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Research in Other Countries => Canada Lookup Request => Canada => Canada Lookup Requests Completed => Topic started by: andrew shanks on Sunday 21 May 06 22:19 BST (UK)

Title: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: andrew shanks on Sunday 21 May 06 22:19 BST (UK)
Alexander Allan was born in Falkirk in 1899, the son of William Allan and Jessie Wood Neilson.  He emigrated to Canada and married a Margaret Johnston in 1926.  I do not know whether the marriage took place in Scotland or Canada.

His father had previously been married to a Marion Morrison, who died in 1875.  Their son John Allan born 23 Sep 1868 in Camelon, Falkirk emigrated to Dauphin Manitoba Howe, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada and married an Annie Adelaide Burton in 1893.

Did Alexander emigrate to Canada to be with his older half brother John?  I would be very interested to know what became of him and would be very grateful for any assistance with this
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: andrew shanks on Friday 26 May 06 18:25 BST (UK)
Since my earlier posting I have discovered that Alexander Allan was living at the following address in 1934:

533 Clifton St Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

I am interested to know whether he has any descendants.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: Robneve on Wednesday 31 May 06 20:22 BST (UK)
I have checked Scotlands People for a marriage anywhere in Scotland between 1900 & 1930 without sucess, so it would seem they married in Manitoba. This is another from my tree.  I think it  likely that Alexander would go to  where his half brother was because he would have the necessary help in starting a new life. 

I also have a birth certificate for Alexander which shows his birth as 1894.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 01 June 06 15:46 BST (UK)
You will be able to find the marriage on this site...but they are a year or 2
backlogged, so not sure when it may show for you...Have seen a few for 1925
so it is getting closer...J.J.
( p.s. the site has a bit of a bug recently so if no resulkts show, just shut down the program and search again)

http://web2.gov.mb.ca/cca/vital/Query.php

 

Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 01 June 06 15:56 BST (UK)
http://www.dauphin.ca/contactus.php

Dauphin may have someone who can help with your history. Perhaps inquire at above site and see if you can find someone interested in history who can point you in the right direction.  There seems to be no historical society as such...J.J.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: canada twig on Saturday 03 June 06 05:30 BST (UK)
The Dauphin Branch of the Manitoba Genealogical Society has their own website at

http://www.sitescapers.com/Webpages/
and can be contacted at dauphinbranch AT yahoo.ca

They have a number of links on their site to other Manitoba sites and the Manitoba GenWeb includes message boards for the various regions.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: eillo on Saturday 03 June 06 12:06 BST (UK)
Did you see the post about passenger lists to Canada after 1865 (on this board)? Passenger Lists 1925-1935 are indexed and online at ArchiviaNet at
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/02/02011801_e.html

I'd check there for Alexander first.

Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: Robneve on Monday 05 June 06 14:05 BST (UK)
 :)

My thanks to both J.J. and Eillo for two excellent sites.  I searched the Manitoba BDM for Alexander's marriage in 1926 and came  up empty. Perhaps it is because the date is so close to the cut off point (80 Years), I'm not sure. However, when I do it the other way round and search for Margaret Johnston, I get no result. That I do not believe. Perhaps they really are overloaded.

The passenger list did come up with one Alexander Allan with age to match etc., but the date was late in 1926, so if he got married in Canada in 1926, he did not waste time finding a wife !! Unless of course, he met the lady on the ship.

Is there a Brandon Genealogical page?  It seems I should be looking there as well as Winnipeg.

Thanks again to all
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Monday 05 June 06 15:16 BST (UK)
Did you find that John Morrison Allan actually married Annie Adelaide Burton in Brandon, Manitoba?

There are at least a dozen births for Margaret Johnston....but you need more info to know which may be yours... Or maight be miss-spelled and searched for that way...

As I said previously, the site is glitching sometimes, lately, so try more than once when you do try...shut the program down and start it up again when no results turn up...( an easy way to see the glitch is to try margaret "SMITH"...If you get no results you know there's a problem...J.J.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: Robneve on Monday 05 June 06 15:59 BST (UK)
I found James Morrison Allan with no difficulty. He married Annie Adelaide Burton in Brandon on Jan 25, 1893.

I can see what you mean about the site's problems. However I did a marriage search for just  Magaret  Johnston after 1925.  I got dozens of them but none married an Alexander Allan. I also tried  ALLEN  and  JOHNSTONE with no luck.

Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Tuesday 06 June 06 01:02 BST (UK)
On the 1911 there are 3 versions of Margaret in Brandon...
Margaret....Margret...and Maggie...Have you any other information
on her? On the 1901 there is also...Margrett...Margie...Margerette

This database is rather rigid in that spelling needs to be exact, I'm afraid...
So you may need to try those again sometime...I can't get the same results
 for 1926 that you did...so glitch still there...Have reported it twice...
It will search the name Allan with her first name ...best to write and see if
they have completed your year...
Good luck!  J.J.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: Robneve on Wednesday 07 June 06 19:42 BST (UK)
 Thanks for the help J.J.  I did think about spelling variations but was unsure about the variety, so I did it the hard way !!  I just looked for Johnston, then Johnstone. That took a "few minutes" as you might imagine but still no success.  Perhaps my mind is too regimented, but when a search engine allows a search   AFTER  a given date, I do not expect it to go back 20 / 40 years with answers.  In any event, I have, as suggested , asked nicely for their help. I will let you all know the outcome.

Rob
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: Robneve on Thursday 08 June 06 20:41 BST (UK)
 I got a faster response than expected from Vital Statistics.

 Their advice is that my difficulty is probably due to a variation in surname spelling!!! ::)

 I guess I will wait  for a few weeks and try again.
 Rob.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 08 June 06 23:39 BST (UK)
Nah...that site has been used by us a million times and always gave results...
Must be someone new at the wheel, I'd guess...Hopefully one of their techies
figures it out one of these days....

Did they say that 1926 was completed, though?  J.J.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 29 November 06 04:46 GMT (UK)
I found something with John and Annie! They also are in Elton on this online list of Stockmen!  http://www.smflibrary.ca/community.html

http://www.smflibrary.ca/communitya.html
Allan, John M. & Annie from Elton Municipality, MB
apparently they have some family histories on some of those that are listed...so contact them and fingers crossed!!!!!  J.J.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: Robneve on Wednesday 29 November 06 14:35 GMT (UK)

  J.J.   You're the greatest!! 

 I had never thought of such an organization. I always thought of Manitoba / Saskatchewan as being wheat country and cattle in Alberta only.

 I have sent off a request for all the ifo. they have on John & Annie.

  I'll let you know how it works out.

 Thanks again,

 Cheers,

 Rob. :)
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 29 November 06 16:07 GMT (UK)
Oh, goodness no, there are cattle farmers right across the Prairies...He may have been grain farming and also raising cattle...not unusual...Some farmers juggle produce as well...Depending what the market is like...
Cattle has not been the way to go these days with all the problems with the world market, though...
I do hope they have something on your family. Let us know... :D J.J.

Some reading for you when you have time to peruse:
http://www.umanitoba.ca/afs/agric_economics/info/MB's%20Agriculture%20in%20Transition%202001.pdf
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 29 November 06 16:12 GMT (UK)
I wonder if there is any information available here:
http://www.mts.net/~agrifame/histormb.html
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: Robneve on Wednesday 29 November 06 16:32 GMT (UK)
Thank you once again J.J.  I have printed out the agriculture document to read later.

At first glance, I do not see anyone in the hall of fame but I need to look more carefully.

I also just remembered that my wife had an uncle or grand uncle who travelled to Western Canada by covered wagon, so that is another one for the Cattleman,s site.

I have a lot to learn about Canadian agriculture. From your description, it sounds a bit like Scotland. Almost all farms were rented, but there would be a mixture of cattle/crops in the lowlands. Up north, it was mostly sheep. My wifes father and his ancestors were sheep farmers in Glen Etive which is near Glencoe. There were hens for eggs and one cow for milk for the family.

Rob.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 29 November 06 16:55 GMT (UK)
My parents started out as farmers, so as children we all helped on the farm in summer.....& as a teen I got a real taste of it one full summer ...Hard work and long hours...2.00 a day for 2 months-and a quart oif cream for a bonus... ( they called it room and board, but I believe it was child labour while the woman of the home went off from dawn 'til dusk selling something or other...needed to get away from the litle ones is my guess)
I had to look after 2 children, start the day by cleaning the cream seperator ( dozens of discs) feed the husband and all his farm hands ( I could barely cook ) Take out the slop pails, do the laundry, get the cows from pasture...I had huge muscles, not too feminine!
 
The thing about our farms is that they are all miles apart, something that is usually commented on, as one can drive for hours before the next farm is in sight...& I'll bet your farms look nothing like ours do right now under all this snow :D J.J.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: Robneve on Wednesday 29 November 06 19:30 GMT (UK)
Hi  J.J.

I thought you might like this. I'm not sure about size limitations so I'm going to send two separate messages.  This photgraph is Pirleyhill Farm where Alexander and John Allan were born.  This particlar photograph was taken in 2005 by an amateur genealogist in Falkirk who has also helped a great deal.

Cheers,
Rob.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: Robneve on Wednesday 29 November 06 19:46 GMT (UK)
Hi J.J.

This is Tamfourhill Farm. The photgraph was taken in the early 60's and came from the Falkirk Museum.

This farm was in the Allan family from about 1740 to 1893. It is about 7/8 miles from Pirleyhill Farm.  Alexander and John must have been fascinated by the distances when they came to Canada.  I know I was!!

Rob.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 29 November 06 20:24 GMT (UK)
Hey, kiddo...what wonderful photos....beautiful countryside...shall reciprocate with
some snowbound photos...City gal now, so not very rangey...
When you put photos on rootschat, try to keep them about 500 to 600 pixels
wide..( less than 6" wide if you have meas. in your image. You can see that it
stretches the whole page out, otherwise... ;)

Very glad that I found the Stockman's entry... as I found some information on
Elton in Nos racine...! John & Annie are in there...with quite an extensive
history...You will be pleased, as the daughter's husband's names are all in there!
YAY!  Interestingly enough, you'll see that there was a racetrack on the property...
and they are talking about building a racetrack in the r.m. of Elton...how exciting!
http://www.nosracines.ca/e/page.aspx?id=517682

( Elton is a rural area just outside of Brandon...so he never was in Dauphin...! )
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 29 November 06 20:32 GMT (UK)
Now we can see why the sites varied in the range, meridian thing...by the
1906 census, (as Allen) he would have been in his very own home, on his
own property...A lot of work in those days!!!  I think you have the land
 information, right? Wish we could find something like this for Alexander... :D J.J.
 
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: Robneve on Wednesday 29 November 06 21:18 GMT (UK)
Wow.  As in  FANTASTIC.  Now I have to get my butt out there soon. But not until Summer. I also just remembered that when I was travelling Canada regularly ( early / mid 80's) I was once treated to Dinner at the Cattleman's Club in Winnipeg. Is it still there? If I had remembered that, I would not have been confused about farming on the prairies!!

Is it possible for you to get the full postal address for the  Thornton that the book says is still living there?

 I do have the land information but I,m having a hard time getting my head round all those numbers.

I will also try and watch the photograph thing. I always have some difficulty, but I am learning. My program tells me that the Tamfourhill Farm photograph is 5.18  X  3.17 inches and is 343.00 KB so I was sure it would be O.K. It doesn't look stretched at this end.  Having said that, I will make them smaller next time.

Did I also tell you that John was the only child out of 5 who lived past 2 years?  Alexander was from the second marriage. Two children died the same day. Yet another 3 days later. Three of them were 2years old, two were six months (twins)  Little wonder John left home!!  He was the eldest.

Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 30 November 06 03:38 GMT (UK)
I had a reply ready to post and it went South!!! arghh...here we go again...
The publication is likely an older one...didn't make note of the date will
have to go back to see when it was written
http://findaperson.canada411.ca/ has 2 ....J. Thorntons, both are in Brandon...
Not unusual for farmers to retire to town or the area they were in may have
been absorbed by the city....


I peeked back at the 1901 census and the Allans were listed in Brandon/Elton... ::)

On the 1906 the area is given as
Section 7, Township 11, Range 18,  Meridian W

Live Stock - as listed on the 1906 census
Column 14 -  Horses, All Ages - he had 12
Column 15 -  Milk cows - he had 7
Column 16 -  Other horned or neat cattle, all ages - He had 7
Column 17 -  Sheep and lambs, all ages - none
Column 18 -  Hogs and pigs, all ages- He had 8

Use the split screen feature to see the extra information on all censuses...
http://automatedgenealogy.com
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 30 November 06 03:45 GMT (UK)
http://www.ourroots.ca/e/toc.aspx?id=2482  You may want to read more about Elton in the publication...It was produced in 1973. J.J.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 30 November 06 15:31 GMT (UK)
Hi, coonwarra
  Sorry that we've hijacked your query...Looked for the old request and found this one...Not to worry, as we are still trying our best to also look for info on Alexander, but he was here into the century which is much harder to trace...J.J.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: Robneve on Thursday 30 November 06 19:49 GMT (UK)
 I'm sure Coonwarra will not be dis-pleased in any way.

We are cousins and work together on a number of projects. Everything I uncover is relayed back, and one or two other distant relatives

As I am retired, I have more time available, hence the long discourse by me on Coonwarra's post.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: andrew shanks on Thursday 30 November 06 23:04 GMT (UK)
I have been following all of this with great interest, so please do carry on!

 :)
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Friday 01 December 06 04:31 GMT (UK)
Hi you 2...Here's the site I found with the proposed racetrack...Wonder if any rellies still are into horses... http://www.bym.ca/news.asp?ID=5
Too bad the next census didn't show agricultural situations as it would have
been interesting to see how many more animals John would have acquired...
J.J.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: Robneve on Friday 01 December 06 13:55 GMT (UK)
I wonder what John and Annie would have thought of this.  Probably quite happy if they could have sold their land for this purpose for this kind of cash !!

Thanks for the census info.  Once again I was surprised. First, a Scottish census does not give this much detail. All I know about Tamfourhill is that it was 230 acres of arable farm.  Even a will just lumps everything together and is described as "livestock, crops in the field, implements", etc., so there is no real sense of how big the place was. I had expected John's place to be much larger but had forgotten about "Homesteads"

The "snail mail" will go out today. I hope it produces a result.

Rob.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Friday 01 December 06 18:24 GMT (UK)
I imagine that you have found John on the 1901 and the 1911 also, ...don't forget to look at the actual images more more information...although not as extensive, it does have more. The 1906 was for the Prairie Provinces only.... It will be interesting to find which was his largest stock, as that census showed a small amount of everything.   We have a lady in Ontario whose husband's ancestors were really big horsemen in Brandon...
 I imagine your newfound rellies will fill you in on many things. Perhaps they even know something of his young brother... J.J.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: Robneve on Friday 01 December 06 19:52 GMT (UK)
Thanks again J.J.

In the words of the famous movie   "This could be the start of something  big"   ;D

Alexander had a sister who went to Australia when she was in her early twenties. I am in touch with one of her descendants and she is ecstatic about what you have found.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Friday 08 December 06 03:31 GMT (UK)
Well done with the photos, Rob...they look just as stunning and no scrolling to view! Just showed my hubby the lovely landscape...J.J.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: quizmaster on Friday 08 December 06 09:06 GMT (UK)
Am intrigued by Coonwarra's surnames as my wife is an Allan and her mother a Black and they are from the Falkirk area, although the Blacks were originally from Argyll. Any connection perhaps?
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: andrew shanks on Friday 08 December 06 18:08 GMT (UK)
Hi Quizmaster

I doubt whether there is any connection between our Black families - mine were from Ayrshire.

However, any info on Allans from the Falkirk area is of great interest to both myself and Robneve as there could well be a link somewhere.  Robneve and I are in regular contact 'off-board', so please feel free to PM me with any details that you may have on your wife's Allans and we will see whether we can make a connection.

 :)

Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Friday 15 December 06 03:19 GMT (UK)
Okeydoke, fellows...Here's what I have on your man...He did n't give his product information, and only mentioned his employer on one that I saw, but here's the approximate dates he was entered in the Winnipeg Henderson directory:


Checked 1922, 1926 and 1929 and didn't find him unless he was miss spelled...so I skipped again to 1932 and found an Alec C...no occupation given, living at 533 Clifton...
So just in case I checked the 1931 and it was indeed an Alex C. living there...a travelling salesman! went back one more..and in 1930 he gave employers name as W.W. Shaw Co. Wish I could tell you where this was?? 
anyhoo...
1935 1937 & 1938 down as traveller...( 1838 says he's Alex A.)
Nothing in the 1939 or 1940 listings...double checked with the 1939 and 1940 phone books and not listed, so we know he was here, but that's about it...

hope this helps a bit...J.J.
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: Robneve on Friday 15 December 06 15:41 GMT (UK)
Thank you once again J.J.  This is just getting better all the time. I absolutely must get myself out there in early summer.  If it is still recognizable, I want to get a photograph of John's  farm and find the grave of John & Annie. After New Year, would it be possible for you to tell me how to find the farm on a map? I also want to find where they were buried.

As for Alexander, this is a a great help. Coonwarra already mentioned Clifton Street, but now I have confirmation, and also the employer which I can chase up from here.

Is there a way to find out who was a teacher in what school in this area?  That would be the means to find out more about Annie assuming she continued as a teacher after marriage.

Cheers,
Rob

 :) :)
Title: Re: Allan family - Falkirk, Scotland to Canada
Post by: J.J. on Sunday 13 July 08 01:46 BST (UK)
Have now posted on another thread that Alexander Christie Allan & Margaret Laura Johnston were married in Dauphin 1926!
Rob has recently visited Manitoba to see first hand sites of family history.
J.J.