father of Thomas Ralph (Mary Ann Mears' hubby).

As far as I can tell from census, this John c.1832 married an Elizabeth and had the following...

John
Elizabeth
Letitia
Mary A
Clara

Their son John was the one who married Eliza Geary (someone we were confused over earlier) and they had the following children...

Mary Ann
Eliza
Matthew
Lettie Ruth
John
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: Charlieralph on Tuesday 08 February 05 23:27 GMT (UK)
OK heres my line. Confused with so many families with the same first names ?
Join the club, I'm getting lost with them all, I hope they didn't all go to family weddings can you imagine it :-
"Hi William hows you son William and I see your cousin William is hear talking to Thomas"
" O I, which Thomas is that then ?"

Any way my line and I will leave it with you to work out who fits in with who and when. Good luck, I'm off to bed with a headacre. LOL

Unproved link:-Francis Ralph unknown
                          Elizabeth Westwood  Unknown
Francis Ralph married Elizabeth Westwood 29th May 1769 at St Peters Wolverhampton ( offspring Christened as Ralph and  Ralphs)
Offspring :- William Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston 29nd April 1780
                    Thomas Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston 2nd April 1785
                    Sarah   Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston  21 Aug 1774 Buried St. Leonard’s Bilston 18th Nov            .                   1774
                    Nancy Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston  21 Aug   1774 Buried St. Leonard’s Bilston 19th Oct .                   .                   1776
                    Francis Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston  22nd Oct 1775 may have married Mary Jukes 1797?
                    Francis Ralph Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston  10th Oct 1782
                     
Proven links as follows
 William Ralph 1780
 Mary Fletcher   DOB c1780/Place unknown. Died of Cholera and Buried at Swan Bank Church Bilston29th Aug 1832 age 52years
   William Ralph married Mary Fletcher 12th July 1802 at St Peters Wolverhampton
                         
Offspring: - Elizabeth Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston 7th Nov 1802 Buried St. Leonard’s Bilston 21 Oct 1804
                     John        Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston 25th March 1805 Buried St. Leonard’s Bilston 31st Dec 1806
                     William   Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston 25th Oct 1807
                     Mathew   Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston 31st Dec 1809
                   Joseph     Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston 20th Sept 1812
                     James      Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston   12th Aug 1816
                    Thomas    Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston 18th Jan 1818
                     Mary                         St. Leonard’s Bilston     9th Sept 1821
                     Sarah Maria             St. Leonard’s Bilston      7th Aug 1825

William Ralph 1807 Bilston / Death unknown
Elizabeth Perry            Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston  21st July 1811. Death unknown
.Parents John & Elizabeth Perry
           William married Elizabeth Perry  17th Dec 1832 at St Peters Wolverhampton
Offspring: - Thomas c1834 Christened St. Leonard’s Bilston 4th Jan 1835
                    James    c1838 ?
                    Joseph   c1841 ?

Thomas Ralph c1834 Bilston/ Death unknown
Mary Gandy c1840     Christened unknown. Parents Charles &  Pheobe Gandy
Thomas moved to Wigan Lancashire between 1871/1876


Offspring: - Phebe c1860 Moxley Staffordshire
                    John Thomas c1863 Moxley Staffordshire
                Mary Ellen c1865 Moxley Staffordshire 26 June 1864 St Mary Bilston
                    Lucy Jane c1870 Moxley Staffordshire
                    Charles William c1877 Aspull Wigan Lancashire

AND FROM HEAR ON IN, EACH GENERATION (5)HAS BEEN CHRISTENED CHARLES

I think you line comes from Thomas 1785, but one thing for certain the Ralph family of Bilston must have been very close, in the 1841 census 3 families all lived next door to each other



Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: RachelK on Wednesday 09 February 05 14:43 GMT (UK)
And finally it clicks! Wow, thankyou Charlie, I understand how it all fits together now. I edited my previous post because I got some details wrong in it!

I'll add this to my tree on GR, which you both have access to anyway. Just wanted to make sure it was all right before I did it, messed it up and had to do it again.

Lovely to have such a big family, but yes sometimes I wish they'd have been a bit more inventive in the naming department. ;D
Title: Re: William Ralph of Bilston
Post by: mandychap on Saturday 16 January 10 12:23 GMT (UK)
I have John Ralph aged 44 in 1904 lived in green lanes Bilston Son of John ralph
he married Naomi Poulston nee Jenks aged 27 daughter of George Jenks