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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: cassarilda on Thursday 25 May 06 07:18 BST (UK)
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Just wondering if there IS a 1901 census for Dublin? is the 1911 out yet?
Im after Albert Victor WARD.
He would be young.
Sorry, cant be of any more help...
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Both Censuses are released, but are not (yet) indexed by name.
Can you suggest a street name where Albert Victor Ward might have lived ? Or any other helpful details ?
Adrian
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nope.. sorry kintree...
I was stabbing in the dark ;)
He is the only person I know of that MAY have been alive at that time...
Oh well... me thinks I should do some more research into census'
Geez its annoying when you dont know anything! ::)
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Let me ask the question another way - what is the evidence for believing that Albert Victor Ward was in Dublin at that time (or indeed at any time) ?
Adrian
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hmmm
me thinks I shouldntve asked in the first place...
My grandmother was born in Dublin... hence why I believe her father was as well.... or at least lived in the area at some point...
sorry, just forget it.. I'll search more when I finally, hopefully, get more information.
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No no, you mustn't give up !!
It's all a question of working from the known to the unknown - but you need to help those who know even less than you. So the next questions are - how do you know your grandmother was born in Dublin, and on what date was she born ? This will establish a known point to start from. Mind you, we still might not be able to help, but at least we'll know why not!!
Adrian
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On my fathers birth certificate, it states that my grandmother was born in Dublin.. the age given (and subsequent birth year) doesnt match her marriage certificate age (which I am more inclined to believe as she had less history at this point)... PLUS, she used to sing Irish songs in the pub to support her children... hence why we believe she was born in Ireland.
Her Birth year is 1920 +/- 1yr (she was 19 when married in 1939)... Hence why I figure her father must have been at least 20yo when she was born.. hence why I think he was born prior to 1900. :)
anything else? Im trying not to include her long and convulted life AFTER 1939... ;)
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OK - so the first thing to look for is a birth index reference for Phoebe May Ward, in Ireland, in the period ending 1923 (women never overestimate their age!).
This should be straightforward: this would not be a common combination of names for any part of Ireland, so the search should produce either a single result, or no result at all.
As it happens, I shall probably be near a microfilm of the birth indexes tomorrow, so I might have the time to check.
Adrian
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:o
Are you serious!!!
Oh if you could, I would love you forever!!!!
Im just about to send off a request for a search to the GRO, but if you could have a look for me that would be FANTASTIC! Then I can order her certificate with more details...
(Ive been putting off sending the request because I was afraid I didnt have enough information)
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Well as it happens I had to go in to Dublin this afternoon after all.
I am afraid I found no index reference for the birth of ANY Phoebe Ward (first name or midle name) in the years 1917 to 1921. (I also checked Warde, and Irish versions of the surname: McWard, McAward & Macaward.)
BUT I wouldn't give up hope: in Thom's Directory for the years 1918 thru 1923 I found 2 persons named Victor Ward - do you happen to know whether Albert Victor was known by his middle name ?
I think one of those Victor Wards probably had the initials VP, so he should go on the back burner. Leaving Victor Ward, 1 Howth View, Ringsend as a possibility.
So there seems some reason to be hopeful, but not much as yet.
Adrian
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Kintree,
Thank you so much for having a look... Its disapointing not to find her, but not wholly unexpected....
I was thinking of it last night and the other possible surname for Phoebe was SHELDON... she wrote Patricia May Sheldon on my fathers birth certificate as her maiden name, although she WAS written as "Phoebe May Phillips (formerly Ward)" on her 1st childs certificate (well.. the first child we know personally)...
She changed her name from Phoebe to Patricia in about 1950 when she went off with my grandfather (did I mention the long convuluted story?)...
Once we found Phoebe's married certificate to Thomas PHILLIPS (and I do have it in my hand at the moment - with maiden name WARD), I started to think that SHELDON was perhaps her mothers maiden name?
hmmm... maybe she wasnt born in Ireland at all? I should have a search for her on the English records...
arrgghh this is so frustrating!
Thankyou for all your help so far!
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OR
She could have been listed as May Phoebe Ward... May was her middle name, that she actually carrying with her consistantly through out her journeys...
Quite often first names are tradition, but they are called by their middle name?
I keep on thinking of different search words.. pity Im not over there, I would love to get my fingers working doing the search..
Did I mention that I appreciate what youre doing kintree? :)
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OK Update:
Since no record could be found of her being born in Ireland, I had a look on the Ancestry database, and found (insert drumroll here)...
1920, Apr/May/June
WARD, Phoebe
mother maiden name: Rouse
District: Wolverhampton
etc
:o
So... maybe her PARENTS were born in Ireland (and possible brother?), and moved to England prior to her being born? Im just about to order the certificate now...
Wolverhampton is right next door to where she was married (Bilston).. so its highly probable...
Next question.. how on earth am I supposed to work out any siblings she had? Where her parents were born and years etc?!
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Cassarilda
Ordering this certificate is just taking pot-luck - you mustn't expect this to be necessarily the right person. I agree that the Irishness of you grandmother is a bit dubious, if the theory is based only on her taking money for singing Irish songs in bars.
Don't rush to conclusions, expect to take a long time building up a full picture.
Adrian
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awwwww... but I can hope a little bit cant I?! ;) its been so long already :D
the Irish theory was not based solely on her singing songs, that was only part of it... there are many letters from my grandfather mentioning she was from ireland, as well as memories from the older children...
As well it was mentioned on a few childrens birth certiticates..
So maybe her parents were irish? anyway. :) We shall see how it all goes. :)